Stearns and Counsell- How much rope does each have?

[stoutdude04]

I dont know for a fact obviously, but I would imagine Stearns gets longer than 2020. I would think the powers that be would say something like, 'needs time to instil his philosophy'. Or something.

[FVBrewerFan]

With CC, there's more to it than wins and losses. Stearns will take into account whether the team is behind him, if he's lost them, if he feels he's the right guy to take the next step, etc. Does he refuse to play a guy Stearns wants on the field? Is he not using the bullpen the way Stearns wants? Just examples, but lots of behind the scenes stuff goes into it.

[rickh150]

With CC, there's more to it than wins and losses. Stearns will take into account whether the team is behind him, if he's lost them, if he feels he's the right guy to take the next step, etc. Does he refuse to play a guy Stearns wants on the field? Is he not using the bullpen the way Stearns wants? Just examples, but lots of behind the scenes stuff goes into it.

 

This is all true. Wins and losses are a pretty big chunk of it too, probably the biggest part, fair or not.

[istanbultaye]

My guess is Counsell would have to have 84 wins or fewer 3 years in a row, have an epic September collapse in that 3rd year and start off the next year with less than 10 wins by the end of April to get fired. I don't think Stearns gets fired in the next 5 years. It would be a lot more likely that some other team snatches him away than that he would get fired.

[rickh150]

My guess is Counsell would have to have 84 wins or fewer 3 years in a row, have an epic September collapse in that 3rd year and start off the next year with less than 10 wins by the end of April to get fired. I don't think Stearns gets fired in the next 5 years. It would be a lot more likely that some other team snatches him away than that he would get fired.

 

 

CC and DS both are at B+ if I'm grading..... neither are close to being canned. Very tough to compete as a small market in MLB. That could change quickly with CC if we make big moves at the break or in the next season plus to help the big league team.

[MrTPlush]

I think Counsell is pretty safe because the players seem to like him. Stearns is also pretty safe for the next few years at minimum.

 

That being said if you assume we have another flop after last year and next year is some kind of disaster what does it take for a manager to get fired. That would be some form of a disaster 3 years in a row.

[KeithStone53151]

With CC, there's more to it than wins and losses. Stearns will take into account whether the team is behind him, if he's lost them, if he feels he's the right guy to take the next step, etc. Does he refuse to play a guy Stearns wants on the field? Is he not using the bullpen the way Stearns wants? Just examples, but lots of behind the scenes stuff goes into it.

 

This is all true. Wins and losses are a pretty big chunk of it too, probably the biggest part, fair or not.

 

I tend to agree with a lot of the initial post here. I'm a big critic of CC's game day decisions, but that's honestly such a small chunk of his job. I think he's excellent in most other facets of the job, and I believe he'll get better at game management.

 

As for Stearns, I won't quite say he has Belicheat job security...but it's close. We look like we're going to be good for a significant stretch going forward, and Stearns has hit on trades much more often than he's missed.

[TURBO]

I think Counsell is a Brewer manager as long as he wants to stay. I think he has laid roots with our organization, so the only way I see him leaving is for a GM job.

 

Stearns, maybe a different story, however, I think the only way he leaves is for a bigger market job. Do we know what his dream job is? If he contiunes to have success with the Brewers, I can see another team come calling and PAY him BIG time!

 

Sedar could go today as far as I'm concerned, but it seems as long as Counsell and Stearns are here, the windmill is safe.

[cesser000]

Neither Stearns nor Counsell is on the hotseat, and they aren't going anywhere. But if they were let go, you can bet your life they'd each catch on somewhere else right away.

[clancyphile]

I think Counsell is a Brewer manager as long as he wants to stay. I think he has laid roots with our organization, so the only way I see him leaving is for a GM job.

 

Stearns, maybe a different story, however, I think the only way he leaves is for a bigger market job. Do we know what his dream job is? If he contiunes to have success with the Brewers, I can see another team come calling and PAY him BIG time!

 

Sedar could go today as far as I'm concerned, but it seems as long as Counsell and Stearns are here, the windmill is safe.

 

Not a bad thing... Counsell has helped turn the team around, and just needs a good 2B (Hiura handles that) an upgrade at SS (PLEASE trade Arcia to someone who over-values web gem defense), and maybe a better medical staff (Suter, Nelson, Davies injured this year... clear out a few trainers).

 

For me, I think Stearns's best move has been not to blow out the farm. Yelich was a good deal due to the length of control. Diaz and Yamamoto are the two prospects I least wanted to see moved in that deal. I'd have felt better if it was Brinson, Ortiz, and Dubon, but Yelich's done well.

