Ryan Braun Willing to Try Playing 1B and 2B [Post #220: Proposal for Braun at 2B]

[adambr2]

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Well, we know it was for Puig+McCarthy and 2 prospects and the hangup was the prospects, so just for fun let's see how that would have worked out.

 

Puig is a nice, reliable 3 WAR or so corner OFer, albeit with some character concerns.

 

 

The prospects would just be gravy at this point. It doesn't really matter if they were Dubons or Laras.

 

 

My main issue with it is just being attached to "the face of the franchise". You have to make tough decisions in order to stay ahead of the game. I don't like the NFL, but one thing they have right is that they have a culture of doing what's best for the team no matter whom they end up having to cut.

 

There's also the fact that they appeared to be a few years from contention, so it didn't make sense to keep Braun. Not to mention the fact that he was less than a year away from his 10/5 rights and now we're stuck with him.

 

I still have hopes that it could happen. The Dodgers have surplus LHB 1B guys like Rios and Beaty, who have no place on LAD with Bellinger there but could be ready to take over for Thames in a year or two. They also have some halfway decent bullpen or 4/5 starter prospects like Jordan Sheffield and Trevor Oaks. Maybe the Brewers could include a prospect or two of greater organization need for LAD (seems they might need a Dubon in case of injury, or an MLB-ready reliever like Williams) in order to improve the return. A catching prospect like Will Smith or even Keibert Ruiz would be great. Not sure if they'd have any interest in Broxton or Villar, but they might?

 

I really like the idea of freeing up more payroll in fall 2019 by swapping out Braun's contract for Kemp's, and it should be worth enough to LAD to entice them to offer something in return.

 

Yeah, franchise faces come and go. I guess the tangible part about that for the FO is concerning drops in attendance. I don't really buy into that -- I think people show up at the park for a winning team. I think we're long past the point where people are showing up at the ballpark to see Ryan Braun. Maybe not, I really don't know.

 

To me, he's a fairly lousy franchise face to have anyway now, especially for a smaller market franchise that may rely more on a franchise face than bigger markets.

 

I know some won't like that opinion and will disagree with it, and that's ok. But I would have preferred us to distance ourselves from him when we had the chance to, rather than further cementing his status as a Brewer.

[82brewcrew82]

It just amazes me that they spent the capital they did this off season just to end up with a roster with so many question marks and less than ideal comparability. I was really hoping those that thought Braun could grab 80+ games at 1B were right but that isn't looking good right now.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Sounds more of second guessing himself than anything else. Here is what Counsell had to say about his play per TomH:

More from Counsell on Braun playing 1B: "The process of being comfortable is not going to happen in one day. It's a process. But, so far, from all of our perspectives, he's done a really nice job at it."

Position changes aren’t easy but he’ll be alright. Props to Braun for being open and willing to even go down this road. Not every player would. And this isn’t the first time.

 

I agree. Typical Spring Training sore body story, only this time with a twist. I can't see the team using Braun as only a 4th outfielder, so I imagine as long as he adapts decently to playing 1B, he'll be out there 3-5 times a week. I'd be more than happy if Braun can play 80 games at 1B and another 50 in LF. Combined with being the primary DH in interleague games in AL stadiums, this should give him close to regular PT.

 

Braun is still arguably the team's best pure hitter. If he can play, you want him to play. Having a healthy Braun on the bench is a waste, especially considering he is probably 98% sure to miss time during the season with injuries.

 

With how much they are playing Yelich in RF, it's obvious they are trying to get him comfortable enough that he can play there when Braun is in LF. That makes me wonder if Santana may still be on his way out.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Interestingly, Braun added that because of the bending and squatting that are required for playing first, his new position has been “a lot harder” on his back than lining up in the outfield.

 

 

This alone makes me want to say scrap the 1B experiment, make Braun the 4th outfielder getting around 100 starts while giving the other 3 days off in RF/LF for rest and the inevitable injuries, and let Broxton/Phillips battle it out for 5th. Then keep the Thames/Aguilar platoon. It's not like Braun's going to start 150 games if the starts are available anyway, and now we're apparently wearing down his already fragile body.

 

Your set-up would force the team in to an 11 man pitching staff, in stead of the more likely 13 man staff they'd like to use a majority of the time.

 

Not sure how that's the case, Aguilar was on the roster all year last year without that being so.

 

That said, the more I think about it, there is an excess of one-trick players on our bench. Aguilar, Villar, Broxton/Phillips (not that super-utility OFs like Perez are super common). You can't help but feel like Stearns was confident he could move an OF before the season started and it just didn't materialize, because the position player roster doesn't make a whole lot of sense right now...

