Domingo Santana - round 2

[pacopete4]

@HighHeat9Teen

3h3 hours ago

 

Boston has been keeping tabs on Santana. Boston wants to be notified before any trade involving Santana to another team. Santana's inquiring suitors since Nov. have been Boston, Cleveland, Oakland, Detroit, Tampa, Texas and Washington. In no particular order.

 

I thought this was a good tweet to bring here because it might spurn more discussion on possible trades for Santana. It is interesting to see that Boston wants to be notified before moving him, maybe that will drive up the price for him. It is also interesting seeing Texas and Washington (Gio?!?!) on that list.

[MVP2110]

What could Boston offer as far as prospects or pitching?

[mlloyd10]

Chavis?

[KeithStone53151]

What could Boston offer as far as prospects or pitching?

 

Groome is probably their top prospect. I would also target Mata in a trade even though as of 2017 he wasn't highly ranked, he's very young. If going to Boston for prospects, I would specifically target those 2 guys as the headliners in the package.

[jackailius]

To me it is difficult to come up with a simple trade that makes sense regarding Santana because what we are hoping for back from the trade is top flight pitching and no team has so much pitching they are going to give up a #1/#2 and we are already full of high floor, lower ceiling players. How about we try a fun 3 team trade idea:

 

Dbacks get Santana (Brewers)

Brewers get Fulmer (Tigers), flier prospect(Dbacks)

Tigers get Dupolantier (dbacks), Clarke (dbacks), Ortiz (brewers), Ray (Brewers), Peralta(Brewers)

 

The Dbacks get their low salary replacement for JD and while they give up 2 of their top 3 plus a flier, really it is only 1 top 100.

 

The Brewers get their top flight SP who is controlled for 4 years, hasn't reached arbitration yet and keep Burnes, Huira, Philips but give up a lot of value as well both in a proven bat as well as prospect value.

 

The Tigers give up their top flight starter but get back 3 projectable pitching prospects, a work in progress former blue chip of prospect as a work in progress and a pitcher who projects to be a back end rp/closer.

 

Reasonable give for each? Too much? Too Little?

[Brew Crew Buster]

Eduardo Rodriguez from Boston would fit the Archer mold for team control for the next few years.

 

It may take a bit more than Santana but Santana would fill a bosox need chheply so the could then sign one of the pitchers remaining.

[KeithStone53151]

To me it is difficult to come up with a simple trade that makes sense regarding Santana because what we are hoping for back from the trade is top flight pitching and no team has so much pitching they are going to give up a #1/#2 and we are already full of high floor, lower ceiling players. How about we try a fun 3 team trade idea:

 

Dbacks get Santana (Brewers)

Brewers get Fulmer (Tigers), flier prospect(Dbacks)

Tigers get Dupolantier (dbacks), Clarke (dbacks), Ortiz (brewers), Ray (Brewers), Peralta(Brewers)

 

The Dbacks get their low salary replacement for JD and while they give up 2 of their top 3 plus a flier, really it is only 1 top 100.

 

The Brewers get their top flight SP who is controlled for 4 years, hasn't reached arbitration yet and keep Burnes, Huira, Philips but give up a lot of value as well both in a proven bat as well as prospect value.

 

The Tigers give up their top flight starter but get back 3 projectable pitching prospects, a work in progress former blue chip of prospect as a work in progress and a pitcher who projects to be a back end rp/closer.

 

Reasonable give for each? Too much? Too Little?

 

This isn't a terrible deal for any team. I admittedly don't know much about the 2 diamondbacks prospects, I would hope at least one is top 50 overall prospects. If so, I'd be on board. From a Brewers perspective, I'd be happy to get a guy like Fulmer for that return.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Eduardo Rodriguez from Boston would fit the Archer mold for team control for the next few years.

 

It may take a bit more than Santana but Santana would fill a bosox need chheply so the could then sign one of the pitchers remaining.

 

Rodriguez had knee surgery after the season, and is predicted to miss the first month of the year at least. I like his talent, but that scares me.

 

The Red Sox farm system is pretty barren, though. Rodriguez is about the only name that makes sense. They have a few nice prospect pitchers, but most are 20 or younger, and years away from MLB relevance. Not necessarily a bad thing, bit I personally would like to see Santana flipped for pitching that can help the MLB squad this year.

[pacopete4]

Eduardo Rodriguez from Boston would fit the Archer mold for team control for the next few years.

 

It may take a bit more than Santana but Santana would fill a bosox need chheply so the could then sign one of the pitchers remaining.

 

Rodriguez had knee surgery after the season, and is predicted to miss the first month of the year at least. I like his talent, but that scares me.

 

The Red Sox farm system is pretty barren, though. Rodriguez is about the only name that makes sense. They have a few nice prospect pitchers, but most are 20 or younger, and years away from MLB relevance. Not necessarily a bad thing, bit I personally would like to see Santana flipped for pitching that can help the MLB squad this year.

