Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B [Post #220: Proposal for Braun at 2B]

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We can make the best out of a screwy situation and say that the players may be better off by getting more rest, but I can't believe that the plan going into the offseason was to get the team into a situation where we would have an All Star caliber player like Cain, Yelich, Braun, or Santana sitting on the bench almost every day.

 

Something went wrong with the plan, and seeing guys like Carlos Gonzalez signing for relative peanuts leads me to believe that the expected market for Santana was not there and we're now stuck with too many outfielders and less-than-stellar options for the back end of our rotation and second base.

 

I really hope Braun is able to play to an acceptable level at first base, as that opens up options. Unfortunately, that means we will likely jettison Aguilar who I like more than any of "the three-headed monster" at second or any of the group vying for the fifth starter spot.

 

The inability to trade Santana to fix one of these holes after we spent all of the capital we were going to spend (prospect and monetary) to land Cain and Yelich just leaves us in an odd position. We're still one of the better teams in the NL, it's just odd to sit an All Star while accepting mediocrity in some important positions.

 

You absolutely nailed the situation perfectly. The makeup of the roster is weird, which leads me to believe Stearns likely had some moves in place that fell through. But the notion that Santana is losing value because of a down spring is odd, to say the least. He's hitting a very respectable .276. Santana is what he is ... a lumbering corner OF who provides power, a decent average and a lot of Ks. Nothing he's done this Spring Training is disproving that. I've been all for trading him not because he isn't a good hitter or doesn't provide value, but because he doesn't fit the make-up of the team that Stearns is obviously trying to build. He seems to be placing an emphasis on defense and on-base skills, which just isn't Santana's game. I know there is still time to get things figured out, but the closer we get to opening day, the closer "let it ride" time with this roster sets in. Which means Aguilar likely gets the boot. Which is unfortunate.

[pacopete4]

It's weird but I keep seeing Braun's name penciled in the three hole in these spring training lineups.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I think Monty nailed what most Brewer fans are thinking of Stearns offseason plan having a domino effect by not being able to trade Santana.

 

I think Jesus Aguilar is also as good of a hitter as Santana and a perfect platoon partner with Thames.

 

I hate to have to lose him because of a poor offseason plan by our young GM.

 

Hopefully there are lessons learned from this experience.

[tmwiese55]

If they go Cain at leadoff I think it just makes sense to go every other, RLRL. If Villar rebounds and is back at leadoff (usually hitting LH) and everyone moves down a spot so be it.

[pacopete4]

I think Jesus Aguilar is also as good of a hitter as Santana

You don't really, do you? I mean I like Aguilar but as good as Santana? That is really pushing it.

[A Swing and A Drive]

I agree that Cain at leadoff and RLRL makes the most sense.

 

I prefer Yelich in the 2 hole.

[sveumrules]

Would I prefer that our roster looked a little neater on paper? Sure. I'd imagine Stearns does too.

 

Would I make a suboptimal move (either selling low or buying high on a player's perceived value to the organization) just to accomplish that task? No.

 

Very few teams have an ideally configured roster, especially ones with Milwaukee's resources.

[brewerfan82]

RLRL works nicely against LHP where you don't want Thames in the lineup: Cain, Yelich, Braun, Shaw, Santana... but it gets a little iffier making that work against RHP when you have Thames in for Braun at first or Braun's in RF and Santana's out.

 

But maybe you just put Thames in the lineup for whoever's out and not worry about the RLRL. Cain, Yelich, Thames, Shaw or Cain, Yelich, Braun, Shaw, Thames to start a game against a righty is pretty brutal, lol. And you can always pinch hit for Thames later in the game with Braun/Santana if they bring in a lefty.

[tmwiese55]

IDK, seems to make sense still doesn't it? Just putting two hear and not digging deep enough into days when Cain or yelich go out. You could get creative though and have Yelich leadoff with Cain second and subsequent flip flops, but not sure if that's needed.

 

When Thames is playing maybe:

Cain

Yelich

Santana/Braun

Shaw

Thames

C (If Pina is doing well can put him ahead of Thames and do it even more)

SS

2B

 

When Thames is not playing

Cain

Yelich

Braun

Shaw

Santana

C

SS

2B

[FVBrewerFan]

Looks about right, except Bandy hitting 6th when he starts.

