Designated Hitter in the National League? (Post #144: Proposed for 2020 Shortened Season)

[DocLuna7]

The NL stands ALONE in its rule requiring pitchers to still hit.

Yes there are a couple pitchers that are still very good hitters but the vast majority are a danger to themselves and their team's offense when they go to the plate.

 

Time to join the rest of the world & allow the DH in the NL..

 

Isn’t the “rest of the world” in this case just the American League?

[adambr2]

The NL stands ALONE in its rule requiring pitchers to still hit.

Yes there are a couple pitchers that are still very good hitters but the vast majority are a danger to themselves and their team's offense when they go to the plate.

 

Time to join the rest of the world & allow the DH in the NL..

 

Isn’t the “rest of the world” in this case just the American League?

 

Not really. Most of the minors, amateur, college, international and other leagues have adopted the DH by now. A few still don't but the ones who have it outweigh them.

[sveumrules]

While I prefer the added strategy with pitchers hitting & do enjoy watching their attempts at doing so, NL clubs & batters are at a marked disadvantage with no DH. AL clubs have 600+ extra PAs at their disposal every season.

 

Last year Brinson probably would've gotten 300-400 PAs if Milwaukee had a DH. Our current OF surplus is much less severe with a DH. A lineup of Cain | Yelich | Braun | Shaw | Domingo | Thames | Pina | 2B | Arcia would be a lot of fun.

 

It's also more difficult than ever to hit MLB pitching. Last year pitchers posted a -20 wRC+, the worst of the modern era. 1974 was a high water mark, pitchers batted 165/208/204 (15 wRC+) with a 28.7 K%. Last year it was 125/157/153 with a 38.4 K%.

[Bob Skube Snacks]

The "strategy" of getting around hitting pitchers is often "obligation" not strategy. Double switches, hitting around pitchers, bunting, determining bullpen usage isn't exactly quantum physics anyway.

 

Bring on the DH.

[GAME05]

I'm staunchly against it. I like the added strategy with a pitcher hitting along with all the "take the pitcher out???" questions during the game. I also like that it creates a difference between the NL and the AL (I don't like Interleague, either).

[Baldkin]

Do starting pitchers in the AL average more innings per start than in the NL? It would make sense that they do but I’m not sure how to find that. In any case, this would be another reason I’m for it. Relief pitching changes are an annoying nuisance to the game of baseball.

 

I looked it up on Baseball-reference:

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/split.cgi?t=p&lg=NL&year=2017#all_9821949978

 

2430 Games started for 13420.2 IP, an average of 5.52 IP/Start

 

2430 Games started for 13366.2 IP, an average of 5.50 IP/Start.

 

Not surprised the NL averages a little more. They get 2 free outs every 6IP.

[bylo tesi me]

I grew up watching the Brewers in the '70's and '80's (yes, I am really old) and remember when my dad was staunchly against the DH rule in the early '70's, though I was very young. My dad was a huge Braves fan in the '50's and hated the radical change the DH represented at the time. He eventually came around and made peace with the rule throughout our time as Brewer fans in the '70's and '80's. Myself, I grew up watch AL Brewers and the DH and have no issue with the NL adopting the rule. I do like the Strategy, but with economic factors and other reasons others have posted, it seems inevitable.

[FVBrewerFan]

Eliminate DH in both leagues. DH is not baseball. It's close, but not baseball.

[jerichoholicninja]

Couldn't care less about strategy but saying, "well pitchers aren't good at hitting so they don't have to bat" is no different than saying "a lot of catchers and middle infielders aren't good hitters so they shouldn't have to bat either."

[bylo tesi me]

Couldn't care less about strategy but saying, "well pitchers aren't good at hitting so they don't have to bat" is no different than saying "a lot of catchers and middle infielders aren't good hitters so they shouldn't have to bat either."

 

 

Fair point. though it would never happen, I could see an argument that good defensive catchers are just as valuable as your starting pitchers, certainly your bottom rotation starters. 2nd DH for them?? Weak hitting middle infielders are replaceable, so I can't see it.

[sveumrules]

Pitchers posted a -20 wRC+ in 2017. Catchers, 90. Shortstop, 92.

 

There is a measurable difference & it is immense.