 

Yep, Rodriguez is the only guy that makes sense for the Brewers to me. Problem is the knee. Hard to make a trade for someone coming off knee surgery.

 

I have also wanted to pry away Blake Swihart for a while now. He would be a good upgrade over Vogt from the left side of the plate as long as the Brewers feel as though he can hack it defensively (not that Vogt is anything to write home about)

[ougiqbxy]

To me it is difficult to come up with a simple trade that makes sense regarding Santana because what we are hoping for back from the trade is top flight pitching and no team has so much pitching they are going to give up a #1/#2 and we are already full of high floor, lower ceiling players. How about we try a fun 3 team trade idea:

 

Dbacks get Santana (Brewers)

Brewers get Fulmer (Tigers), flier prospect(Dbacks)

Tigers get Dupolantier (dbacks), Clarke (dbacks), Ortiz (brewers), Ray (Brewers), Peralta(Brewers)

 

The Dbacks get their low salary replacement for JD and while they give up 2 of their top 3 plus a flier, really it is only 1 top 100.

 

The Brewers get their top flight SP who is controlled for 4 years, hasn't reached arbitration yet and keep Burnes, Huira, Philips but give up a lot of value as well both in a proven bat as well as prospect value.

 

The Tigers give up their top flight starter but get back 3 projectable pitching prospects, a work in progress former blue chip of prospect as a work in progress and a pitcher who projects to be a back end rp/closer.

 

Reasonable give for each? Too much? Too Little?

 

+1 Looks good to me. I rate Duplantier pretty darned highly so Tigers get the value needed. Everyone in this proposal gets a need.

[bill hAll Star]

I have also wanted to pry away Blake Swihart for a while now. He would be a good upgrade over Vogt from the left side of the plate as long as the Brewers feel as though he can hack it defensively (not that Vogt is anything to write home about)

 

I don't argue to have a large scouting report on Swihart beyond knowing his previous high prospect rating and so far uninspiring major league career, but is there any tangible stat or scouting report that suggests that he's an upgrade over a "pretty good" LH hitting catcher? I'm not sure about Vogt's place on the team basically as a platoon catcher, but he's probably an .800 OPS guy in Miller Park facing mostly RHP.

[pacopete4]

I have also wanted to pry away Blake Swihart for a while now. He would be a good upgrade over Vogt from the left side of the plate as long as the Brewers feel as though he can hack it defensively (not that Vogt is anything to write home about)

 

I don't argue to have a large scouting report on Swihart beyond knowing his previous high prospect rating and so far uninspiring major league career, but is there any tangible stat or scouting report that suggests that he's an upgrade over a "pretty good" LH hitting catcher? I'm not sure about Vogt's place on the team basically as a platoon catcher, but he's probably an .800 OPS guy in Miller Park facing mostly RHP.

 

I don't believe that Vogt will be an .800 OPS guy going forward. His career numbers against RHP indicate that he'll be about a mid .700's OPS guy. I think Swihart could replicate that plus give us even more defensive flexibility. Swihart can play C, OF, and 1B. He's also been rumored to have been working on 2B as well. He is out of options this spring so it will be interesting if he makes the Sox team. If he doesn't he'd be a nice pickup for our bench. I would even be okay with having Vogt as well as Swihart on the team. Flexibility is such a great thing to have. Aguilar would be expendable since Braun could be at first vs LHP and Aguilar cannot play any other place.

[bill hAll Star]

I have also wanted to pry away Blake Swihart for a while now. He would be a good upgrade over Vogt from the left side of the plate as long as the Brewers feel as though he can hack it defensively (not that Vogt is anything to write home about)

 

I don't argue to have a large scouting report on Swihart beyond knowing his previous high prospect rating and so far uninspiring major league career, but is there any tangible stat or scouting report that suggests that he's an upgrade over a "pretty good" LH hitting catcher? I'm not sure about Vogt's place on the team basically as a platoon catcher, but he's probably an .800 OPS guy in Miller Park facing mostly RHP.

 

I don't believe that Vogt will be an .800 OPS guy going forward. His career numbers against RHP indicate that he'll be about a mid .700's OPS guy. I think Swihart could replicate that plus give us even more defensive flexibility. Swihart can play C, OF, and 1B. He's also been rumored to have been working on 2B as well. He is out of options this spring so it will be interesting if he makes the Sox team. If he doesn't he'd be a nice pickup for our bench.

 

Vogt was always much better on the road while in Oakland. His slugging was very low in home games. It's possible that he regresses and that he's getting older, but he OPSed about .800 with the Brewers last year. Unless he starts regressing due to age, I would expect he's an .800 OPS guy now that he's playing half of his games in Miller Park.

