Trevor Bauer

[SRB]

It's not just his Twitter personality. This is a guy who was a #3 overall pick and a top-10 overall prospect who the Diamondbacks couldn't wait to get rid of and finally did in a lopsided trade (Didi Gregorious was a good but not top-10-caliber prospect at the time) because of his off-field issues.

 

Just a side note on the Arizona situation - I believe the catcher that was really sounding off on Bauer was Miguel Montero. Wasn't he the same guy that spouted off to the media last season in the Cubs locker room about trying to catch certain Cubs pitchers and holding opposing base runners in check?? Sometimes you have to consider all aspects. Something the follies of youth will cause people to mature and realize they have to approach the situation differently moving forward.

 

Does Bauer do things that could infuriate you as a fan? Yes. Case in point the drone incident during the 2016 playoffs.

Does Bauer do things that could impress you as a fan? Yes.

Does Bauer want the ball on every chance he can get? Yes. He would prefer being part of a 4 man rotation & not coming out of a game until @ 150 pitches.

 

I tried locating a video clip on youtube for you (no luck), but Bauer was interviewed on the field after the Tribe won a then franchise record 14 games in a row in Toronto on 7/1/16. The interview won over many fans for Bauer. Bauer, the scheduled starter for the next game, came out of the pen & tossed 5+ IP in a 19 inning game to earn the victory in the 2-1 decision. To paraphrase off my memory: He was asked about how he felt and what might happen with the scheduled start the next day. Bauer having thrown 80+ pitches said he would do whatever was asked of him by Tito. If he could weigh in on the situation for who starts the next game, he would want the ball. He wants to pitch but would follow whatever was asked of him by the team.

 

I recall some Tribe chat boards changing their tune on Bauer after that. Went from "who does this guy think he is" to "he's our guy, will back him to the end".

 

We have all heard the mantra of 'Next Man Up' and appreciate the mindset of teamwork & togetherness. But every so often you need that person who voices the belief 'This is it. The opposition advances no further. I will stem this advance.'

 

It wasn't just Montero. The entire organization bailed on him, so there's something there whether we know what it is or not. He's not a guy I'm interested in rooting for, which would be more of a dilemma if his pitching talent weren't roughly equivalent to Zach Davies..

[MadThinker88]

..... my guess is that Gritty Gamer Kirk didn't love the fact that a rookie wasn't listening to his pitching coach, or his catcher (montero). .... .

 

I believe that pitching coach was Charles Nagy. After Nagy departed the DBacks he came back to the Indians organization, dealt with Bauer in the minors, and then moved onto the major league staff for Anaheim...

[WoahSolvdd]

mod edit: i knew someone would go political. don't go political.

[travisteck]

..... my guess is that Gritty Gamer Kirk didn't love the fact that a rookie wasn't listening to his pitching coach, or his catcher (montero). .... .

 

I believe that pitching coach was Charles Nagy. After Nagy departed the DBacks he came back to the Indians organization, dealt with Bauer in the minors, and then moved onto the major league staff for Anaheim...

 

Huh, interesting! Did not know that.

[jerichoholicninja]

It's not just his Twitter personality. This is a guy who was a #3 overall pick and a top-10 overall prospect who the Diamondbacks couldn't wait to get rid of and finally did in a lopsided trade (Didi Gregorious was a good but not top-10-caliber prospect at the time) because of his off-field issues.

 

Just a side note on the Arizona situation - I believe the catcher that was really sounding off on Bauer was Miguel Montero. Wasn't he the same guy that spouted off to the media last season in the Cubs locker room about trying to catch certain Cubs pitchers and holding opposing base runners in check?? Sometimes you have to consider all aspects. Something the follies of youth will cause people to mature and realize they have to approach the situation differently moving forward.

 

Does Bauer do things that could infuriate you as a fan? Yes. Case in point the drone incident during the 2016 playoffs.

Does Bauer do things that could impress you as a fan? Yes.

Does Bauer want the ball on every chance he can get? Yes. He would prefer being part of a 4 man rotation & not coming out of a game until @ 150 pitches.

 

I tried locating a video clip on youtube for you (no luck), but Bauer was interviewed on the field after the Tribe won a then franchise record 14 games in a row in Toronto on 7/1/16. The interview won over many fans for Bauer. Bauer, the scheduled starter for the next game, came out of the pen & tossed 5+ IP in a 19 inning game to earn the victory in the 2-1 decision. To paraphrase off my memory: He was asked about how he felt and what might happen with the scheduled start the next day. Bauer having thrown 80+ pitches said he would do whatever was asked of him by Tito. If he could weigh in on the situation for who starts the next game, he would want the ball. He wants to pitch but would follow whatever was asked of him by the team.