[brewerfan82]

Yeah, that works for the top 4 hitters, you just end up with the back-to-back lefties once you get to Shaw - Thames

[tmwiese55]

Touche on that, yea just move up the other guys and put him 8th. Man I hope someone comes available due to a late camp cut that's better than Bandy, doubt it though

[monty57]

Would I prefer that our roster looked a little neater on paper? Sure. I'd imagine Stearns does too.

 

Would I make a suboptimal move (either selling low or buying high on a player's perceived value to the organization) just to accomplish that task? No.

 

Very few teams have an ideally configured roster, especially ones with Milwaukee's resources.

 

First, I think relative value is as important as individual perceived value. Second, it depends on how "optimal" you're looking. If we could trade Santana for a starting pitcher that had a little less than Santana's perceived value, I'd do it. The relative value lost from moving from Santana to Phillips/Broxton as the 4th OF is less than the relative value gained by getting a good starting pitcher to replace Gallardo, Guerra, etc.

 

I wouldn't trade Santana for garbage, but I wouldn't need to get 100% of perceived value if the trade would fix the roster by eliminating a logjam and filling a black hole. I just think that Stearns made the Yelich and Cain moves expecting that he'd get a decent return for Santana, but was offered garbage. Now we are where we are, and we'll make the best of it. There are worse problems than having too many good outfielders, but ideally we would have another good starting pitcher instead of an extra good outfielder.

[monty57]

Touche on that, yea just move up the other guys and put him 8th. Man I hope someone comes available due to a late camp cut that's better than Bandy, doubt it though

 

Bandy is probably fine if Pina repeats his 2017 numbers. As a backup catcher, someone who can play decent defense with some pop in the bat is alright. If Pina proves to be a one-year wonder and Bandy is required to play more of an everyday role, I think MLB pitchers would find a lot of holes in his swing.

[tmwiese55]

And hopefully it's mitigated as long Vogt isn't out long. Whatever on his D, but at least you should be able to trust him as a competent MLB bat.

[pacopete4]

per Adam McCalvy:

Another new(ish) position on deck for Ryan Braun, who expects to see some time in right field before the end of camp. He played two seasons there in 2014-15. All about versatility as the Brewers try to find ABs for all of their outfielders.

Per TomH:

Of Braun perhaps playing some RF in camp, Counsell said, "It's something he's offered to do. There could be scenarios during the season, depending on our configuration. It's not something we need to spend a lot of time preparing for."

 

 

Someone add this position to the title thread please. Santana too much of a turd defensively to play any position so 34 year old Braun will just play all 9 this season. Half blue. Love that he’s offered to do it too. Team player and has always been willing to do what’s best for the team.

[TJseven7]

There's been some talk that Braun should be the odd man out on this team because of his declining performance and inability to stay in the lineup. I was wondering if this is overblown, so I took a look at some stats over the past 2 seasons amongst MLB outfielders:

 

WAR ('16-17):

Yelich (5th - 9.0 WAR in 1354 PAs)

Cain (15th - 6.6 WAR in 1079 PAs)

Braun (32nd - 4.8 WAR in 989 PAs)

Santana (50th - 3.2 WAR in 888 PAs)

 

wRC+ ('16-17):

Braun (16th - 123)

Yelich (17th - 123)

Santana (21st - 121)

Cain (40th - 109)

 

Def ('16-17):

Cain (15th - 12.4)

Yelich (67th - -2.9)

Braun (109th - -12.8)

Santana (134th - -22.4)

 

BsR ('16-17):

Yelich (13th - 9.2)

Cain (37th - 4.7)

Santana (69th - 2.0)

Braun (109th - -0.6)

 

AVG ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):

Cain (8th - .295)

Yelich (17th - .290)

Braun (19th - .290)

Santana (47th - .271)

 

OBP ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):

Yelich (8th - .373)

Santana (11th - .363)

Cain (23rd - .353)

Braun (25th - .353)

 

SLG ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):

Braun (9th - .516)

Santana (25th - .486)

Yelich (41st - .460)

Cain (70th - .427)

 

Games Played ('16-17):

Yelich (4th - 311 Gs)

Cain (43rd - 258 Gs)

Braun (61st - 239 Gs)

Santana (67th - 228 Gs)

 

Games Played ('15-17):

Yelich (16th - 437 Gs)

Cain (34th - 398 Gs)

Braun (41st - 379 Gs)

Santana (95th - 280 Gs) *obv affected by him not being in the majors all year in '15

 

 

First off, those are 4 VERY good players and if we can get them all in the lineup somehow, that's pretty exciting.

