Serviceable Catcher

[anglotiger]

Nope, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to consider how valuable Pina really is to the teams we have been connected to. He may have more value to the Brewers than anyone else we would theoretically be engaged with.

 

Well, Mejia started in AA last season, and I think he hasn't played in AAA, so they might expect him to start the season in AAA. Pina seems like an upgrade over what Cleveland have on the roster, so in a trade for Salazar and Kipnis (as an example) I could easily see them viewing Pina as a nice, cheap stopgap (and upgrade) for a year and insurance in case Mejia doesn't stick at catcher.

[82brewcrew82]

Nope, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to consider how valuable Pina really is to the teams we have been connected to. He may have more value to the Brewers than anyone else we would theoretically be engaged with.

 

Well, Mejia started in AA last season, and I think he hasn't played in AAA, so they might expect him to start the season in AAA. Pina seems like an upgrade over what Cleveland have on the roster, so in a trade for Salazar and Kipnis (as an example) I could easily see them viewing Pina as a nice, cheap stopgap (and upgrade) for a year and insurance in case Mejia doesn't stick at catcher.

I think Pina is a pretty close clone of exactly what Cleveland has at catcher. They don't hit a ton but they are pretty well respected defensively which is pretty much what I expect of Pina moving forward. I may be wrong but I don't think there is any question about whether Mejia can stick at catcher. He is a pretty tremendous all around prospect. Which begs the question, given you think the catching situation is rough in Cleveland, why they would give up on that even if he is a year out?

[MadThinker88]

Nope, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to consider how valuable Pina really is to the teams we have been connected to. He may have more value to the Brewers than anyone else we would theoretically be engaged with.

 

Well, Mejia started in AA last season, and I think he hasn't played in AAA, so they might expect him to start the season in AAA. Pina seems like an upgrade over what Cleveland have on the roster, so in a trade for Salazar and Kipnis (as an example) I could easily see them viewing Pina as a nice, cheap stopgap (and upgrade) for a year and insurance in case Mejia doesn't stick at catcher.

 

No. Pina not sought after or needed in Cleveland (even if Mejia was dealt). Both Gomes & Perez have multi yr contracts with control (or options) for another 3 to 5 seasons each.

 

Mejia & Eric Haase both started last season in AA. Mejia got a Sept call up since he was already on the 40 man. Haase got a week or so in AAA. Haase was added to the 40 man in October so he wasn't lost in minor league free agency or the R5 draft. Hitting 27 bombs from the C/ DH role (when Mejia caught) will tend to make someone stand out in AA. Unless a move if made, the pair likely splits time in AAA during 2018. Having Mejia learn another spot helps to get his bat into the lineup beyond just catching or DH.

[anglotiger]

Nope, you are absolutely correct. I was just trying to consider how valuable Pina really is to the teams we have been connected to. He may have more value to the Brewers than anyone else we would theoretically be engaged with.

 

Well, Mejia started in AA last season, and I think he hasn't played in AAA, so they might expect him to start the season in AAA. Pina seems like an upgrade over what Cleveland have on the roster, so in a trade for Salazar and Kipnis (as an example) I could easily see them viewing Pina as a nice, cheap stopgap (and upgrade) for a year and insurance in case Mejia doesn't stick at catcher.

 

No. Pina not sought after or needed in Cleveland (even if Mejia was dealt). Both Gomes & Perez have multi yr contracts with control (or options) for another 3 to 5 seasons each.

 

Mejia & Eric Haase both started last season in AA. Mejia got a Sept call up since he was already on the 40 man. Haase got a week or so in AAA. Haase was added to the 40 man in October so he wasn't lost in minor league free agency or the R5 draft. Hitting 27 bombs from the C/ DH role (when Mejia caught) will tend to make someone stand out in AA. Unless a move if made, the pair likely splits time in AAA during 2018. Having Mejia learn another spot helps to get his bat into the lineup beyond just catching or DH.

 

That's fine - I defer to you in terms of knowledge of Cleveland players. I was just using them as an example. My original thought still makes sense to me though - having thought enough of Vogt to quickly sign him to a two-year deal, the most obvious reason (to me) for the Brewers to be searching for a "serviceable catcher" is that one of Pina, Vogt or Bandy (I could barely add him without laughing) might be potentially outbound in a trade.

[MadThinker88]

Anglo,

I hear what you are saying and for another team, Pina (or others) might make some sense.

Cleveland isn't that team (for a catcher coming back or a reunion w/ Jesus Aguilar or a INF like Villar or Perez).

