Where is Domingo Going?

[anglotiger]

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

 

That's an unprovable assertion either way without actually asking them - and I strongly suspect that you didn't take the time to do so before making the claim on their behalf.

 

You're welcome to your opinion, but you really shouldn't be so condescending when people don't agree with you.

[KeithStone53151]

 

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

 

You are free to leave, no one is keeping you here. Bye.

Bye Felicia....

 

Seriously you guys..., his trade proposal wasn't all that far off from even value. I think Santana has slightly more value than Salazar due to durability concerns and his issues in 2017, and Shaw has slightly more value than Mejia only because he's in his prime and has had success while Mejia has yet to have MLB success. Mejia has hit well in the minors but not for a ton of power and he's a question mark to stick behind the plate. If he does stick, he'll be a below average receiver. If power develops his bat will play anywhere, but if he's more of a 15-20 hr guy at peak he wouldn't play well at 3b or 1b. I like Mejia, but he isn't quite worth Shaw for me.

 

Aside from value, I'm not sure I like the idea of trading Shaw just yet. I don't think his value goes down a ton after this year, especially as a 27/28 year old currently. I'd be more inclined to trade him next offseason or the following deadline when Erceg is closer to ready, otherwise replacing him can be difficult. I think there are other ways to target the guys noted that are a better fit for the Brewers.

 

And I would avoid mocking someone's trade proposals in general, maybe state why you don't think it's fair or leave it alone, but no need to mock it...Especially considering one of you guys proposed Santana and Williams for Kipnis/Salazar/Mejia and were serious. I don't see people lining up to mock that one and telling you to leave the forums and that's not even close to a realistic proposal.

[TJseven7]

Correct keith and chl. The value was close. Adding mckenzie makes it horribly lopsided. The issue is making 2 win increasing moves then dealing the middle of your lineup away for prospects, great but still prospects. It's certainly a step back for 2018, and shaw doesn't have a replacement all that close.

 

Value wise makes sense. Team composition, I just dont know. Mejia would have to explode immediately to salvage the offense if we did that.

[KeithStone53151]

Correct keith and chl. The value was close. Adding mckenzie makes it horribly lopsided. The issue is making 2 win increasing moves then dealing the middle of your lineup away for prospects, great but still prospects. It's certainly a step back for 2018, and shaw doesn't have a replacement all that close.

 

Value wise makes sense. Team composition, I just dont know. Mejia would have to explode immediately to salvage the offense if we did that.

 

I didn't imply that strongly enough, but I agree on the team composition. We very recently had a very RH dominant lineup for a long stretch, I like having the power hitting lefties that we currently have. I have to think a move of Shaw would include signing Moustakas or Frazier or making some other move at 3b, even if moving him is unlikely.

 

I tend to agree on McKenzie. I like the idea of targeting him, but I imagine he's pretty much off limits in almost any trade scenario.

[mrn1ceguy]

 

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

 

You are free to leave, no one is keeping you here. Bye.

 

 

Seriously you guys..., his trade proposal wasn't all that far off from even value. I think Santana has slightly more value than Salazar due to durability concerns and his issues in 2017, and Shaw has slightly more value than Mejia only because he's in his prime and has had success while Mejia has yet to have MLB success. Mejia has hit well in the minors but not for a ton of power and he's a question mark to stick behind the plate. If he does stick, he'll be a below average receiver. If power develops his bat will play anywhere, but if he's more of a 15-20 hr guy at peak he wouldn't play well at 3b or 1b. I like Mejia, but he isn't quite worth Shaw for me.

 

Aside from value, I'm not sure I like the idea of trading Shaw just yet. I don't think his value goes down a ton after this year, especially as a 27/28 year old currently. I'd be more inclined to trade him next offseason or the following deadline when Erceg is closer to ready, otherwise replacing him can be difficult. I think there are other ways to target the guys noted that are a better fit for the Brewers.

