2B Targets

[splitterpfj]

At his current salary, Kipnis has negative trade value. The idea that it would take Santana, Peralta plus another player for players with several warts in Salazar and Kipnis seems like a total nonstarter to me. Milwaukee would be assuming the salary and injury risk in exchange for a some pretty nice pieces heading back. Maybe for Clevenger, but not for an injury risk like Salazar.

 

Kipnis had a lousy year last year, but he’s also had several good ones, he only has negative trade value if you take on all or most of his contract at this point. The thing is, anyone can see that, which means Stearns sees it too, so I have no reason to think Milwaukee would just deal a good prospect for Kipnis, unless Cleveland pays a good amount of that contract.

 

To me, the tricky part is agreeing on how much the Brewers will pay Kipnis - if they can get that far, I’m sure they could sort out the players.

[TJseven7]

MadThinker,

You seem to have a foot in MKE and a foot in CLE.

How does the average Indians fan react to something like Santana and Ponce for Kipnis and Salazar?

 

you ask & I will respond...

 

The average Indian fan would go nuts with the idea of Santana only for Kipnis & Salazar. Every fan (even those not thrilled with Salazar over the past 1.5 seasons) would expect more than 1 piece back for him alone. The question becomes what is the other piece. Kipnis is still a fan favorite so they would expect something for him alone.

 

So I would echo A Swing & a Drive (Tom Hamilton's catch phrase by the way): Santana & Ponce would not be sufficient.

Part of my reasoning on that is I don't believe Ponce would be a target for the Tribe. They have a handful of other pitchers being crowded at the AA level pitching wise (the group at high a Lynchburg was very good last season- McKenzie, Bieber, & Civale among them).

 

So if the prospect piece (or pieces) was different, there might be a chance. IMHO if it was Freddy Peralta & a lotto ticket, there might be a chance because the deal could help in the 2018 push (Peralta might be able to assist the 2018 club in the bullpen & the change having Santana).

 

The average Tribe fan would enter a 'wait & see' mode thinking 1) the Tribe got ok value in the trade (everyone wants more) and 2) wondering what would be done with the Tribe salary savings - is there another (non-MKE) deal being made or an extension being signed by someone like Lindor/ Cody Allen/ etc.

 

Sounds like they illogically overvalue Kipnis. It's like Braun here I guess. 30 mil is far more than any 2b will get this year and it's not an easy argument to state he's the best of that crop. Can't afford waste when you are trying to claw to the top as the prices are rising.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I don’t think BRew should trade Santana, Braun can’t be counted on for health. I think we stand pat unless there’s a SP trade out there not involving Domingo. Hiura is coming fast, he may help this year.

[SandyTolan]

I also like the idea of hanging onto Santana if possible, and instead signing Darvish or Arrieta. This puts Braun in 1B share with Thames, most likely, with him playing a bit of corner OF and Phillips as the 4th/5th OF. There's an option for Broxton so that needn't be an issue.

 

In which case:

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Santana

Villar

Piña

Arcia

 

Rotaton: Darvish/Arrieta-Anderson-Davies-Chacin-Guerra/Suter/Woodruff/Gallardo

 

On the other hand, some kind of Santana + mid-level prospect + Hernan or Broxton for Salazar/Clevenger + Kipnis, with Cleveland eating some of Kipnis's $28M salary over the next two years, could be pretty great, too.

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Thames/Aguilar

Kipnis

Piña

Arcia

 

Phillips, 4th OF; Villar, supersub

 

Rotation: Anderson-Salazar-Davies-Chacin-Guerra/Suter/Woodruff/Gallardo

[82brewcrew82]

I don’t think BRew should trade Santana, Braun can’t be counted on for health. I think we stand pat unless there’s a SP trade out there not involving Domingo. Hiura is coming fast, he may help this year.

Hiura needs a full year just to work of defense if nothing else. I think Braun finds a way to be "healthier" (no, that is not a PED dig) if they put a team around him that is truly capable of challenging for more than a one game playoff. Either way, if Santana does not get regular at bats his value is going to fall. Couple that with the fact that this team needs more pitching and I believe the absolute right move is to trade. The team has been trying to deal him since the season ended so I have to believe they are in the same frame of mind. Good on Stearns for holding out for the best deal but I still say this is the team (with Santana) that goes to spring training.

