Where is Domingo Going?

[HighHeat19]

Gotcha, I meant that it's done deal with Cain with a signed contract, just don't tell anyone. But yes you can only keep a lid on that for so long before someone leaks or another team figures it out and leaks. But in that scenario Cain wouldn't have to worry about MKE going back on their word like if it was just a verbal agreement. Maybe they only needed a bit more time but yes overall I know how difficult this type of thing is to pull off.

 

Personally I'm pretty low on Moustakas and his poor obp skills and general inconsistency over the years. But I do notice his K % is ok which fits their goals. Personally I'd stay away from Moustakas though. I hope it doesn't come to that and would rather just pay money to a FA P than him.

 

Agreeing to terms and not announcing to MLB creates huge fines and hot water. Let's say team F were interested in Cain and traded their top OF "thinking" that they can now sign Cain tomorrow to find out he already signed.

 

See Ex Braves GM John Coppollelia

[HighHeat19]

The Brewer's are trying to stay away from the K kings and poor defense. Hence Domingo, Brinson and Isan Diaz not high on the Brewer's list. Also the trading of Khris Davis.

 

But Stearns acquired Brinson and Diaz and we don't know that Brinson is a high strikeout player.

 

It's not that he'd be completely against acquiring/using them. If the Brinson package was the best he could get for Lucroy a while back, he took it hoping that A. Brinson could shake the Ks in the minors or B. he could deal him later, I'd imagine.

 

Or if you have a really good player like Santana it's not like he'd be completely against keeping him. Just prefers to get other types if at all possible.

 

It's like the old saying goes. "Bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush"

[trwi7]

The Brewer's are trying to stay away from the K kings and poor defense. Hence Domingo, Brinson and Isan Diaz not high on the Brewer's list. Also the trading of Khris Davis.

 

But Stearns acquired Brinson and Diaz and we don't know that Brinson is a high strikeout player.

 

Brinson had a horrible K rate in the minors didn't he? If it's been a problem there it's very unlikely to just go away vs MLB pitching.

 

No. He was 18.6% last year, 22.6% as a Brewer after he was traded in 2016 and 19.6% with the Rangers in AA in 2016. He struck out quite a bit as an 18 and 19 year old but he cut down on strikeouts dramatically since as he's gone up.

[tmwiese55]

Not as bad as I thought I heard people mention before, just in his very small MLB sample so far then.

 

And yea for the agreement thing I guess then yea you're dealing with handshake verbal things that are shady and Cain shouldn't take that risk.

[pacopete4]

The Brewer's are trying to stay away from the K kings and poor defense. Hence Domingo, Brinson and Isan Diaz not high on the Brewer's list. Also the trading of Khris Davis.

 

Oh no. Here we go again!

[homer]

My opinion is that Stearns isn't afraid of K's. He likes guys that can get on base and play good defense - preferably multiple positions. The fact that Cain and Yelich don't K was coincidence. Just my opinion.

[paul253]

Wait, are you saying that when the Brewers got Yelich and Cain that other teams wanted the Brewers to offer more because other teams feel that they lost leverage and lowered Santana's value? I was told that couldn't possibly happen

 

You and me both. I was told that even suggesting it was the equivalent of me thinking I’m smarter than David Stearns.

[KeithStone53151]

Wait, are you saying that when the Brewers got Yelich and Cain that other teams wanted the Brewers to offer more because other teams feel that they lost leverage and lowered Santana's value? I was told that couldn't possibly happen

 

You and me both. I was told that even suggesting it was the equivalent of me thinking I’m smarter than David Stearns.

 

I'm not surprised other teams are trying it, I just think Stearns is smart enough to wait. If a team was willing/able to do X deal, they'll come back to the table for X deal. I don't blame them for trying to use the leverage to improve their situation, but we have options available to keep us from getting taken advantage of. Phillips can open in AAA, Braun to 1b, and there are a number of teams in play for Santana...plus we can sign a FA pitcher instead of trading if needed. I'm sure the Santana deal will work out as Stearns had hoped, we'll see over the next week or two.

[TJseven7]

Wait, are you saying that when the Brewers got Yelich and Cain that other teams wanted the Brewers to offer more because other teams feel that they lost leverage and lowered Santana's value? I was told that couldn't possibly happen

 

You and me both. I was told that even suggesting it was the equivalent of me thinking I’m smarter than David Stearns.