[jerichoholicninja]

Couldn't care less about strategy but saying, "well pitchers aren't good at hitting so they don't have to bat" is no different than saying "a lot of catchers and middle infielders aren't good hitters so they shouldn't have to bat either."

 

 

Fair point. though it would never happen, I could see an argument that good defensive catchers are just as valuable as your starting pitchers, certainly your bottom rotation starters. 2nd DH for them?? Weak hitting middle infielders are replaceable, so I can't see it.

 

You see the opposite argument too. Guys like David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez who couldn't play defense and only have careers because of the DH.

[topper09er]

 

It might be "strategy", but it's boring.

 

 

So I assume you oppose all instant replay in any form?

[Bombers]

At the end of the day baseball scores of 7 to 6 are better than 2 to 1 like a football score of 33 to 32 vs 9 to 3. The general public likes scoring and that is a way to increase it in the NL. Plus the fact pitchers get hurt hitting so the players union would be for it

[superfly]

I don't care which way it goes but in it's current form it is the dumbest thing I have seen aside from "Leaders and Legends" in sports.

[josh]

I grew up with the DH, but have grown to like, and I guess even prefer, the pitcher batting.

 

HOWEVER. The current Brewers lineup with a DH sounds pretty darn good. Okay, I’m in.

[Mudville9]

If I had the choice, I would make the AL pitchers hit and get rid of the DH there, but the DH isn't going anywhere and both leagues should have the same players at this point with interleague play. That is the only reason I voted yes.

[pacopete4]

If I had the choice, I would make the AL pitchers hit and get rid of the DH there, but the DH isn't going anywhere and both leagues should have the same players at this point with interleague play. That is the only reason I voted yes.

 

I would do this as well IF pitchers had to hit all the way through the minor leagues as well. No DH in the pros. No DH is minor league baseball. No DH in college baseball. No DH in high school baseball. This would force even lousy hitting pitchers to hopefully get better and not be such a bore to the game of baseball.

 

But yeah, since that is not happening. Both leagues should have the same rules and there it is, DH in the National League.

[brewcrewdue80]

Do starting pitchers in the AL average more innings per start than in the NL? It would make sense that they do but I’m not sure how to find that. In any case, this would be another reason I’m for it. Relief pitching changes are an annoying nuisance to the game of baseball.

 

 

Both leagues averaged 5.5 IP per start last year.

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/NL/2017-starter-pitching.shtml

 

Also, the NL had 7922 relief appearances last year, and the AL had 7737, so only 200 fewer relief appearances (virtually the same, more or less). The AL managers are switching out pitchers at the same time in the game, and just as often. The DH is not keeping AL pitchers from swapping out pitchers and creating favorable pitching matchups when needed.

 

The relief pitching explosion is the new moneyball. Teams have found that with an average offense, average rotation, and a devastating bullpen, you can be a good team. Look at the 2015 Royals. THey were 6th in the AL in runs scored (slightly above average). they didn't have an ace starter (Chris Young and Edinson Volquez had good, not great years), but the back end of their bullpen was fantastic. Look at the way teams have used Andrew Miller. Dude's one of the best relievers in baseball, but has only been a closer one year. AL managers are "getting it" that getting through the lineup twice with your starter, and then going to your bullpen ( if it's good) is how to minimize run scoring from the opposition. We're probably less than a decade away from some teams averaging less than 5 IP per game from their starters for an entire season.

 

I know people want to the pace of game to speed up, but this is how the game is played now. I can honestly see, as someone else said earlier in the thread, roster expansion being something the league or the players union brings to the table soon, as relief specialization becomes an even more integral part of the game.

 

I'm going to assume some of that 5.5 is because keeping a NL pitcher through the 5th or 6th inning because they are due up in the order helps stretch out their IP, and meanwhile because of the DH, not having 3-4 pitch strikeouts but an advanced hitter who gets on base over 30% of the time extends the pitch count to AL pitchers that they are closer to 100 before the 6th inning vs an NL pitcher being in the 80s.

 

I voted yes because the game is changing. Hitters are healthier, Pitchers aren't. Or, for pitchers, at least their improved health doesn't help them against injuries and performing longer.