[SandyTolan]

I don’t think BRew should trade Santana, Braun can’t be counted on for health. I think we stand pat unless there’s a SP trade out there not involving Domingo. Hiura is coming fast, he may help this year.

Hiura needs a full year just to work of defense if nothing else. I think Braun finds a way to be "healthier" (no, that is not a PED dig) if they put a team around him that is truly capable of challenging for more than a one game playoff. Either way, if Santana does not get regular at bats his value is going to fall. Couple that with the fact that this team needs more pitching and I believe the absolute right move is to trade. The team has been trying to deal him since the season ended so I have to believe they are in the same frame of mind. Good on Stearns for holding out for the best deal but I still say this is the team (with Santana) that goes to spring training.

 

 

Also, Hiura has never played above low A-ball, and even there, not for long. So he'll likely start in high A, and with luck get to AA this year. Would be really surprised to see him in Milwaukee before late 2019.

[KeithStone53151]

I don’t think BRew should trade Santana, Braun can’t be counted on for health. I think we stand pat unless there’s a SP trade out there not involving Domingo. Hiura is coming fast, he may help this year.

Hiura needs a full year just to work of defense if nothing else. I think Braun finds a way to be "healthier" (no, that is not a PED dig) if they put a team around him that is truly capable of challenging for more than a one game playoff. Either way, if Santana does not get regular at bats his value is going to fall. Couple that with the fact that this team needs more pitching and I believe the absolute right move is to trade. The team has been trying to deal him since the season ended so I have to believe they are in the same frame of mind. Good on Stearns for holding out for the best deal but I still say this is the team (with Santana) that goes to spring training.

 

Have you seen anything to have any gauge on where Hiura is at defensively? He played a bit in instructionals, but not much for any affiliate...so I don't think anyone has any idea where he is at defensively. Him not playing there his final year in college or his first 2 months of pro ball does not automatically equal him needing tons of time at the position.

[82brewcrew82]

I don’t think BRew should trade Santana, Braun can’t be counted on for health. I think we stand pat unless there’s a SP trade out there not involving Domingo. Hiura is coming fast, he may help this year.

Hiura needs a full year just to work of defense if nothing else. I think Braun finds a way to be "healthier" (no, that is not a PED dig) if they put a team around him that is truly capable of challenging for more than a one game playoff. Either way, if Santana does not get regular at bats his value is going to fall. Couple that with the fact that this team needs more pitching and I believe the absolute right move is to trade. The team has been trying to deal him since the season ended so I have to believe they are in the same frame of mind. Good on Stearns for holding out for the best deal but I still say this is the team (with Santana) that goes to spring training.

 

Have you seen anything to have any gauge on where Hiura is at defensively? He played a bit in instructionals, but not much for any affiliate...so I don't think anyone has any idea where he is at defensively. Him not playing there his final year in college or his first 2 months of pro ball does not automatically equal him needing tons of time at the position.

That was the basis for my comment. I had read/heard somewhere that he looked good during instructs but I would figure things like turning A DP would take some time to work through. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing he spends the year in the minors.

[KeithStone53151]

Have you seen anything to have any gauge on where Hiura is at defensively? He played a bit in instructionals, but not much for any affiliate...so I don't think anyone has any idea where he is at defensively. Him not playing there his final year in college or his first 2 months of pro ball does not automatically equal him needing tons of time at the position.

That was the basis for my comment. I had read/heard somewhere that he looked good during instructs but I would figure things like turning A DP would take some time to work through. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm guessing he spends the year in the minors.

 

It's absolutely fair to be concerned about his fielding and how long that might need. It's fair to be concerned that he doesn't even stick at 2nd and needs to move to LF or 1b. I don't think it's fair to say he absolutely needs a full year in the minors for defensive reasons, I honestly don't think enough information has been made available even for the diehard milb followers to make that definitive statement. He hasn't played defense enough for an affiliate whereas you could have an milb subscription and watch him play, and most of the national prospect guys probably haven't seen him enough to make definitive statements on him. It almost makes you wonder how they can properly grade his arm/field tools. Anywho...I'm sure many people saw the results from Rickie Weeks bat forcing him to the majors when the glove wasn't ready...and don't want to make that mistake twice.