Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B [Post #220: Proposal for Braun at 2B]

[istanbultaye]

Where are these sounds coming from? He’s looked perfectly fine there from what I’ve seen. He’s made a number of nice scoops, saved a throwing error, quick tags, a run-down.

 

Braun himself made some comments about not feeling comfortable. There can be a difference between how a player feels doing something and the results that they have been achieving in those few games. In the article on brewers.com, Counsell has said that he looks to be progressing well, for what it's worth.

[clancyphile]

Yeah, I'm struggling to see why Braun plays over Santana when everyone is healthy.

 

Neither of these guys is in there for defense. Offensively Santana was better in just about every statistical way last year. One guy is 25 with upside. One guy is 34 and his body is breaking down.

 

You also lose the defensive benefit of having Yelich in LF by forcing him to RF just to accommodate Braun.

 

All true. And even if it's not, I'm not even saying that Santana is or will be better than Braun this year, or that Braun won't start in LF on opening day for posterity and possibly earn a little more playing time than Santana. I'm saying that the moves they made this off-season reveal that the front office is far more skeptical of Braun's value to the team moving forward than many fans here are.

 

I think you have a great point here. I sort of view the Brewers acquiring Yelich similar to the Packers drafting Aaron Rodgers in 2005. Is Braun done? No. Can he still be an effective player for several seasons? I'd say there's a decent chance. But they had an opportunity to acquire a player who could effectively be a "Braun Part II"-type, and they acted on it. Players like Yelich just don't hit the market. He was there because the Marlins were dropping salary in a complete rebuild, and he wanted out. The Brewers saw an opportunity to acquire a difference-maker at a palatable price, and they jumped at it, even though they still had a very solid LF option. Just like the Packers still had a very solid QB option when they drafted Rodgers.

 

I think the Brewers know that Braun still adds a lot of value to the lineup. But they also realize that he is 34 and has begun showing his age durability-wise. He's a guy that's great to have in the lineup, but can no longer be depended upon to show up every day. Yelich is their version of adding 2009 Braun to the lineup. It creates a logjam, but you find a way to make it work, because it improves the team now and in the future.

 

In 2016, Santana missed a lot of time, and Braun posted a .903 OPS.

 

You never can tell...

[jerichoholicninja]

Where are these sounds coming from? He’s looked perfectly fine there from what I’ve seen. He’s made a number of nice scoops, saved a throwing error, quick tags, a run-down.

 

Braun himself made some comments about not feeling comfortable. There can be a difference between how a player feels doing something and the results that they have been achieving in those few games. In the article on brewers.com, Counsell has said that he looks to be progressing well, for what it's worth.

 

It seems it's more about physical discomfort (his back) than about performance.

[coolhandluke121]

I'm saying that the moves they made this off-season reveal that the front office is far more skeptical of Braun's Santana's value to the team moving forward than many fans here are.

 

Fixed.

 

Not that I love either of them, but then why have they said Braun won't play RF even when Santana sits? If the plan was to trade Santana, that means they traded all those assets for Yelich to play RF. That seems more than a little sub-optimal as far as team-building goes. I mean it was certainly an option, but again, if they were really that high on Braun this year (some people here are regularly still calling him the best hitter on the team, even last year), it sure seems the offseason would have been dramatically different.

[tmwiese55]

Because Yelich is a way better OF than Braun and already has been playing CF the last few years so it's easier for him to switch to RF than it is for Braun. I'd assume him, Cain, Phillips can all plug and play in any spot on any day. Braun/Santana not so much.

[pacopete4]

I'm saying that the moves they made this off-season reveal that the front office is far more skeptical of Braun's Santana's value to the team moving forward than many fans here are.

 

Fixed.

 

Not that I love either of them, but then why have they said Braun won't play RF even when Santana sits? If the plan was to trade Santana, that means they traded all those assets for Yelich to play RF. That seems more than a little sub-optimal as far as team-building goes. I mean it was certainly an option, but again, if they were really that high on Braun this year (some people here are regularly still calling him the best hitter on the team, even last year), it sure seems the offseason would have been dramatically different.