 

Vogt came into the minors at a much later age, but he out-hit Swihart at every level. I don't doubt that Swihart could be a nice buy low option, but I'll believe it when I see it. I wouldn't mind the Brewers bringing him in if they believed in that premise, but if I was betting on 2018 performance hitting the baseball, I'm taking Vogt.

[pacopete4]

 

Vogt came into the minors at a much later age, but he out-hit Swihart at every level. I don't doubt that Swihart could be a nice buy low option, but I'll believe it when I see it. I wouldn't mind the Brewers bringing him in if they believed in that premise, but if I was betting on 2018 performance hitting the baseball, I'm taking Vogt.

 

So you are going to use minor league stats against Swihart but not even mention that Vogt (made the majors at 27) was older than the competition at just about every level and Swihart (majors at 23) was young at every level for the competition? Swihart will bet 26 during this season. Vogt hadn't sniffed the bigs yet by this age. Swihart has been jacked around pretty much his entire career. Also, Vogt can't make a throw to second base.

[bill hAll Star]

 

Vogt came into the minors at a much later age, but he out-hit Swihart at every level. I don't doubt that Swihart could be a nice buy low option, but I'll believe it when I see it. I wouldn't mind the Brewers bringing him in if they believed in that premise, but if I was betting on 2018 performance hitting the baseball, I'm taking Vogt.

 

So you are going to use minor league stats against Swihart but not even mention that Vogt (made the majors at 27) was older than the competition at just about every level and Swihart (majors at 23) was young at every level for the competition? Swihart will bet 26 during this season. Vogt hadn't sniffed the bigs yet by this age. Swihart has been jacked around pretty much his entire career. Also, Vogt can't make a throw to second base.

 

Right, that's why I'm intrigued by Swihart. I wouldn't wager Swihart being a better hitter this year from the LH side of the plate, yet, though.

 

I really didn't address defense at all. Vogt is really bad there so I'm assuming Swihart would be better.

[brewcrewdue80]

To me it is difficult to come up with a simple trade that makes sense regarding Santana because what we are hoping for back from the trade is top flight pitching and no team has so much pitching they are going to give up a #1/#2 and we are already full of high floor, lower ceiling players. How about we try a fun 3 team trade idea:

 

Dbacks get Santana (Brewers)

Brewers get Fulmer (Tigers), flier prospect(Dbacks)

Tigers get Dupolantier (dbacks), Clarke (dbacks), Ortiz (brewers), Ray (Brewers), Peralta(Brewers)

 

The Dbacks get their low salary replacement for JD and while they give up 2 of their top 3 plus a flier, really it is only 1 top 100.

 

The Brewers get their top flight SP who is controlled for 4 years, hasn't reached arbitration yet and keep Burnes, Huira, Philips but give up a lot of value as well both in a proven bat as well as prospect value.

 

The Tigers give up their top flight starter but get back 3 projectable pitching prospects, a work in progress former blue chip of prospect as a work in progress and a pitcher who projects to be a back end rp/closer.

 

Reasonable give for each? Too much? Too Little?

 

Another Brewers disaster trade idea. We get Fulmer and a Flier? For Studly Santana, oh and top ten prospects Ortiz, Peralta, and toolsy 1st rd pick Ray? I'd take Duplantier and Clarke from Arizona for Santana. Yes Fulmer adds to this team, but you're adding Ortiz and Peralta with Ray.

 

As of now, that would be something like Santana-our #4 and 5 prospects and flier

Detroit-Fulmer

Arz-#2 and 3 prospects and flier(top 10?)

 

Just feel we are giving too much when we are trading a bat and ML performer like Santana. Clarke could be added to the rotation for '18 with a preview of his talents before deadline or Nelson return. Meanwhile you still have the better SP prospect Duplantier to come up or use in a trade when that comes.

 

I think if we got Clarke back with Fulmer and the flier went to Detroit that would work.

[mattyo]

If we can get Fulmer without giving up Burnes and Hiura, then yes, I would do it. That package is not crazy in the least.

[nate82]

I still think the Braves are a better match for Santana than any other team out there. I don't think the Braves would do a 1 for 1 of Teheran for Santana but I wonder if they would part with Soroka or Wentz for Santana. The Brewers might have to add in something else to the deal but the Braves have an over abundance of pitching prospects. Santana also fits for the Braves moving forward as he would replace Markakis in LF with Acuna taking over in RF by mid May or June. An OF with Inciarte, Santana, and Acuna isn't all that bad for the Braves moving forward. Acuna and Santana may strike out a lot but that is a lot of power in the two corner OF spots. You are possibly looking at two 30+ HR guys in LF and RF with Freeman at 1B.

 

The Braves also don't have to trade away all of their pitching depth in this move as it allows them to keep Gohara, Teheran, Newcomb, Sims, Wright, Allard, Anderson, and one of Soroka or Wentz. The Braves still have a few more guys who had TJ surgery last year who will be returning who have some upside also. The Braves farm system right now is stacked with pitching prospects.

