Serviceable Catcher

[Warning Track Power]

Brewer's currently looking at adding a serviceable catcher for whatever that's worth.

 

This was a quote from HH19's post last night.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/catcher/

 

This is a list of the remaining free agent catchers.

 

Assuming HH does have a source, this definitely leads me to believe the reunion of Jonathan Lucroy and the Brewers is more likely than it was 24 hours ago. Every other player on that list is pretty easily argued to not be an upgrade on Pina, Vogt and Bandy. I truly wonder if the Brewers are contemplating this. I believe this would be an excellent move but I know I am in the minority.

[Bench Coach 5]

I would be in favor, but not sure how it works. Lucroy will not want a part time job, so unless you are trading Pina it makes no sense. Pina did enough that he should at least be able to split time in the role. Likely there will be no First base opportunities for Lucroy here either as we already have a potential log jam there.

[KeithStone53151]

We have 3 serviceable catchers for 2 spots. I wonder if we are looking for someone serviceable and with option(s). Bandy is likely to be the odd man out and will probably be able to find work as a backup if he isn't kept...I don't think he'd wind up in our AAA. I think there's enough competition as is at that spot, I'm not sure why we are looking at catcher unless it's for AAA depth. I'm not sure Nottingham would be ready to fill in if we had a May injury.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Lucroy would come cheap, I'd be OK with it. Pina definitely had an unexpected year last year, but it isn't like he's a sure-fire top-end starting catcher. If you are looking at Lucroy as your #1, Pina would definitely be an upgrade on Vogt.

[pacopete4]

If Lucroy came with a 2yr deal at this point, I am all in favor of making him the starter. He can catch 100 games and Pina can catch the other 60. Pina, to me, is the biggest regression candidate that we have. I am not sold on him catching 100+ games for us and doing it well. Defensively, he seems pretty legit but that bat will probably regress. A Lucroy-Pina combo would be pretty fun as long as the front office feels Lucroy has something in the tank.

[StearnsFTW]

Minimal money, sure. But it's still not a need in my opinion. If Lucroy batted Left-handed I'd be more in favor it, because I really don't like Vogt at all.

[pacopete4]

Lucroy:

 

2017-

vs. RHP: .272/.355/.386/.741

vs. LHP: .243/.317/.327/.644

 

Career-

vs. RHP: .279/.343/.421/.764

vs. LHP: .288/.343/.471/.814

_________________________

Vogt:

 

2017-

vs. RHP: .237/.290/.442/.732

vs. LHP: .200/.242/.267/.509

 

Career-

vs. RHP: .259/.319/.435/.754

vs. LHP: .214/.266/.328/.593

_________________________

Pina

 

2017-

vs. RHP: .275/.324/.445/.769

vs. LHP: .287/.333/.372/.706

 

Career- his career was basically last year so I used his 2016 AAA stats

vs. RHP: .309/.387/.492/.879

vs. LHP: .292/.333/.372/.725

[pacopete4]

The above stats really have me questioning Vogt's place on this team.

[yfinn6]

The above stats really have me questioning Vogt's place on this team.

 

Especially when watching Vogt's defense last year.. ick.

[Bench Coach 5]

The above stats really have me questioning Vogt's place on this team.

 

Especially when watching Vogt's defense last year.. ick.

 

Exactly. I am hoping we do find a serviceable catcher or that one of the others in camp beat Vogt out for the spot.

[KeithStone53151]

The above stats really have me questioning Vogt's place on this team.

 

Especially when watching Vogt's defense last year.. ick.

 

Vogt is on a non-guaranteed contract and has said he's specifically working on improving his throwing this offseason. I like the idea of him and Bandy competing for the backup job. Don't discount Vogt's additional value as a lefty hitting catcher.

[pacopete4]

The above stats really have me questioning Vogt's place on this team.

 

Especially when watching Vogt's defense last year.. ick.

 

Vogt is on a non-guaranteed contract and has said he's specifically working on improving his throwing this offseason. I like the idea of him and Bandy competing for the backup job. Don't discount Vogt's additional value as a lefty hitting catcher.

 

That left handed bat only matters if he can out slug a right handed option. But if the trade off for it is lousy defense, no thanks. He looked cooked last year.

[Boomer5]

Our catchers are pretty bad unless you think Pina is the real deal all of a sudden at his age. There no catchers that matter on our 40 man.

 

The problem is Lucroy isn't really an answer other than his name and familiarity.

 

Our scouts will need to earn their pay checks to find us a catcher.