 

And I would avoid mocking someone's trade proposals in general, maybe state why you don't think it's fair or leave it alone, but no need to mock it...Especially considering one of you guys proposed Santana and Williams for Kipnis/Salazar/Mejia and were serious. I don't see people lining up to mock that one and telling you to leave the forums and that's not even close to a realistic proposal.

 

I'm fairly certain the bolded line above is what people took issue with. If you are making a post about rather being at a different forum because the posters at the other board are better, that's a dig to everyone here. They weren't saying to leave because of the trade proposal or defending it, rather that if a poster prefers the company of a different board, no one here is stopping them from leaving.

[TJseven7]

Correct keith and chl. The value was close. Adding mckenzie makes it horribly lopsided. The issue is making 2 win increasing moves then dealing the middle of your lineup away for prospects, great but still prospects. It's certainly a step back for 2018, and shaw doesn't have a replacement all that close.

 

Value wise makes sense. Team composition, I just dont know. Mejia would have to explode immediately to salvage the offense if we did that.

 

I didn't imply that strongly enough, but I agree on the team composition. We very recently had a very RH dominant lineup for a long stretch, I like having the power hitting lefties that we currently have. I have to think a move of Shaw would include signing Moustakas or Frazier or making some other move at 3b, even if moving him is unlikely.

 

I tend to agree on McKenzie. I like the idea of targeting him, but I imagine he's pretty much off limits in almost any trade scenario.

 

Yes but even with the santana shaw to phillips moose/Frazier swap we are still short on offense. In 2 years if we can get the upside of mejia huira at C and 2b well then you are on to something big. But cain yelich would point towards not wanting to wait 2 years.

 

I'm 100% set on keep santana moving braun to 1st as is. And im 100% dreaming of yelich cain phillips with hopes that Huira run to the majors and can step in and make phillips huira comparable to santana villar/sogard.

 

Until 2b SS C become plus offensive positions we can't easily jettison santana let alone shaw while keeping the offense as impactful as we needd it to be with the staff we have. Even adding salazar cobb or arrieta doesnt solve that. Teams close to a very solid rotation and pen (1 more starter and get nelson back, fperalta being hader part 2) but its not ace heavy, which is very hard to do so our hrs need to be multi run producing and a 5 pack of yelich cain thames/braun santana shaw puts us in a good place to do just that.

[BrewCity22]

First post my friends, but why has no one speculated a trade for Sean Manaea and Jed Lowrie. Wouldn’t take a ton to pry these two from Oakland for Domingo and a prospect

[young guns]

Do you think this team currently has enough starting pitching even if they sign a FA pitcher?

 

No they definitely do not. Especially at the higher end.

I'm wondering if maybe Stearns might think we have enough, not for a playoff run, but to get us to the all-star break where we will have Nelson back(and hopefully pitching like last year) and can trade for a top end pitcher. I don't know if it would work, but it would be the lowest risk move as I can see it.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Do you think this team currently has enough starting pitching even if they sign a FA pitcher?

 

No they definitely do not. Especially at the higher end.

I'm wondering if maybe Stearns might think we have enough, not for a playoff run, but to get us to the all-star break where we will have Nelson back(and hopefully pitching like last year) and can trade for a top end pitcher. I don't know if it would work, but it would be the lowest risk move as I can see it.

 

The best time to trade for starting pitching is right now. At the deadline the sellers will hold all of the contenders hostage. Do not wait DS

[KeithStone53151]

I'm kinda wondering if we had a deal lined up for Santana as HH19 had noted, but the other team tried reducing their offer after our 2 moves on Friday. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what's going on with him, I doubt anything is announced today.

 

Or other teams have shown interest since the moves last week, causing Stearns to reconsider. Cheap, young power-hitting corner outfielders don't come up on the market very often. Having guys like J.D. Martinez and Carlos Gonzales still out there probably doesn't help. Santana is kind of a "poor man's version" of them.