 

You figure Braun, Perez, and a catcher are locks. If you're going to go 13-man pitching staff (which feels almost required these days), that means you can keep only one of Aguilar (likely not with Braun playing 1st), Villar/Sogard (whoever is backup), Broxton, and Phillips. Hmm.

[brewcrewdue80]

This is ridiculous that his back after another offseason has issues being on the field. What work are you doing over 2 years that hasn't improved your ability to play a simple sport? I've been on his side here for so long but now this is growing on me to take the opposite side. You now he's at that stage like my daughter who just says they are sick because she doesn't want to get out of bed and go to school in the morning. I question Braun wanting to play baseball and coming up with lame duck injuries to take weeks off. Health technology today, his back should be good to go by now vs. complaining every month. I've worked for guys who could barely move around and swing a golf club, a knee surgery or back surgery and in less than 6 months they are praising the amazement how well they are feeling and their movement ability. You're telling me a MLB Superstar can't acquire the same treatment fix over the last 3 years by now?

[JosephC]

Despite looking over and over and trying to find fits for Braun and coming up empty, I still wonder if Stearns did have a deal lined up for Braun that fell apart after the Yelich and Cain deals were made. Doing both of those moves just don't make any sense with Braun on the roster. I guess we'll see how Yelich's arm plays in right field, because even though Braun probably should be on the bench with the current roster composition, I think it will end up being Braun-Cain-Yelich outfield.

[Never Outhustled]

Despite looking over and over and trying to find fits for Braun and coming up empty, I still wonder if Stearns did have a deal lined up for Braun that fell apart after the Yelich and Cain deals were made. Doing both of those moves just don't make any sense with Braun on the roster. I guess we'll see how Yelich's arm plays in right field, because even though Braun probably should be on the bench with the current roster composition, I think it will end up being Braun-Cain-Yelich outfield.

 

Braun isn't available often enough to be a regular anything. The present roster composition fits perfectly. Yelich, Santana, and Shaw will continue to out hit him too.

[DR28]

Braun as 4th OF, come on.... He will be hitting 3rd 5-6 games a week.

[MadThinker88]

Braun isn't available often enough to be a regular anything. The present roster composition fits perfectly. Yelich, Santana, and Shaw will continue to out hit him too.

 

And this is a big part of the reason I believe Braun should not continue to hit 3rd and Yelich should be there instead.

Even if CC wanted to maintain a L-R-L pattern, he could go Yelich-Santana-Shaw as 3-4-5

[coolhandluke121]

I would have preferred us to distance ourselves from him when we had the chance to, rather than further cementing his status as a Brewer.

 

Amen. I could not agree more with anything that's been said here this offseason. Everything positive and joyful last season was made possible by moving on from the past and embracing a new way of doing business, but keeping Braun was the most back-to-bad-habits thing they could have possibly done. And that's before you even consider the stigma of his PED scandal. I love the new front office, but they should be ashamed of themselves over this one.

[jerichoholicninja]

I would have preferred us to distance ourselves from him when we had the chance to, rather than further cementing his status as a Brewer.

 

Amen. I could not agree more with anything that's been said here this offseason. Everything positive and joyful last season was made possible by moving on from the past and embracing a new way of doing business, but keeping Braun was the most back-to-bad-habits thing they could have possibly done. And that's before you even consider the stigma of his PED scandal. I love the new front office, but they should be ashamed of themselves over this one.

 

So are you proposing they should have just released him? It's been widely reported that Braun will only approve a trade to the Dodgers. Stearns clearly tried to do that and it just didn't work out. There's really nothing else they can do other than release him.

[coolhandluke121]

Despite looking over and over and trying to find fits for Braun and coming up empty, I still wonder if Stearns did have a deal lined up for Braun that fell apart after the Yelich and Cain deals were made.

 

I don't know if it matters where he fits in because he doesn't want to go anywhere except maybe LAD. Fortunately, LAD is a good fit (Braun is still much better than Kemp in LF and would help LAD stay under the luxury tax this year) but what are they willing to give up considering they also have Joc Pederson in LF if necessary? That's the question.

 

I do think Braun would waive his no-trade-clause to play LF in LAD, but even that's not a given. The Angels might be competitive again, but they seem okay in the OF and at DH. Does Braun's trepidation about playing 1B cause him to consider more trade possibilities? If so, do his recent comments affect the Brewers' leverage?

 

It's just a bad situation with him, and it was kind of inevitable - if not because of signing free agents or acquiring guys like Yelich, then because of the in-house options they had.

[adambr2]

I would have preferred us to distance ourselves from him when we had the chance to, rather than further cementing his status as a Brewer.