 

That said, from a performance standpoint, I don't think there should be any doubt that when he's available, Braun should be in the lineup and if you put Cain and Yelich 1-2, Braun should be 3. From a "not being able to stay in the lineup" standpoint, considering there are ~90 starting outfielders in the majors, his games played seems pretty in line with your normal player over the past 2-3 seasons.

 

I think the real question is are they experimenting with the wrong player at 1st? Considering Domingo's worse in the outfield, would be a bigger target at first, and Braun is already creating some concern that playing 1st may actually be harder on his body than the outfield, it seems like they may have picked the wrong guy. Then again, first base is pretty involved throughout the game and maybe they just don't want Santana being near the ball that much if they can avoid it.

 

But but but... what about Thames lol. Braun has got to play 1st. Glad he's open to playing 1st and rf ontop of lf... and is offering to play ss and 2b which I'll politely decline.

 

Thames is a platoon guy. Please and thank you.

[pacopete4]

Thames could end up being a game changer off the bench too. No matter what lineup they throw out, they will have one of: Braun, Thames, Santana, Yelich, Cain coming off the bench. Game. Changers.

[brewcrewdue80]

Does Santana have an option?

 

Edit, I ask, because I see the roster playing out that Santana is sent to AAA. Phillips as the 4th OF. When injuries happen he's obviously called up to play. I just don't agree with Braun/Thames splitting time at 1b over Thames/Aguilar splitting time.

[adambr2]

Does Santana have an option?

 

I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

 

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

 

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.

[pacopete4]

Does Santana have an option?

 

I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

 

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

 

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.

 

I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.

[adambr2]

Does Santana have an option?

 

I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

 

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

 

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.

 

I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.

 

I'm all for depth, but if you can't find MLB ABs for good players, they're not doing you any good. That's just waste. We can't seriously be talking about wasting Domingo Santana's bat on our AAA team in a playoff hopeful year.

[pacopete4]

 

I'm not sure, but you just don't option a 3+ WAR 25 year old corner outfielder who hit 30 HR last year and OPSed nearly. 900.

 

It's bad enough that Phillips, Aguilar and Broxton are all forced casualties of roster construction and to some extent, even Thames.

 

The closer we get to the season with no end in sight to the logjam the more doubtful I am about the efficiency of this roster. I'd love to be wrong, and in Stearns I trust and all that, but I'm skeptical.

 

I’m still scratching my head as to why having too many good players is a bad thing. As an advocate of never having a guy like Niewenhuis in our lineup, I would think you’d love this type of depth.

 

I'm all for depth, but if you can't find MLB ABs for good players, they're not doing you any good. That's just waste. We can't seriously be talking about wasting Domingo Santana's bat on our AAA team in a playoff hopeful year.

 

Plenty of at bats to go around. The days of guys playing 162 games are over. Heck, even Yelich can play 145-150 and I would be perfectly fine with it. Fresh bodies all year long if they keep the current roster. If it comes at the expense of Broxton and Aguilar, so be it. We have 4 all star type batters in the mix. What’s there to complain about? Don’t lump me into that poster above. Who cares if he has an option. Unless he falls completely off a cliff it never comes into play.

[homer]

You are lowering Santana's trade value by not playing him everyday.

[pacopete4]

You are lowering Santana's trade value by not playing him everyday.

In my eyes, you aren’t. Other franchise know what he is. His value is about as high as it will ever be since I think his numbers last year are about his peak, he’s never going to be cheaper or have as much control. If he starts 135 games versus 150, it won’t diminish his value. GM’s are smarter than that. It’s just that there is a glut of slugging corner OFs that are limited defensively.