 

I fear the game gets a lot longer though with the DH(10-12mins longer) I'd implement a 2 batter minimum on RPs when making a pitching change. None of this Bring a Lefty in to face a lefty, single, now take out and bring a righty to face a righty, walk, now bring in another Lefty to face a Lefty.

 

And I get the fans here that will say, well I like the strategy aspect, but it's a strategy too on choosing who will pitch to 2 batters if they don't end the inning on the 1st.

If the RP gets out of the inning with his 1st batter, because of inning change, he doesn't have to face a 2nd hitter as you are not delaying the game to change pitchers at this point.

 

The made the move for Catchers on the sliding rule when Posey had his leg broken, well how many pitchers need to get hurt running the bases before you change this rule? You have interleague and having an AL team play at home is a huge advantage and vice versa having an NL play at home. Maybe, with this change you add another 3-7games of interleague, or just remove it all together.

 

What if changed the AL to Pitchers bat but both leagues have "passes" on 81 games to use a DH? Giving a guy like Ohtani a chance by Angels to get at bats. Keeps Bumgarner with batting if the Giants decide to. Meanwhile a guy like Nelson who was the Brewers Ace last year, a pass on batting when he starts, and you use your DH in that game.

Then if a DH hurt himself, you could use a number of the next games with Pitchers hitting, or you play games with DH for your #1s and 2s or Pitchers who won't hit 75pts on the season aka Ben Sheets at the plate. Throwing it out there to please both sides...sorta.

[TURBO]

Years ago, I heard some talking head mention that there are some pitchers who would not sign with a NL team because they would have to hit. How often that happens, I don't know, but just another reason to even up both leagues...

[jerichoholicninja]

Here's a totally stupid idea I'll throw out there: how about all teams can use a DH but only for a certain number of games, let's just say 120. This adds a little strategy. I'm sure Bumgarner hits every time he starts, that leaves 10-15 games that the Giants have to strategically decide where they will let their pitcher hit.

[FVBrewerFan]

At the end of the day baseball scores of 7 to 6 are better than 2 to 1 like a football score of 33 to 32 vs 9 to 3. The general public likes scoring and that is a way to increase it in the NL.

 

I thought the "general public" liked fast games? A 2-1 game is likely to be your 2 /1/2 hour variety. Hard for me to keep track of what the general public wants I guess.

 

Me? I love baseball. A huge part of baseball is strategy, and most of that is eliminated by adding the DH. I would much rather see a 2-1 game in the NL, vs a 12-8 game in the AL. If I want to see that, I can go visit my local softball diamond.

 

So, yes, I hate the DH. I hate instant replay. Yet both are here to stay, and DH in the NL will be here soon enough I'm sure.

[topper09er]

Officially I am against the DH totally because it is just a random change to the way baseball fundamentally works. All the players should have to play offense and defense, period. However, given that it will never happen, I think the idea below is actually a pretty great compromise. Add the DH to the NL, but make the change to both leagues that the DH shall only be allowed for the starting pitcher.

 

I think there's got to be some way to have a balance between keeping that strategy in the game, and not making pitchers hit, like maybe having the DH go out of the game when you making a pitching change (just spitballing here).

 

This way pitchers will never bat, but the strategy and bench depth is still a part of the game. Both sides get what they really want.

[clancyphile]

I am in favor - for the following reasons:

1. I think it is still a wash in terms of innings - the AL pitchers don't have to be pinch-hit for, but they face better hitters.

2. The strategy is still in the mix. Yes, the DH takes out the double-switch, but pitcher use is still a factor.

3. I think it does reduce the chance of pitchers getting hurt doing something they rarely do.

4. I would favor a modification - allowing the DH only as long as the starter is in. Then, they have to replace the DH with pinch-hitters.

[Devinep]

Officially I am against the DH totally because it is just a random change to the way baseball fundamentally works. All the players should have to play offense and defense, period. However, given that it will never happen, I think the idea below is actually a pretty great compromise. Add the DH to the NL, but make the change to both leagues that the DH shall only be allowed for the starting pitcher.

 

I think there's got to be some way to have a balance between keeping that strategy in the game, and not making pitchers hit, like maybe having the DH go out of the game when you making a pitching change (just spitballing here).

 

This way pitchers will never bat, but the strategy and bench depth is still a part of the game. Both sides get what they really want.

 

That’s actually an interesting idea