 

Amen. I could not agree more with anything that's been said here this offseason. Everything positive and joyful last season was made possible by moving on from the past and embracing a new way of doing business, but keeping Braun was the most back-to-bad-habits thing they could have possibly done. And that's before you even consider the stigma of his PED scandal. I love the new front office, but they should be ashamed of themselves over this one.

 

So are you proposing they should have just released him? It's been widely reported that Braun will only approve a trade to the Dodgers. Stearns clearly tried to do that and it just didn't work out. There's really nothing else they can do other than release him.

 

No. I would have made damn sure that he became a Dodger on 8/31/16 when the chance was there.

[coolhandluke121]

 

No. I would have made damn sure that he became a Dodger on 8/31/16 when the chance was there.

 

Exactly. The Dodgers wanted him. Insiders much more credible than some of the ones we've had here said the Dodgers got cold feet about the prospects. Puig + McCarthy should have been more than enough. The Brewers looked a gift horse in the mouth and here we are.

[adambr2]

Braun as 4th OF, come on.... He will be hitting 3rd 5-6 games a week.

 

Where exactly? He isn't starting over Yelich, Cain or Santana. So if he can't hold up for 5-6 games a week at 1st we don't have many options.

[adambr2]

 

No. I would have made damn sure that he became a Dodger on 8/31/16 when the chance was there.

 

Exactly. The Dodgers wanted him. Insiders much more credible than some of the ones we've had here said the Dodgers got cold feet about the prospects. Puig + McCarthy should have been more than enough. The Brewers looked a gift horse in the mouth and here we are.

 

Yep. Playing hardball is great when you can afford to but when it's 11:30 pm and you've got 30 minutes before the window closes on your last chance to make a big decision, sometimes you've got to make concessions and get it done.

 

They had agreed on Puig, BMac, and 1 prospect. They couldn't agree on the second one. That was the time to swallow your pride and say "Let's get this done. We'll settle for the 3 we've agreed to."

[tmwiese55]

Braun as 4th OF, come on.... He will be hitting 3rd 5-6 games a week.

 

Where exactly? He isn't starting over Yelich, Cain or Santana. So if he can't hold up for 5-6 games a week at 1st we don't have many options.

 

When healthy Braun is the best hitter on the team. He will be in the lineup when healthy aside from the routine days off like he's been getting for years now. It's really that simple. Yelich will go the RF and Santana would be the odd man out. And of course they'll rotate as much as possible. And they won't hesitate to toss him on the 10 day whenever he has anything pop up rather than him playing through or taking 3-5 days off. He still has 3 weeks to get more and more comfortable at 1B so hopefully a couple starts per week can come there. But if a trade doesn't happen with Santana, throughout the year this will take care of itself with injuries to all 4 guys here and there. It all becomes much easier though if Braun can play 1B adequately.

[coolhandluke121]

 

When healthy Braun is the best hitter on the team. He will be in the lineup when healthy aside from the routine days off like he's been getting for years now. It's really that simple. Yelich will go the RF and Santana would be the odd man out. And of course they'll rotate as much as possible. And they won't hesitate to toss him on the 10 day whenever he has anything pop up rather than him playing through or taking 3-5 days off. He still has 3 weeks to get more and more comfortable at 1B so hopefully a couple starts per week can come there. But if a trade doesn't happen with Santana, throughout the year this will take care of itself with injuries to all 4 guys here and there. It all becomes much easier though if Braun can play 1B adequately.

 

If they shared your view of Braun's value to the team, there is no way they'd be in the situation they're in now. None.

[DR28]

Braun as 4th OF, come on.... He will be hitting 3rd 5-6 games a week.

 

Where exactly? He isn't starting over Yelich, Cain or Santana. So if he can't hold up for 5-6 games a week at 1st we don't have many options.

 

When healthy Braun is the best hitter on the team. He will be in the lineup when healthy aside from the routine days off like he's been getting for years now. It's really that simple. Yelich will go the RF and Santana would be the odd man out. And of course they'll rotate as much as possible. And they won't hesitate to toss him on the 10 day whenever he has anything pop up rather than him playing through or taking 3-5 days off. He still has 3 weeks to get more and more comfortable at 1B so hopefully a couple starts per week can come there. But if a trade doesn't happen with Santana, throughout the year this will take care of itself with injuries to all 4 guys here and there. It all becomes much easier though if Braun can play 1B adequately.

 

Thank you!!

[pacopete4]

Some people speaking as though they make the decisions on the lineup for the Brewers. Probably smart to let this one play itself out. If you don’t like Braun, he’s your 4th OF, should have been traded and the devil (somewhat kidding here). If you still see his value, he’s your 3-hitter and they’ll adjust position wise to make it happen. We’ll soon find out.