 

He has otherwise avoided gutting the farm system, and that is a VERY good thing.

[coolhandluke121]

I dont know for a fact obviously, but I would imagine Stearns gets longer than 2020. I would think the powers that be would say something like, 'needs time to instil his philosophy'. Or something.

 

I should certainly hope so. He's already made the correct decision in so many moves and non-moves that it's mind-boggling. He gets more hits in 6 months than most gm's get in 3 years, and he's not exactly working with a stacked deck. Love the complainers who see a gm basically doing the equivalent of hitting .400 and decide it's time to whine about the outs he makes though.

[cesser000]

Love the complainers who see a gm basically doing the equivalent of hitting .400 and decide it's time to whine about the outs he makes though.

When Stearns took over in September 2015, many viewed the rebuild as possibly lasting 5 years or longer.

 

He got us back to contending after just ONE down year. We're not even supposed to be where we're at right now! He pulled it off, WAY ahead of schedule.

 

This team has improved their winning percentage each of the last 3 years, and I fully expect that trend to continue next year. I think we're right on the cusp and ready to breakout with some great seasons ahead.

[Ennder]

McCarthy should have been fired years ago. The Packers wasted the prime years of the best QB in the NFL because of McCarthy and Capers.

 

Stearns isn't anywhere near the end of his rope, he has done a fantastic job turning a roster around as fast as he has. Counsell is just a manager so they can fire him the first time the team stinks for a season or he starts doing weird stuff or mouthing off to the media and it isn't a big deal.

[FVBrewerFan]

McCarthy should have been fired years ago. The Packers wasted the prime years of the best QB in the NFL because of McCarthy and Capers.

 

Stearns isn't anywhere near the end of his rope, he has done a fantastic job turning a roster around as fast as he has. Counsell is just a manager so they can fire him the first time the team stinks for a season or he starts doing weird stuff or mouthing off to the media and it isn't a big deal.

 

OT I know, but yes!! Found the one other person who agrees on MM. I wanted him gone after the Seattle debacle, TT too. MM is very good at saying the right things to keep his job. Every year says he will change something, never does. His act is old, they needed a new HC years ago.

[SomewhereInTime]

I find it hilarious people on here are talking about "firing MM and TT years ago" when during their tenures the Packers made the playoffs 9 times with 6 division championships, 10 playoff games won, 1 NFC Championship and 1 Super Bowl. On the same day the Brewers are putting Melvin into the ring of honor with 2 postseason appearances, 1 division title and 1 postseason series win.

[Ennder]

I find it hilarious people on here are talking about "firing MM and TT years ago" when during their tenures the Packers made the playoffs 9 times with 6 division championships, 10 playoff games won, 1 NFC Championship and 1 Super Bowl. On the same day the Brewers are putting Melvin into the ring of honor with 2 postseason appearances, 1 division title and 1 postseason series win.

 

 

With a slightly above average QB instead of Rodgers the Packers are basically the Lions over that time frame. Rodgers has covered up a lot of ineptitude with the Packers. He is so great he can will a bad team into the playoffs and even win a playoff game or two, that doesn't make McCarthy a good coach.

[dlk9s]

I find it hilarious people on here are talking about "firing MM and TT years ago" when during their tenures the Packers made the playoffs 9 times with 6 division championships, 10 playoff games won, 1 NFC Championship and 1 Super Bowl. On the same day the Brewers are putting Melvin into the ring of honor with 2 postseason appearances, 1 division title and 1 postseason series win.

 

Having arguably the best QB in the history of football covers up a lot problems.

[coolhandluke121]

I find it hilarious people on here are talking about "firing MM and TT years ago" when during their tenures the Packers made the playoffs 9 times with 6 division championships, 10 playoff games won, 1 NFC Championship and 1 Super Bowl. On the same day the Brewers are putting Melvin into the ring of honor with 2 postseason appearances, 1 division title and 1 postseason series win.

 

 

With a slightly above average QB instead of Rodgers the Packers are basically the Lions over that time frame. Rodgers has covered up a lot of ineptitude with the Packers. He is so great he can will a bad team into the playoffs and even win a playoff game or two, that doesn't make McCarthy a good coach.

 

Melvin inherited a better situation than McCarthy and Thompson, even with Rodgers. A GOAT QB is the most important single position in team sports, but there are over 50 guys on a football team and the Packers had little else at the time. Meanwhile the Brewers had spent 10 years accumulating one of the best minor league systems this century, with some decent veteran assets at the ML level as well (Hall, Jenkins, Cirillo, Overbay, Posednik, Doug Davis, Kolb, Sheets, Turnbow, Capuano).