 

I feel half the fun in trying to think up a trade is finding that other club that could be a match. Its part of the reason I have bookmarks with RosterResource & BaseballReference...

[82brewcrew82]

That's fine - I defer to you in terms of knowledge of Cleveland players. I was just using them as an example. My original thought still makes sense to me though - having thought enough of Vogt to quickly sign him to a two-year deal, the most obvious reason (to me) for the Brewers to be searching for a "serviceable catcher" is that one of Pina, Vogt or Bandy (I could barely add him without laughing) might be potentially outbound in a trade.

I wouldn't take my word for it about the Cleveland players. Someone will correct if I'm wrong there. If the assumption is that they are, in fact, looking for a serviceable catcher, my guess is that they would be trying to replace Vogt. I am not of the opinion that they are, in fact, searching for a serviceable catcher...........yet.

[ougiqbxy]

I think we can agree that Vogt is pretty expendable. Analytics say he was the worst defensive catcher in the majors last year. Besides popping a home run here and there he really has no value...

 

So, what if the search for a "serviceable" catcher is one that Yu Darvish would want to work with? We then sign him to a minor league contract since we need upper Minors depth anyways, and if Darvish signs, this person would be our backup catcher to catch Darvish instead of Vogt. Probably would be better defensively anyways.

 

Just a thought.

[82brewcrew82]

I think we can agree that Vogt is pretty expendable. Analytics say he was the worst defensive catcher in the majors last year. Besides popping a home run here and there he really has no value...

 

So, what if the search for a "serviceable" catcher is one that Yu Darvish would want to work with? We then sign him to a minor league contract since we need upper Minors depth anyways, and if Darvish signs, this person would be our backup catcher to catch Darvish instead of Vogt. Probably would be better defensively anyways.

 

Just a thought.

Didn't that happen except the catcher Darvish likes to work with signed with the Cubs?

[ougiqbxy]

It did, but that doesn't mean there aren't other catchers who Yu also may like to work with. To me, if the report of a seviceable catcher is true, this seems likely as to why the Brewers would be searching and the term "serviceable" was applied.

[Boomer5]

Anglo,

I hear what you are saying and for another team, Pina (or others) might make some sense.

Cleveland isn't that team (for a catcher coming back or a reunion w/ Jesus Aguilar or a INF like Villar or Perez).

 

I feel half the fun in trying to think up a trade is finding that other club that could be a match. Its part of the reason I have bookmarks with RosterResource & BaseballReference...

 

This is what happens in a slow time. People revert to trade ideas where we give up our junk in exchange for top 20 prospects.

[82brewcrew82]

It did, but that doesn't mean there aren't other catchers who Yu also may like to work with. To me, if the report of a seviceable catcher is true, this seems likely as to why the Brewers would be searching and the term "serviceable" was applied.

You're absolutely right and I'm sure there are other catchers that Yu prefers to throw to. I don't fall into the camp that believes they are actively seeking another catcher. Maybe down the road but not now.

[brewcrewdue80]

If you're asking about Darvish and catchers Lucroy is 2nd most caught for him at 21 games behind Geovani Soto at 26. Gimenez has 12.

Lucroy he had a better slash line over Gimenez fwiw. Looking it up Gimenez hadn't caught Darvish since '14 season. Yasmani Grandal caught him the best of late with Lucroy 2nd best. Problem with Lucroy was Darvish had his 2nd highest ERA of catchers catching him which was something I always wondered on Lucroy. I always had an inkling he wasn't the best on Pitch calling strategy, something Peralta requiring Maldonado his personal catcher hinted at. Looking at that stat Lucroy was a .753-.777 OPS better catcher than Maldy, but a 4.43 to 3.99 ERA lost difference to Maldy. Now for fun, I'm looking up Nelson who's far better with Lucroy and far worse with Maldy catching him. Meanwhile the opposite for Anderson 3.24ERA Maldy vs 5.55 with Lucroy.

[LouisEly]

Here's a thought... and I apologize if someone else has already speculated this...

 

What if either Pina or Vogt is being included as a part of a package in trade discussions with other teams?

Yes, it was speculated in post #20 of this thread.

[clancyphile]

I would be in favor, but not sure how it works. Lucroy will not want a part time job, so unless you are trading Pina it makes no sense. Pina did enough that he should at least be able to split time in the role. Likely there will be no First base opportunities for Lucroy here either as we already have a potential log jam there.

 

Lucroy as the primary and Pina as the backup would be an upgrade at catcher.