 

I recall some Tribe chat boards changing their tune on Bauer after that. Went from "who does this guy think he is" to "he's our guy, will back him to the end".

 

We have all heard the mantra of 'Next Man Up' and appreciate the mindset of teamwork & togetherness. But every so often you need that person who voices the belief 'This is it. The opposition advances no further. I will stem this advance.'

 

It wasn't just Montero. The entire organization bailed on him, so there's something there whether we know what it is or not. He's not a guy I'm interested in rooting for, which would be more of a dilemma if his pitching talent weren't roughly equivalent to Zach Davies..

 

One organization. And the one he's with now seems to have no problem with him. Talent wise he blows Davies out of the water: more velocity, better breaking pitches, strikes out more, gives up less hits... I'm a huge fan of Zack but to say he's more talented than Trevor Bauer just isn't true. Bauer's biggest flaw is his walks and his walk rate has consistently dropped throughout his career.

[WoahSolvdd]

Bauer, way more talent...from what we see so far..could change

[homer]

Sorry for telling the truth, people said he openly expresses his politics on Twitter...and people didn't like that....pretty obvious without looking what that means, and who would have a problem with it. Way to censor bud

 

viewtopic.php?&t=4208

 

From the Fan Forum Etiquette:

Please keep politics, religion, and sex out of the forum. Fairly or not, these topics have regularly resulted in threads going out of control. Also, please avoid contentious topics such as racial and ethnic issues.

If you're into discussing these topics, we recommend the separate forum Brewerfan Political Scene.

[WoahSolvdd]

Anyways we seen both sides of Bauer last year in the playoffs, if you figure he is somewhere in the middle that's pretty good.

[trwi7]

It's not just his Twitter personality. This is a guy who was a #3 overall pick and a top-10 overall prospect who the Diamondbacks couldn't wait to get rid of and finally did in a lopsided trade (Didi Gregorious was a good but not top-10-caliber prospect at the time) because of his off-field issues.

 

Didn't they get rid of him because they wanted him to do certain workouts but he had his own routine that he didn't want to stop doing? That's more on the Diamondbacks than it is on Bauer.

[clancyphile]

If Bauer can be had at a good price I think he is a terrific add with one of the fa starters. As many have said you really need a 7 man rotation with injuries especially with Nelson down for some time. FA starter, Anderson, Nelson, Bauer, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff and then Suter give you 8 guys who can start.

 

Bauer is a guy who could take another jump up coming to the NL. His stuff is there. He is still young. He wont be a FA until 2021. Has his name been mentioned by any of the national people?

 

Dunno, but the more I see, the more I like, especially when the Brewers coaches DO get the most out of folks. His BB/9, ERA+, FIP, and K/BB ratios are all going in the right direction over the last three years. He is controlled through 2021. The attitude after he threw those five innings in relief is a good one, too.

 

In a way, I think Bauer could be a good addition and obviate the need for an expensive free agent. Deal Aguilar and Bickford for him.

[Boomer5]

If Bauer can be had at a good price I think he is a terrific add with one of the fa starters. As many have said you really need a 7 man rotation with injuries especially with Nelson down for some time. FA starter, Anderson, Nelson, Bauer, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff and then Suter give you 8 guys who can start.

 

Bauer is a guy who could take another jump up coming to the NL. His stuff is there. He is still young. He wont be a FA until 2021. Has his name been mentioned by any of the national people?

 

Dunno, but the more I see, the more I like, especially when the Brewers coaches DO get the most out of folks. His BB/9, ERA+, FIP, and K/BB ratios are all going in the right direction over the last three years. He is controlled through 2021. The attitude after he threw those five innings in relief is a good one, too.

 

In a way, I think Bauer could be a good addition and obviate the need for an expensive free agent. Deal Aguilar and Bickford for him.

 

Bauer is a 3 WAR pitcher. Guys like Aguilar and Bickford aren't guys who will get you his crashed drones.

[Boomer5]

It's not just his Twitter personality. This is a guy who was a #3 overall pick and a top-10 overall prospect who the Diamondbacks couldn't wait to get rid of and finally did in a lopsided trade (Didi Gregorious was a good but not top-10-caliber prospect at the time) because of his off-field issues.

 

Just a side note on the Arizona situation - I believe the catcher that was really sounding off on Bauer was Miguel Montero. Wasn't he the same guy that spouted off to the media last season in the Cubs locker room about trying to catch certain Cubs pitchers and holding opposing base runners in check?? Sometimes you have to consider all aspects. Something the follies of youth will cause people to mature and realize they have to approach the situation differently moving forward.