 

Like tmwiese55 has stated, they want to use Yelich over there instead of jacking Braun back and forth. The offseason had to do with having the opportunity to add two-elitish bats to our lineup and they took advantage of it. I'm in the camp that thinks they had something lined up with Santana and it's fallen through or put on hold. And now with that happening, they will make due with starting Braun in LF and 1B. Cain will handle CF until he needs days off. Santana will play RF and probably not play it well. Yelich will be the jack of all trades and fill all three. There really isn't much more to this than that.

[tmwiese55]

I'd even guess they really liked Phillips as the 4th OF due to his great D so would have been happy with him getting a bunch of PT when Braun is hurt. We're unlikely to know anything anytime soon but I'd really think they fully expected to trade Santana and it didn't work out so they're going to make the best of it now.

 

One thing that pops into my head is Phillips options, say Braun gets tossed on the DL a couple times whenever he has a small injury and Phillips is brought up. He used some options already last year, so he might run out fairly quickly and force their hands somehow. Or I guess they'd just have to bring up a worse guy who has options.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'd even guess they really liked Phillips as the 4th OF due to his great D so would have been happy with him getting a bunch of PT when Braun is hurt. We're unlikely to know anything anytime soon but I'd really think they fully expected to trade Santana and it didn't work out so they're going to make the best of it now.

 

One thing that pops into my head is Phillips options, say Braun gets tossed on the DL a couple times whenever he has a small injury and Phillips is brought up. He used some options already last year, so he might run out fairly quickly and force their hands somehow. Or I guess they'd just have to bring up a worse guy who has options.

 

You only use one option per year, regardless of how many times you're shuffled back and forth.

 

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/minor-league-options

[TooLiveBrew]

I'd even guess they really liked Phillips as the 4th OF due to his great D so would have been happy with him getting a bunch of PT when Braun is hurt. We're unlikely to know anything anytime soon but I'd really think they fully expected to trade Santana and it didn't work out so they're going to make the best of it now.

 

One thing that pops into my head is Phillips options, say Braun gets tossed on the DL a couple times whenever he has a small injury and Phillips is brought up. He used some options already last year, so he might run out fairly quickly and force their hands somehow. Or I guess they'd just have to bring up a worse guy who has options.

 

You only use one option per year, regardless of how many times you're shuffled back and forth.

 

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/minor-league-options

For this reason, I really wish "option year" was the go-to phrase for baseball journalists, not just "option"

[markedman5]

Where are these sounds coming from? He’s looked perfectly fine there from what I’ve seen. He’s made a number of nice scoops, saved a throwing error, quick tags, a run-down.

 

 

Yeah he is going to be fine there. Just needs some more reps to feel comfortable with the different responsibilities......i.e. Cutoffs.....bunts ...etc.

 

CC says they are very pleased with how it has gone so far.

[tmwiese55]

I'd even guess they really liked Phillips as the 4th OF due to his great D so would have been happy with him getting a bunch of PT when Braun is hurt. We're unlikely to know anything anytime soon but I'd really think they fully expected to trade Santana and it didn't work out so they're going to make the best of it now.

 

One thing that pops into my head is Phillips options, say Braun gets tossed on the DL a couple times whenever he has a small injury and Phillips is brought up. He used some options already last year, so he might run out fairly quickly and force their hands somehow. Or I guess they'd just have to bring up a worse guy who has options.

 

You only use one option per year, regardless of how many times you're shuffled back and forth.