[clancyphile]

Just in the outfield, with 162 games, and three OF positions, each of Braun-Santana-Yelich-Cain could get 121 starts in a "rotation system," with two games left over. Plus, there are games at AL Parks - 2 at KC, 3 at Minnesota, 2 at Cleveland, 3 at the White Sox. On those ten games, all four are in the lineup, no sweat.

 

So, it's really 152 games, each with three outfielders. Which, if divided equally, means 114 starts in the OF, plus the 10 DH games that all four play - a total of 124 starts each.

 

If Eric Thames can give the Crew 135 starts at first (he was in 138 games for the Crew), that leaves 27 non-DH games where Braun plays first (roughly one game a week), and all of Santana-Yelich-Cain play OF. So, we have 93 "rotation" starts for each, plus 10 DH games, plus 27 "Thames sits" games. That comes to 130 starts for each, plus three games left over.

 

Think about it: Braun splits between LF (93), DH (10), and 1B (27), Yelich between CF (61) and LF (69), Cain between CF (101) and RF (32), and Santana in RF (130).

 

This also gives each player about five games off a month if healthy. Of those four players, here's how the OF is covered:

* Braun plays left field and right field

* Yelich can cover left field and center field

* Cain can play all three positions

* Santana can play all three positions

 

Hernan Perez has also played all three OF positions.

[TURBO]

Yelich and cain will not get 5 games off per month, you are saying that they take off more than one game per week? They didn't just trade the farm and drop that cash on guys that are going to play 135 games per year. Not gonna happen, nor should it. They may get an occasional day off, but I just can't see them playing that infrequently unless there is an injury involved.

 

We screwed up in getting them both without a new home for Domingo in place. Now we have a logjam on the roster, however, it will more than likely play itself out, so I'm not worried.

 

For all we know, Stearns has another pitching option in mind, there is still time...

[clancyphile]

Yelich and cain will not get 5 games off per month, you are saying that they take off more than one game per week? They didn't just trade the farm and drop that cash on guys that are going to play 135 games per year. Not gonna happen, nor should it. They may get an occasional day off, but I just can't see them playing that infrequently unless there is an injury involved.

 

We screwed up in getting them both without a new home for Domingo in place. Now we have a logjam on the roster, however, it will more than likely play itself out, so I'm not worried.

 

For all we know, Stearns has another pitching option in mind, there is still time...

 

Cain averaged 129 games a season over the last five years - his 155 in 2017 is a career high. The other four years saw no more than 140 games a season, two were 115 (2013) and 103 (2016).

 

Yelich four full seasons have seen an average of 145 games, lowest was 129.

 

Santana played 151 in 2017, but missed a lot of time in 2016 with injuries.

 

Braun has averaged 115 games over the last five years, with significant time missed due to injury/suspension in 2013, and a lot of time missed in 2017.

 

Each of these four gets 130 starts, plus appearances to pinch-hit/defensive replacement/double-switch as necessary.

 

Plus, Thames only had 123 starts - counting 18 in the outfield - in 2017.

[coolhandluke121]

Yelich and cain will not get 5 games off per month, you are saying that they take off more than one game per week? They didn't just trade the farm and drop that cash on guys that are going to play 135 games per year. Not gonna happen, nor should it. They may get an occasional day off, but I just can't see them playing that infrequently unless there is an injury involved.

 

Exactly. The front office is way ahead of the average fan in terms of understanding Braun's future place with the team. The writing was on the wall when they signed Cain after trading for Yelich. Yelich has never played RF and Cain's defense would be kind of wasted there. But they have made it clear that they had no intention of moving Braun to RF, as they have already said Yelich will play RF when Santana sits. There was no way of knowing whether he would be able to play 1B, and even if he could, Thames is better against RHP's anyway. You mean to tell me that they'd do all that if they valued Braun as highly as some people are suggesting? It doesn't make sense.

 

I understand it on some level. We once thought Braun would be the 2nd-greatest Brewer in history. It was great to have a committed superstar in a small market. But it's time to give up the ghost. Still hoping and praying a deal to LAD can still work.

[coolhandluke121]

I would like to add that the whole concept of expecting guys to miss time with injury and thus being able to get everyone 500+ pa's is missing one critical point, and it falls apart when you realize it. You can't count on the timing of injuries to be conducive to divvying up the pa's the way you're implying.

 

Injuries are unpredictable. If two guys are nicked up at the same time, the missed time doesn't automatically go to one of the other good players. What then? And when they're all healthy at the same time, you have to play the best players, which does not really include Braun at this point. Santana, Yelich, Cain, and Thames are all better, at least against RHP's.