 

They should have averaged 90 wins for about 7-10 years, but they squandered it with impulsive moves and were little better than .500 overall during what should have been a long window of contention. And what do we get for it? Not only did we have to suffer with one infuriating, under-achieving Brewers team after another, but we have to listen to the b.s. narrative that Melvin and Mark A. "brought respectability back to Milwaukee by making the playoffs twice" forever besides. Makes me want to puke.

[tmwiese55]

Have to give MM and TT credit for Rodgers though. They drafted him and had the stones to go with him and face the backlash from pushing Favre out. If I recall correctly, they had to rework his throwing mechanics too after coming from the Tedford style. Are they perfect, of course not but there is credit in there too. Basically, if not for them the PAckers as one of the best few teams every year would have ended 10 years ago instead of 5 years from now. I remember the early days the crossing route offense they were running had the WR wide open. That's one of my main critiques of MM though, where has that offense gone the last few years. Now it just seems straight up improvising.

[TURBO]

Packer talk on the Brewers board?

 

UGH!

[OldSchoolSnapper]

CC and DS are not going anywhere any time soon unless Stearns voluntarily leaves.

 

I used to defend McCarthy and Thompson every year, about midway through 2016 when it was obvious the defense was awful again, I started to rail on Thompson's shortcomings. Going into last season I thought his last second defensive adds were jokes. He didn't adapt to a changing league. Capers also should have been canned after 2012.

 

McCarthy's seat is boiling. If they don't win the NFC I think he's gone. Gutekunst probably wants to fire him but knows he can't just yet. And I think he will be gone because I think we're going 9-7.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Also, I don't like cross comparing milestones in different sports. Making the MLB playoffs is extremely difficult. It's probably like making an NFC championship.

[SomewhereInTime]

Also, I don't like cross comparing milestones in different sports. Making the MLB playoffs is extremely difficult. It's probably like making an NFC championship.

 

12/32 is not much different than 10/30. Its not like GB is often #12 either.

 

That said, I'll admit there's quite a difference between being in baseball's smallest market compared to football's smallest market.

[SomewhereInTime]

I find it hilarious people on here are talking about "firing MM and TT years ago" when during their tenures the Packers made the playoffs 9 times with 6 division championships, 10 playoff games won, 1 NFC Championship and 1 Super Bowl. On the same day the Brewers are putting Melvin into the ring of honor with 2 postseason appearances, 1 division title and 1 postseason series win.

 

 

With a slightly above average QB instead of Rodgers the Packers are basically the Lions over that time frame. Rodgers has covered up a lot of ineptitude with the Packers. He is so great he can will a bad team into the playoffs and even win a playoff game or two, that doesn't make McCarthy a good coach.

 

No way to win as a coach then I guess, gotta win the super bowl every year.

[Ennder]

 

Melvin inherited a better situation than McCarthy and Thompson, even with Rodgers. A GOAT QB is the most important single position in team sports, but there are over 50 guys on a football team and the Packers had little else at the time. Meanwhile the Brewers had spent 10 years accumulating one of the best minor league systems this century, with some decent veteran assets at the ML level as well (Hall, Jenkins, Cirillo, Overbay, Posednik, Doug Davis, Kolb, Sheets, Turnbow, Capuano).

 

They should have averaged 90 wins for about 7-10 years, but they squandered it with impulsive moves and were little better than .500 overall during what should have been a long window of contention. And what do we get for it? Not only did we have to suffer with one infuriating, under-achieving Brewers team after another, but we have to listen to the b.s. narrative that Melvin and Mark A. "brought respectability back to Milwaukee by making the playoffs twice" forever besides. Makes me want to puke.

 

This really couldn't be more wrong. The QB in football has a bigger impact on wins than any single player in baseball can. Aaron Rodgers has a bigger impact on the Packers than Mike Trout does on the Angels and it isn't really close. You could put Aaron Rodgers on the Browns and they might make the playoffs. Also Melvin was tasked with rebuilding the fanbase, not building a long term contender. You are looking at this from completely the wrong angle. Melvin knew that they were tanking the future just to make the playoffs because it is what the team needed at the time after somewhat losing the fanbase by being bad for so long. Stearn's should not be about just making the playoffs, his job is to build a long term winner.

 

Babe Ruth's best season was 15 WAR. Barry Bond's was 12.7. The absolute best baseball players ever aren't worth even 1 win in a football season. Rodgers is worth 2 or 3, he is like a 30-40 WAR baseball player.