 

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/transactions/minor-league-options

For this reason, I really wish "option year" was the go-to phrase for baseball journalists, not just "option"

 

Surprising I never picked up on that, I guess I never really thought about it

[brewerfan82]

There's been some talk that Braun should be the odd man out on this team because of his declining performance and inability to stay in the lineup. I was wondering if this is overblown, so I took a look at some stats over the past 2 seasons amongst MLB outfielders:

 

WAR ('16-17):

Yelich (5th - 9.0 WAR in 1354 PAs)

Cain (15th - 6.6 WAR in 1079 PAs)

Braun (32nd - 4.8 WAR in 989 PAs)

Santana (50th - 3.2 WAR in 888 PAs)

 

wRC+ ('16-17):

Braun (16th - 123)

Yelich (17th - 123)

Santana (21st - 121)

Cain (40th - 109)

 

Def ('16-17):

Cain (15th - 12.4)

Yelich (67th - -2.9)

Braun (109th - -12.8)

Santana (134th - -22.4)

 

BsR ('16-17):

Yelich (13th - 9.2)

Cain (37th - 4.7)

Santana (69th - 2.0)

Braun (109th - -0.6)

 

AVG ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):

Cain (8th - .295)

Yelich (17th - .290)

Braun (19th - .290)

Santana (47th - .271)

 

OBP ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):

Yelich (8th - .373)

Santana (11th - .363)

Cain (23rd - .353)

Braun (25th - .353)

 

SLG ('16-17 min. 400 PAs):

Braun (9th - .516)

Santana (25th - .486)

Yelich (41st - .460)

Cain (70th - .427)

 

Games Played ('16-17):

Yelich (4th - 311 Gs)

Cain (43rd - 258 Gs)

Braun (61st - 239 Gs)

Santana (67th - 228 Gs)

 

Games Played ('15-17):

Yelich (16th - 437 Gs)

Cain (34th - 398 Gs)

Braun (41st - 379 Gs)

Santana (95th - 280 Gs) *obv affected by him not being in the majors all year in '15

 

 

First off, those are 4 VERY good players and if we can get them all in the lineup somehow, that's pretty exciting.

 

That said, from a performance standpoint, I don't think there should be any doubt that when he's available, Braun should be in the lineup and if you put Cain and Yelich 1-2, Braun should be 3. From a "not being able to stay in the lineup" standpoint, considering there are ~90 starting outfielders in the majors, his games played seems pretty in line with your normal player over the past 2-3 seasons.

 

I think the real question is are they experimenting with the wrong player at 1st? Considering Domingo's worse in the outfield, would be a bigger target at first, and Braun is already creating some concern that playing 1st may actually be harder on his body than the outfield, it seems like they may have picked the wrong guy. Then again, first base is pretty involved throughout the game and maybe they just don't want Santana being near the ball that much if they can avoid it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Santana has been terrible this spring. My guess is opening day Braun will be in LF and Santana will be sitting.

[tmwiese55]

Good post.

 

for your last question. My theory would be that it's been said on here by some (I don't know the source) that Houston tried him at 1st in the minors and it went horribly. He never even played minor league games at it because it was such a failure. How true that is I don't know. But they at least probably view Braun as a higher chance of success and higher level of play at 1B, combine that with Yelich being a better LF than RF and you end up with what they're doing.

[DR28]

Santana has been terrible this spring. My guess is opening day Braun will be in LF and Santana will be sitting.

 

Absolutely wasting Santana's value/potential.

[wildcat83]

The comments from Braun about squatting more and being harder on his back all came from like the first or second day of spring training didn't they? I have not heard anything from him since that time about playing first being more physically demanding. In fact in that same interview I think he said that he thought in the long run it would be less wear and tear on his body. I think that might have gotten over blown a little bit just because it was the first actual feedback from him playing first, and that is what everyone was going into spring wanting to see.

[MrTPlush]

Domingo Santana cannot play first base. It needs a sticky at the top of the forum. If that was even remotely possible don’t you think they would both be trying 1st base this spring. If I remember right this is something the Astros and was so bad he couldn’t see game action. Dude misses 5mph grounder you n the outfield. I can’t fathom one coming in fast with a bad bounce.

[tmwiese55]

If we're focused on opening day. I'd guess San Diego starts Richard who's a lefty. So they'd prefer Braun at 1B and Santana in RF. I think Braun will end up adequate at 1B, so combined with injuries this will sort itself out and they'll all get plenty of ABs. Jesus will be the odd one out and Thames will lose a lot of ABs from last year.