 

Does Bauer do things that could infuriate you as a fan? Yes. Case in point the drone incident during the 2016 playoffs.

Does Bauer do things that could impress you as a fan? Yes.

Does Bauer want the ball on every chance he can get? Yes. He would prefer being part of a 4 man rotation & not coming out of a game until @ 150 pitches.

 

I tried locating a video clip on youtube for you (no luck), but Bauer was interviewed on the field after the Tribe won a then franchise record 14 games in a row in Toronto on 7/1/16. The interview won over many fans for Bauer. Bauer, the scheduled starter for the next game, came out of the pen & tossed 5+ IP in a 19 inning game to earn the victory in the 2-1 decision. To paraphrase off my memory: He was asked about how he felt and what might happen with the scheduled start the next day. Bauer having thrown 80+ pitches said he would do whatever was asked of him by Tito. If he could weigh in on the situation for who starts the next game, he would want the ball. He wants to pitch but would follow whatever was asked of him by the team.

 

I recall some Tribe chat boards changing their tune on Bauer after that. Went from "who does this guy think he is" to "he's our guy, will back him to the end".

 

We have all heard the mantra of 'Next Man Up' and appreciate the mindset of teamwork & togetherness. But every so often you need that person who voices the belief 'This is it. The opposition advances no further. I will stem this advance.'

 

It wasn't just Montero. The entire organization bailed on him, so there's something there whether we know what it is or not. He's not a guy I'm interested in rooting for, which would be more of a dilemma if his pitching talent weren't roughly equivalent to Zach Davies..

 

Bauer and Davies are two completely different pitchers.

[MadThinker88]

In a way, I think Bauer could be a good addition and obviate the need for an expensive free agent. Deal Aguilar and Bickford for him.

 

A) Bauer would cost more than Salazar to acquire. Your proposal is not even close.

 

B) Cleveland has no need to bring back Jesus Aguilar. His being DFA'd by the Tribe was how the Brewers got him to begin with.

[PDXBrewCrew]

I've been following Bauer for a while and have always been a fan. I don't think there is real off the field issues.. He just Marches to his own drum. He wanted to train his own way and pitch how he wanted to pitch, and used his own coach as mentioned. That team that traded him had Kirk Gibson as the manager, and my guess is that Gritty Gamer Kirk didn't love the fact that a rookie wasn't listening to his pitching coach, or his catcher (montero).

 

The guy is obsessed with the mechanical aspects of pitching. DBs didn't love him going his own way. Any talk of "off the field issues" is fabrication from the good ol' boys of baseball who don't like his different method.

 

Maybe someone should point out that he hasn't exactly done well training his own way and using his own coach. Maybe he should listen to other people and not be so positive that he has the right answers.

 

Mod edit: Please leave political commentary out of the discussion

[SRB]

One organization. And the one he's with now seems to have no problem with him. Talent wise he blows Davies out of the water: more velocity, better breaking pitches, strikes out more, gives up less hits... I'm a huge fan of Zack but to say he's more talented than Trevor Bauer just isn't true. Bauer's biggest flaw is his walks and his walk rate has consistently dropped throughout his career.

 

Is that "talent" like how Mark Appel is the best pitcher in baseball right now?

 

Bauer (27) has 728 IP at this point and in part because of his lack of control he has pitched to a decent 4.15 FIP/4.11 xFIP

 

Due to better pitching intelligence and an ability to make use of his more limited raw stuff, Davies (24) has pitched 388 IP to a 4.05 FIP/4.18 xFIP.

 

Bauer: 8.8 fWAR over 123 GS (and a few relief appearances)

Davies: 6.0 fWAR over 67 GS

[jerichoholicninja]

I've been following Bauer for a while and have always been a fan. I don't think there is real off the field issues.. He just Marches to his own drum. He wanted to train his own way and pitch how he wanted to pitch, and used his own coach as mentioned. That team that traded him had Kirk Gibson as the manager, and my guess is that Gritty Gamer Kirk didn't love the fact that a rookie wasn't listening to his pitching coach, or his catcher (montero).

 

The guy is obsessed with the mechanical aspects of pitching. DBs didn't love him going his own way. Any talk of "off the field issues" is fabrication from the good ol' boys of baseball who don't like his different method.

 

Maybe someone should point out that he hasn't exactly done well training his own way and using his own coach. Maybe he should listen to other people and not be so positive that he has the right answers.