 

Trying and accomplishing are very different things. Trying it is stupid and stearns told them appropriately to pound sand. Good luck with cargo fellas. Not to mention his comment was Archer. You can just as easily assume they just wanted more because its archer.

 

But hey if it fits your nonsensical narrative boast away.

[Boomer5]

The Brewer's are trying to stay away from the K kings and poor defense. Hence Domingo, Brinson and Isan Diaz not high on the Brewer's list. Also the trading of Khris Davis.

 

But Stearns acquired Brinson and Diaz and we don't know that Brinson is a high strikeout player.

 

Just about everyone Stearns acquired prior to Yelich and Cain is a high strike our guy.

 

Looks like he learned and is changing his mind on the guys he picked up.

[coolhandluke121]

4. Wasn't there a guy on here who pointed out a but of a huff puff about Melvin sticking his nose in the Cordell Ortiz Brinson deal when scouts wanted a lower ranked bigger quantity offer. I see the Burnes comment and just assume that TB made a Burnes instead of Ortiz play. Find it telling that cordell brinson are gone and the cheese (ortiz) stands alone. They could be 3 pieces our current FO never really wanted.

 

Great point. I had forgotten about that.

 

I'm glad to see HH saying that the Brewers seem to be chasing guys with better speed and defense and lower k%. I think those things are kind of intangibles right now in the sense that they're probably under-valued by the most common analytics. I think you get good value from guys like that and I've been hoping for this change for a while. We had the opposite of that for a long time in the Melvin era and the team was unsurprisingly about .500 in that era despite him inheriting a sick farm system and some marketable big league talent as well.

[TURBO]

I’d hate to see Shomingo and Phillips getting such little playing time, but we’d have a monster bench.

 

I’d also be good with a Burnes / Shomingo for Archer deal. Just like the Yelich deal, let’s deal for really good now instead of hoping what we have ends up being that good.

 

It would take more than Domingo and Burnes!

 

Then I hope we are out. Archer is not our TOR guy we need, #2 maybe, but #3 is more likely where he SHOULD fit. I have no interest in trading Burnes or Peralta, please, keep the arms on the farm.

[TJseven7]

My opinion is that Stearns isn't afraid of K's. He likes guys that can get on base and play good defense - preferably multiple positions. The fact that Cain and Yelich don't K was coincidence. Just my opinion.

 

I think you are half right here. He doesn't fear Ks. But at the same time its become apparent in their numbers that you can't have high k guys everywhere. Broxton and villar are replacement level dudes who K a ton. Shaw domingo aren't a problem k wise but the team composition crosses a statistical point of saturation with guys like broxton and villar. Adding yelich and cain helps correct that.

 

I don't think ks are necessarily bad... but at a certain team wide rate I feel zero value outs stifle an offense in a seismic fashion. Last year I did a write up about 10 ks and 3 walks. It's sample size poor and rudimentary but there's a strong correlation. We are making moves to put ourselves on the + side of that line more often. The astros did the same entering 2017.

 

Analytics are still developing.

[McRibMcLove]

I don't think ks are necessarily bad... but at a certain team wide rate I feel zero value outs stifle an offense in a seismic fashion.

 

I don't recall the difference between a K and any out in "cost", but there is a slight difference that doesn't necessarily matter in the short run, but overall it can. The brewers lead the majors with 1571 Ks and the Astros were champions with 1087. That's a difference of 484 times the "cost" of a K... Which could easily be a couple of wins. Not going to the extremes, but to the median for MLB in 2017 which was around 1335 Ks the brewers were 236 higher which could have been the difference between making the WC and losing by 1 game. I found this analysis of correlation between metrics and winning teams at Baseball America. Maybe this is part of the evidence leading to the Brewers moving away from high K players....

[homer]

Houston had a team OPS of .823. They were ridiculous in all phases.

[pacopete4]

Houston had a team OPS of .823. They were ridiculous in all phases.

 

That’s where we are heading.

[LouisEly]

My personal opinion is the influx of OF's are holding things up now. Dodger's would like to send Kemp and even Puig somewhere, but have little to no takers. Pirates and Marlins plan on pulling guys from AAA including Brinson to be part of their everyday lineup. This leaves a surplus of vets looking for work (See Cargo, Keon Broxton, etc) This decreases value of OF obviously. And decreases supply and demand.