[coolhandluke121]

Comparing the last two years isn't that relevant considering Braun is clearly well past his prime and Santana is just beginning his. Recently you could have found a 2-year period where Pujols and A-Rod were better than basically every other hitter in baseball, but father time is undefeated. Even Braun is openly making tons of concessions to his age and injury problems. I don't understand why so many people here are having trouble doing the same thing.

 

I don't disagree with the general premise that Santana is the one guy you could make a case should sit to get more playing time for Braun in the outfield. That doesn't change the fact that, based on the moves they made and asking him to play 1B, they obviously don't see Braun as the team's star player at all anymore.

[sveumrules]

Santana has been terrible this spring. My guess is opening day Braun will be in LF and Santana will be sitting.

 

Absolutely wasting Santana's value/potential.

 

Not starting one game has no effect on Santana's value/potential. Even if all of Thames/Braun/Cain/Yelich/Domingo are perfectly healthy all year long (they won't be) there are plenty of PAs for everyone.

 

Keeping players well rested & facing favorable match ups may even result in better production.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Santana has been terrible this spring. My guess is opening day Braun will be in LF and Santana will be sitting.

 

Absolutely wasting Santana's value/potential.

 

Not starting one game has no effect on Santana's value/potential. Even if all of Thames/Braun/Cain/Yelich/Domingo are perfectly healthy all year long (they won't be) there are plenty of PAs for everyone.

 

Keeping players well rested & facing favorable match ups may even result in better production.

 

Pretty sure that's not what he was getting at. He's saying Santana will be warming the bench because he is not performing well in Spring Training. Which would be an odd decision after the season he had last year.

[tmwiese55]

It's because two years ago Braun hit great in all traditional stat category ways, and last year Braun did this when healthy. As of now, there's no reason to think Braun won't still hit very well when he plays. Missing the games and playing hurt are the problems with him, not that anyone doesn't think he's still a great hitter (DH can't get here soon enough). This year with all this depth they can toss him on the DL so much easier whenever he has another minor issue rather than trying to force it, I think it will all sort itself out throughout the year. With a couple weeks to go he'll be fine at D at first, it's not like Thames/Jesus are good at D either.

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2017/08/16/notes-hard-hit-balls-dropping-ryan-braun/570475001/

[DR28]

Not starting one game has no effect on Santana's value/potential. Even if all of Thames/Braun/Cain/Yelich/Domingo are perfectly healthy all year long (they won't be) there are plenty of PAs for everyone.

 

Keeping players well rested & facing favorable match ups may even result in better production.

 

Pretty sure that's not what he was getting at. He's saying Santana will be warming the bench because he is not performing well in Spring Training. Which would be an odd decision after the season he had last year.

 

Yes, thank you... I was talking about wasting Santana's value/potential with him becoming a 4th OF, which is insanely stupid.

 

I didnt see that JB put Opening Day... But still OD is San Diego against Clayton Richard, I bet Braun is at 1B and Santana is in RF.

[monty57]

We can make the best out of a screwy situation and say that the players may be better off by getting more rest, but I can't believe that the plan going into the offseason was to get the team into a situation where we would have an All Star caliber player like Cain, Yelich, Braun, or Santana sitting on the bench almost every day.

 

Something went wrong with the plan, and seeing guys like Garlos Gonzalez signing for relative peanuts leads me to believe that the expected market for Santana was not there and we're now stuck with too many outfielders and less-than-stellar options for the back end of our rotation and second base.

 

I really hope Braun is able to play to an acceptable level at first base, as that opens up options. Unfortunately, that means we will likely jettison Aguilar who I like more than any of "the three-headed monster" at second or any of the group vying for the fifth starter spot.

 

The inability to trade Santana to fix one of these holes after we spent all of the capital we were going to spend (prospect and monetary) to land Cain and Yelich just leaves us in an odd position. We're still one of the better teams in the NL, it's just odd to sit an All Star while accepting mediocrity in some important positions.

[tmwiese55]

Well said monty. Pretty much my take on it as well.