 

Hmm, not admitting you are wrong and refusing to listen to anyone tell you otherwise.

 

 

How exactly hasn't he done well on his own? Been healthy his whole career (how many pitchers can say that?), positive WAR every full season of his career, and he's pretty much improved every season. Human aren't one size fits all robots. The sports world is finally somewhat embracing that. If the Brewers hadn't messed with Taylor Jungmann, and he listened to them, he might be in a starting rotation in Milwaukee instead of Japan.

[MrTPlush]

Every new memeber needs to check out the forum rules and keep their political garbage out of here. Gag

[SRB]

The problem with Bauer is not his politics, it's that he's a huge jerk about it on Twitter. There are lots of MLB players with similar political views (Lucroy) who are not unlikeable jerks.

[jerichoholicninja]

One organization. And the one he's with now seems to have no problem with him. Talent wise he blows Davies out of the water: more velocity, better breaking pitches, strikes out more, gives up less hits... I'm a huge fan of Zack but to say he's more talented than Trevor Bauer just isn't true. Bauer's biggest flaw is his walks and his walk rate has consistently dropped throughout his career.

 

Is that "talent" like how Mark Appel is the best pitcher in baseball right now?

 

Bauer (27) has 728 IP at this point and in part because of his lack of control he has pitched to a decent 4.15 FIP/4.11 xFIP

 

Due to better pitching intelligence and an ability to make use of his more limited raw stuff, Davies (24) has pitched 388 IP to a 4.05 FIP/4.18 xFIP.

 

Bauer: 8.8 fWAR over 123 GS (and a few relief appearances)

Davies: 6.0 fWAR over 67 GS

 

Bauer: 5.9 fWAR over 59 starts last two years

Davies: 5.5 fWar over 58 starts last two years

 

And those FIP and xFIP numbers you cite are virtually the same. Bauer kind of sucked at the beginning of his career but has consistently improved since. Results wise, I'd say they're the same but in terms of "stuff" and "talent" Bauer is the clear winner.

[SRB]

Bauer: 5.9 fWAR over 59 starts last two years

Davies: 5.5 fWar over 58 starts last two years

 

And those FIP and xFIP numbers you cite are virtually the same. Bauer kind of sucked at the beginning of his career but has consistently improved since. Results wise, I'd say they're the same but in terms of "stuff" and "talent" Bauer is the clear winner.

 

Hence my original post that they are roughly equivalent.

 

Stuff you can't translate into games is not talent. Some of the most talented pitchers of all time had mediocre stuff.

 

Bauer is fine, he's a good pitcher, I just don't see how it's worth trading for him.

[PDXBrewCrew]

If he was doing his own thing and was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, he's doing something right. But doing his own thing has led him from being the third pick in the draft to being a mid-rotation starter that's on the precipice of being a non-tender candidate. MAYBE he might be better if he listened to someone else.

[WoahSolvdd]

If he was doing his own thing and was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, he's doing something right. But doing his own thing has led him from being the third pick in the draft to being a mid-rotation starter that's on the precipice of being a non-tender candidate. MAYBE he might be better if he listened to someone else.

And MAYBE he wouldn't. Glad to know, you know more about how someone you never met should train OR live. Just a hunch, but the person that knows Bauer best is Bauer.

[PDXBrewCrew]

And MAYBE he would. We can do this all day long.

 

All I'm saying is if he was having overwhelming success, then he knows what he's doing. If all he's doing is treading water, then MAYBE it might be beneficial to listen to other people. That he refuses to even entertain the idea of listening to anyone offering help just reinforces that we shouldn't have him anywhere near the team.

 

"I know what I'm doing and what's best for me, even though it isn't working great."

[pacopete4]

After further review, Bauer is too big of a tool for me to ever want to see in a Brewers uniform. Hard pass. Just because of the way he speaks to people. Hard, hard pass. (If there even is a deal to be had with him in it)

[travisteck]

If he was doing his own thing and was a Cy Young caliber pitcher, he's doing something right. But doing his own thing has led him from being the third pick in the draft to being a mid-rotation starter that's on the precipice of being a non-tender candidate. MAYBE he might be better if he listened to someone else.

 

He's a mid rotation starter on a team that had two pitchers in the top 10 of the AL for War. One of which is the Cy young winner. He'd likely be a #2 on most staffs.

 

If you don't like the guy that's fine, everyone has their own opinion, don't let it cloud your judgment of his talent just because he doesn't agree with you on something. I don't agree with his politics, but this is sports; his stance on anything doesn't change the fact that he's talented, and if he was on this team currently we'd be supporting him.