 

Soroka maybe the one pitcher the Braves give up as he doesn't have as high of an upside as Gohara, Wright, Allard, and Anderson have. Soroka does have elite command of his pitches though none of his pitches grade out any higher than above average but his control and command of the strike zone is elite. I am not sure Atlanta will part with Soroka but of the top 5 pitching prospects that they have he has the lowest ceiling of them all but also the highest floor. Stuff wise Soroka is probably a #2 best case scenario but is more than likely a #3 type pitcher.

[mlloyd10]

Santana/Woodruff for Duffy/merrifield

[Oldcity]

If that KC deal was coupled with a Cobb signing, I think I'd be on board.

[brewcrewdue80]

Santana/Woodruff for Duffy/merrifield

 

You have to consider Duffy's 15mil per salary for 4 years. Merrifield has a .736 OPS career for minors, that bat is light and he's 29.

 

Kansas City would be lucky to rid that contract with Merrifield for Santana alone. Woodruff inclusion is over the top.

 

If you are paying 4/60mil for Duffy then just sign Cobb keep Santana and Woodruff. Merrifield at 2b is questionable of an upgrade over Sogard/Villar/Perez trio usage there. If it is it is miniscule and not worth including Woodruff to get him if Santana alone isn't enough to make this happen. Send them Villar since you are removing his playing time completely but never Woodruff.

[chris10809]

Santana/Woodruff for Duffy/merrifield

 

You have to consider Duffy's 15mil per salary for 4 years. Merrifield has a .736 OPS career for minors, that bat is light and he's 29.

 

Kansas City would be lucky to rid that contract with Merrifield for Santana alone. Woodruff inclusion is over the top.

 

If you are paying 4/60mil for Duffy then just sign Cobb keep Santana and Woodruff. Merrifield at 2b is questionable of an upgrade over Sogard/Villar/Perez trio usage there. If it is it is miniscule and not worth including Woodruff to get him if Santana alone isn't enough to make this happen. Send them Villar since you are removing his playing time completely but never Woodruff.

 

Or do both?

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Thames

Pina

Arcia

Villar/Sogard

 

 

Duffy

Anderson

Cobb

Davies

Chacin/Nelson when he returns

 

Knebel

Barnes

Logan

Guerra

Jeffries

Hader

Albers

Wilkerson

 

Look at that potential starting 5 if Nelson returns and is true to form!!

 

- this obviously wouldn't happen but it's nice to think about

[coolhandluke121]

If we can get Fulmer without giving up Burnes and Hiura, then yes, I would do it. That package is not crazy in the least.

 

I agree. I wouldn't do it, but it's not terrible.

[monty57]

Santana/Woodruff for Duffy/merrifield

 

You have to consider Duffy's 15mil per salary for 4 years. Merrifield has a .736 OPS career for minors, that bat is light and he's 29.

 

Kansas City would be lucky to rid that contract with Merrifield for Santana alone. Woodruff inclusion is over the top.

 

If you are paying 4/60mil for Duffy then just sign Cobb keep Santana and Woodruff. Merrifield at 2b is questionable of an upgrade over Sogard/Villar/Perez trio usage there. If it is it is miniscule and not worth including Woodruff to get him if Santana alone isn't enough to make this happen. Send them Villar since you are removing his playing time completely but never Woodruff.

 

I agree. Duffy's 29 and signed for 4 years at roughly $15M per year so he'd be a nice guy to get, but if we trade away Woodruff then we're still stuck with a rotation spot that needs to be filled. I'm not sure that we could/should get both Duffy and Cobb at around $15M each, so if we make a trade centering around Santana-for-Duffy, I wouldn't include one of our MLB pitchers in the deal.

 

I'd rather have Duffy than Cobb, but Cobb "only" costs money, while Duffy costs money and whatever we give up in trade. Tough call as to which is the better option. If it's pretty much Santana for Duffy straight up, I'd probably go that route as Duffy is a safer bet than Cobb, who might not regain what he once was. That and we can't play six outfielders at a time, so Santana is expendable.

 

If I'm wrong and we have enough payroll room going forward to get both Duffy and Cobb, then make the deals. I'd rather pay $30M/year to the combination of Duffy (29 years old) and Cobb (30) for the next four years than $20M+/year to Arrieta (32) for the next five or six years. But that $30M in addition to the other contracts we have on the books would give us 10 players making around $100M in 2019. Throw in Nelson and Knebel in their second year of arby, and I think it would be tough for the Brewers to pay for a full 25-man roster.

[jonescm128]

Does Boston signing Nunez take them out of the running for Martinez? Maybe this opens something up for a Domingo trade to Boston. However, I am not sure they have the assets to send back.