 

Think about it this way:

* Lucroy catches 100 games, Pina 60

* Lucroy plays 10-15 games at first as Braun DHs

* Braun plays 110 games at first

* Santana in RF, Yelich LF

* Thames kept as backup 1B/LF/RF, 30-40 starts at first, maybe 10-15 in left, 10-15 in right

* Aguilar on the move somewhere for a pitcher

[82brewcrew82]

I would be in favor, but not sure how it works. Lucroy will not want a part time job, so unless you are trading Pina it makes no sense. Pina did enough that he should at least be able to split time in the role. Likely there will be no First base opportunities for Lucroy here either as we already have a potential log jam there.

 

Lucroy as the primary and Pina as the backup would be an upgrade at catcher.

 

Think about it this way:

* Lucroy catches 100 games, Pina 60

* Lucroy plays 10-15 games at first as Braun DHs

* Braun plays 110 games at first

* Santana in RF, Yelich LF

* Thames kept as backup 1B/LF/RF, 30-40 starts at first, maybe 10-15 in left, 10-15 in right

* Aguilar on the move somewhere for a pitcher

* OK

* There is already a log jam at first. There are no at bats for Luc at first.

* People are taking the Braun to first thing and running with it. They said they want to try and play him there occasionally. He won't get anywhere near 110 games at first.

* OK

* Not happen, at least not by himself.

[Bench Coach 5]

I would be in favor, but not sure how it works. Lucroy will not want a part time job, so unless you are trading Pina it makes no sense. Pina did enough that he should at least be able to split time in the role. Likely there will be no First base opportunities for Lucroy here either as we already have a potential log jam there.

 

Lucroy as the primary and Pina as the backup would be an upgrade at catcher.

 

Think about it this way:

* Lucroy catches 100 games, Pina 60

* Lucroy plays 10-15 games at first as Braun DHs

* Braun plays 110 games at first

* Santana in RF, Yelich LF

* Thames kept as backup 1B/LF/RF, 30-40 starts at first, maybe 10-15 in left, 10-15 in right

* Aguilar on the move somewhere for a pitcher

 

That seems reasonable. I do expect Lucroy to bounce back a bit this year and being in Miller Park would likely help. The thought of that lineup is pretty exciting, especially if Pina plays close to the level he did last year. Having a solid back up catcher that can hit would be awesome.

[chuckiehacks]

* People are taking the Braun to first thing and running with it. They said they want to try and play him there occasionally. He won't get anywhere near 110 games at first.

 

I've seen you say this in a few threads, but I don't recall that. I only heard Braun say he's willing to try and the team say they're going to try him there. It's very possible I missed something, but where did you see that?

[pacopete4]

* People are taking the Braun to first thing and running with it. They said they want to try and play him there occasionally. He won't get anywhere near 110 games at first.

 

I've seen you say this in a few threads, but I don't recall that. I only heard Braun say he's willing to try and the team say they're going to try him there. It's very possible I missed something, but where did you see that?

 

He is more likely guessing. But if they do really open up the season with Santana on the roster, it will all depend on how comfortable Braun is at 1B during spring training. If he steps in there and plays great, you may just see him stick there. If he looks awkward or makes a ton of errors, then you probably won't. It has already been stated by Braun and by the Brewers that he will be playing there in Spring Training. Until it happens and everyone sees what it looks like, it is everyone's guess as to how it will work out.

[82brewcrew82]

Here are a couple articles I found searching quickly. I believe there is a Counsel quote out there somewhere too.

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/nl-notes-braves-brewers-braun-marlins.html

"Thanks in part to their acquisitions of star outfielders Lorenzo Cain and Christian Yelich, the Brewers will attempt to work around their OF surplus by occasionally using Ryan Braun at first base in 2018."

 

https://www.mlb.com/brewers/news/brewers-ryan-braun-could-play-first-base/c-265420296

With the Brewers suddenly flush with outfielders, Ryan Braun might be moving back to the infield -- at least on an occasional basis.

[young guns]

I think they have to say occasionally with thames and aguilar still on the roster.

[clancyphile]

I think they have to say occasionally with thames and aguilar still on the roster.

 

Deal Aguilar, use Thames as a backup LF/1B/RF - you can work him 60-80 starts between injuries, days off, and games where the Crew will have a DH.

[MenchHead]

Aguilar has no trade value since he’s still an unproven part-time player. Even if some teams were interested they would be likely to just wait for him to be DFA. Also, with the surplus of outfielders we currently have, I don’t want to see Thames anywhere but first or DH.