 

This is what I have been saying for some time. As I've said before, I think this is why it was so easy to acquire Brinson in the first place, and why I was against drafting Ray at #5. OFs can be had for cheap because of oversupply.

[jjfanec]

Any thought this deal is waiting to see if darvish signs here or somewhere else. Not sure if a pitcher is necessary if we get darvish. Brewers could use santigo to improve other spots

[LouisEly]

I’d hate to see Shomingo and Phillips getting such little playing time, but we’d have a monster bench.

 

I’d also be good with a Burnes / Shomingo for Archer deal. Just like the Yelich deal, let’s deal for really good now instead of hoping what we have ends up being that good.

 

It would take more than Domingo and Burnes!

 

Then I hope we are out. Archer is not our TOR guy we need, #2 maybe, but #3 is more likely where he SHOULD fit. I have no interest in trading Burnes or Peralta, please, keep the arms on the farm.

Tampa has no urgency behind trading Archer. They can wait it out and ask what they want. Barring injury, he will likely be just as valuable at the trade deadline as he is now.

[82brewcrew82]

Any thought this deal is waiting to see if darvish signs here or somewhere else. Not sure if a pitcher is necessary if we get darvish. Brewers could use santigo to improve other spots

Did Santiago send you?

[LouisEly]

I don't know that it was Brinson's K rate as much as it was that his success in the minors was built on incredibly high BABIPs and that he is RH in a RH-dominant lineup. Like others have said, Yelich is what we hope Brinson can become. I don't think they thought Brinson was horrible; it's just that they didn't think he had as high of a ceiling as some of the Top 100 Prospect compilers. Brewers likely had him at #4 or #5 in their org with a B grade.

[homer]

Houston had a team OPS of .823. They were ridiculous in all phases.

 

That’s where we are heading.

 

 

Let's hope!

[JosephC]

My opinion is that Stearns isn't afraid of K's. He likes guys that can get on base and play good defense - preferably multiple positions. The fact that Cain and Yelich don't K was coincidence. Just my opinion.

 

Kind of agree on the K thing. Lots of people have talked about Yelich's low K rate, but Yelich's K rate really isn't that low. There were 287 batters that had 300+ plate appearances last year. Out of those 287, Yelich ranked #127 with a K rate of 19.7%. So he's in the top half, but not in the top 40%. That's not a real notable K rate IMO. I'd argue it had more to do with not making outs. Yelich #44 in and Cain #54 in OBP. That puts both in the top 20%.

[paul253]

But hey if it fits your nonsensical narrative boast away

 

Wow. I realize it’s hard to admit you’re wrong but I think you’re taking this to a new level. My “boast” was that perhaps his value decreased. If you believe what HighHeat19 said that’s exactly what happened. I’m not looking for recognition or anything. But what I am looking for is that posters like you stop being so close minded and shooting down others’ opinions so fast because you disagree with them.

 

Back when we had our little back and forth you essentially stated as fact that Santana’s value wasn’t decreasing and that Stearns wasn’t running out of options to move him. If you don’t want to take Highheats posts as fact then fine. But are you really going to double down on your closed mindedness and call my opinion “nonsensical” when other well informed posters have suggested it is exactly what is happening?

 

Trying and accomplishing are very different things. Trying it is stupid and stearns told them appropriately to pound sand. Good luck with cargo fellas. Not to mention his comment was Archer. You can just as easily assume they just wanted more because its archer

 

Did you actually read what he said? “After the Brewer's acquisition of the OF's, it is known that Tampa upped what they wanted in return (Corbin Burnes) in a package for Archer. ”. So they all of a sudden decided they wanted more for Archer and it had absolutely nothing to do with the Brewers acquiring the additional outfielders? I guess we interpreted his post quite differently.

 

And yes trying and accomplishing are different. But that has nothing to do with the argument. If TB decided they wanted more for Santana then common sense dictates that don’t value him as highly as they did before.

 

At this point I’m guessing Santana stays with the Brewers. Just my gut feeling. I actually wouldn’t mind them trying to move Aguilar or Thames at this point.

[nate82]

I don't believe Santana is going any where. I believe it might be Thames or Shaw who will be going some where.