[KeithStone53151]

Our catchers are pretty bad unless you think Pina is the real deal all of a sudden at his age. There no catchers that matter on our 40 man.

 

The problem is Lucroy isn't really an answer other than his name and familiarity.

 

Our scouts will need to earn their pay checks to find us a catcher.

 

I think you may need a general reset of expectations when it comes to mlb catchers. Pina was in the top 1/3 of catchers in OPS in 2017 with 751. Also Pina was top 10 in batting average. Defensively, he was top 1/3 in CS% and allowed only 4 PB in over 100 games...a very reasonable rate. I hate using WAR, but add to this that his WAR was roughly top 1/3...and it appears we have a slightly above average catcher. Pina absolutely is a regression candidate, it would be reasonable to find another solid catcher to pair with him. We have 2 guys that could be very solid backups in Vogt and Bandy...I don't see a reason to spend much on an alternative to those 2 guys.

 

As far as catchers and batting stats, the average catching line based on minimum 100 AB was 244/311/399. Pina posted 279/327/424, Vogt 254/281/508, Bandy 207/287/349. Bandy was also much better before falling off a cliff. Brewers compared fairly well to the average MLB catcher and generally you shouldn't expect 800+ ops guys as your catcher. There weren't all that many, and a majority that did only had 200-300 AB...so smaller sample.

[Enscheff]

Brewer's currently looking at adding a serviceable catcher for whatever that's worth.

 

This was a quote from HH19's post last night.

 

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/catcher/

 

This is a list of the remaining free agent catchers.

 

Assuming HH does have a source, this definitely leads me to believe the reunion of Jonathan Lucroy and the Brewers is more likely than it was 24 hours ago. Every other player on that list is pretty easily argued to not be an upgrade on Pina, Vogt and Bandy. I truly wonder if the Brewers are contemplating this. I believe this would be an excellent move but I know I am in the minority.

 

Did you guys honestly let some wannabe forum heroes run off the guy who was willing to toss some inside info our way?

 

It's a shame. He was the only reason I signed up for these forums. Your mods let you all down.

[Boomer5]

Our catchers are pretty bad unless you think Pina is the real deal all of a sudden at his age. There no catchers that matter on our 40 man.

 

The problem is Lucroy isn't really an answer other than his name and familiarity.

 

Our scouts will need to earn their pay checks to find us a catcher.

 

I think you may need a general reset of expectations when it comes to mlb catchers. Pina was in the top 1/3 of catchers in OPS in 2017 with 751. Also Pina was top 10 in batting average. Defensively, he was top 1/3 in CS% and allowed only 4 PB in over 100 games...a very reasonable rate. I hate using WAR, but add to this that his WAR was roughly top 1/3...and it appears we have a slightly above average catcher. Pina absolutely is a regression candidate, it would be reasonable to find another solid catcher to pair with him. We have 2 guys that could be very solid backups in Vogt and Bandy...I don't see a reason to spend much on an alternative to those 2 guys.

 

As far as catchers and batting stats, the average catching line based on minimum 100 AB was 244/311/399. Pina posted 279/327/424, Vogt 254/281/508, Bandy 207/287/349. Bandy was also much better before falling off a cliff. Brewers compared fairly well to the average MLB catcher and generally you shouldn't expect 800+ ops guys as your catcher. There weren't all that many, and a majority that did only had 200-300 AB...so smaller sample.

 

I agree completely that Pina was spectacular by MLB catcher standards in 2017. My issue is he will be 31 in June and quite literally did nothing except last year. That's a lot to expect a repeat performance.

[KeithStone53151]

Our catchers are pretty bad unless you think Pina is the real deal all of a sudden at his age. There no catchers that matter on our 40 man.

 

The problem is Lucroy isn't really an answer other than his name and familiarity.

 

Our scouts will need to earn their pay checks to find us a catcher.

 

I think you may need a general reset of expectations when it comes to mlb catchers. Pina was in the top 1/3 of catchers in OPS in 2017 with 751. Also Pina was top 10 in batting average. Defensively, he was top 1/3 in CS% and allowed only 4 PB in over 100 games...a very reasonable rate. I hate using WAR, but add to this that his WAR was roughly top 1/3...and it appears we have a slightly above average catcher. Pina absolutely is a regression candidate, it would be reasonable to find another solid catcher to pair with him. We have 2 guys that could be very solid backups in Vogt and Bandy...I don't see a reason to spend much on an alternative to those 2 guys.

 

As far as catchers and batting stats, the average catching line based on minimum 100 AB was 244/311/399. Pina posted 279/327/424, Vogt 254/281/508, Bandy 207/287/349. Bandy was also much better before falling off a cliff. Brewers compared fairly well to the average MLB catcher and generally you shouldn't expect 800+ ops guys as your catcher. There weren't all that many, and a majority that did only had 200-300 AB...so smaller sample.

 

I agree completely that Pina was spectacular by MLB catcher standards in 2017. My issue is he will be 31 in June and quite literally did nothing except last year. That's a lot to expect a repeat performance.

 

He had a couple good years in AAA, obviously not the same...but it's hard to know how he would have done at this level. And while it's unusual for guys to come on at age 30, it's much more common for catchers to be late bloomers than other positions. I guess for me the question is how good do you think Vogt/Bandy will be? I can understand adding some competition, I can't understand shelling out significant value for Lucroy or prospect value for someone comparable. And I doubt we are going to get a catchers better than Vogt/Bandy for cheap, it's somewhat similar to our 2b dilemna.

[Outlander]

Yes, it could be a black hole at catcher if it wasn't the real Pina last year, and I am not a big fan of Vogt. I do wonder if Lucroy is looking for a long term deal or a 1 year deal to reestablish his value. I'm not sure he can get more than the 2/15 that Wellington Castilla received.

[Warning Track Power]

I agree completely that Pina was spectacular by MLB catcher standards in 2017. My issue is he will be 31 in June and quite literally did nothing except last year. That's a lot to expect a repeat performance.

As I have stated in numerous threads, Pina at the plate is my biggest fear in terms of a regression candidate. Signing Lucroy to a 2 year $18-$20 million deal would be a priority of mine if I were DS. Do the Santana-Salazar deal as well and you open with:

 

1. Cain

2. Yelich

3. Braun

4. Shaw

5. Lucroy

6. Thames

7. Villar/Sogard

8. Arcia

 

Anderson-Salazar-Davies-Chacin-Woodruff/Suter/Guerra and determine where you're at with Nelson and at the Deadline if more SP is needed.

[LouisEly]

What I interpret this to mean is one of two things:

 

1) that if Vogt's throwing doesn't improve and Bandy's hitting doesn't improve they will be in the market for a capable backup (i.e. "serviceable catcher")

 

B) Pina's cheap in 2018 (still pre-arb until 2019) and under control until 2022, and they might be considering including him in a trade to get the SP that they need. Never underestimate the value of cheap, even for one year.

[DR28]

I agree completely that Pina was spectacular by MLB catcher standards in 2017. My issue is he will be 31 in June and quite literally did nothing except last year. That's a lot to expect a repeat performance.

As I have stated in numerous threads, Pina at the plate is my biggest fear in terms of a regression candidate. Signing Lucroy to a 2 year $18-$20 million deal would be a priority of mine if I were DS. Do the Santana-Salazar deal as well and you open with:

 

1. Cain

2. Yelich

3. Braun

4. Shaw

5. Lucroy

6. Thames

7. Villar/Sogard

8. Arcia

 

Anderson-Salazar-Davies-Chacin-Woodruff/Suter/Guerra and determine where you're at with Nelson and at the Deadline if more SP is needed.

 

I would ask for Kipnis along with Salazar...

 

Lineup gets much better

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Lucroy

Kipnis

Thames

Arcia

 

Then sign Cobb or Lynn...

 

Anderson

Cobb/Lynn

Salazar

Davies

Chacin

 

Thats a winner there!

[TURBO]

Is Cobb or Lynn that much better than anything we currently have?

 

Serious question.

[JCREW]

Is Cobb or Lynn that much better than anything we currently have?

 

Serious question.

 

Steamer projects Cobb to be a few tenths of a WAR better than Woody and Chacin. It projects Lynn to be a few tenths worse than those two.

 

So in that model, our rotation would be

Davies

Anderson

Cobb

Woodruff

Chacin

 

and later in the year

 

Nelson

Davies

Anderson

Cobb

Woodruff

 

Steamer actually projects Jaime Garcia as the guy to get after Yu and Arrietta.

[SRB]

Is Cobb or Lynn that much better than anything we currently have?

 

Serious question.

 

If they were free, then maybe.

[Boomer5]

Is Cobb or Lynn that much better than anything we currently have?

 

Serious question.

 

Analytics say not really. Throw in the contract $$$then definitely no.