 

I think both guys are mostly irrelevant to the Santana market. JD Martinez is going to cost at least $100 million, Cleveland can't afford that period...so he's irrelevant in our conversations with them. The Red Sox may prefer Martinez to Santana, but maybe they prefer to pay prospects for Santana instead of the big salary for Martinez. The Blue Jays were in on Cain and Yelich, so they may have interest in Santana. Looking at the free agent list, there aren't a ton of quality options available. There are more guys comparable to what Phillips or Broxton might be than to what Santana is. I don't see anyone besides Martinez capable of hitting 30 HR. Maybe Bautista if you get lucky and want to deal with similarly poor defense and a likely sub 230 avg.

[Devinep]

First post my friends, but why has no one speculated a trade for Sean Manaea and Jed Lowrie. Wouldn’t take a ton to pry these two from Oakland for Domingo and a prospect

 

Interesting idea. But 2017 was likely better than Lowrie going forward if you look at his previous years m. Oakland’s alsonuangnhim as a means to keep Barrett in the minors to start the year

[reillymcshane]

First post my friends, but why has no one speculated a trade for Sean Manaea and Jed Lowrie. Wouldn’t take a ton to pry these two from Oakland for Domingo and a prospect

Welcome BrewCity22.

 

I think your question is a good one. People have talked about Manaea and Lowrie - but it's been a while and I don't recall what threads.

 

I'd suggest starting a new thread on Manaea if you are interested in more focused conversation. Trying to start it in this thread might cause it to get lost. Plus, there might be offers that aren't specifically about Santana that people will want to throw out.

[KeithStone53151]

First post my friends, but why has no one speculated a trade for Sean Manaea and Jed Lowrie. Wouldn’t take a ton to pry these two from Oakland for Domingo and a prospect

 

Interesting idea. But 2017 was likely better than Lowrie going forward if you look at his previous years m. Oakland’s alsonuangnhim as a means to keep Barrett in the minors to start the year

 

I've thought about targeting Manaea, he's not as established as the other guys being targeted but very well could break out. It's also hard to logically analyze what a trade with them would look like, Beane is very unconventional.

[wildcat2237]

First post my friends, but why has no one speculated a trade for Sean Manaea and Jed Lowrie. Wouldn’t take a ton to pry these two from Oakland for Domingo and a prospect

 

Interesting idea. But 2017 was likely better than Lowrie going forward if you look at his previous years m. Oakland’s alsonuangnhim as a means to keep Barrett in the minors to start the year

 

I've thought about targeting Manaea, he's not as established as the other guys being targeted but very well could break out. It's also hard to logically analyze what a trade with them would look like, Beane is very unconventional.

 

Welcome, Brewcity. Excellent first post.

 

I dont think Manaea is a good fit because he is a bit of a "tweener." What I mean by that is that in a trade for Santana the Brewers are likely going to be looking at either 1. sending Santana and prospects away for a TOR type or 2. trading Santana for high end prospects like Mejia.

 

Manaea is far from a gas can, but he is not really a prospect at this point and really has not yet established himself as a TOR type.

 

Santana represents the Brewers one big surplus piece that can be used to recoup part of the Yelich haul or get a TOR pitcher to sit next to Anderson and Nelson.

[Boomer5]

Would anyone trade Santana and Shaw for Mejia + Salazar? I would be a wreck if I had to make that decision. I think I'd probably close my eyes, take a deep breath, and pull the trigger.

 

While I do think that's what it would take to land Mejia, I'm not sure how that helps the Brewers this year unless we go out and get another third baseman?

 

We would need a 3B and honestly I'm not in love with Salazar as a TOR type because of his durability.

[brewmann04]

We finally found a Good 3rd baseman don"t think this is the time to move him.

[djd1228]

Would anyone trade Santana and Shaw for Mejia + Salazar? I would be a wreck if I had to make that decision. I think I'd probably close my eyes, take a deep breath, and pull the trigger.

 

While I do think that's what it would take to land Mejia, I'm not sure how that helps the Brewers this year unless we go out and get another third baseman?

 

We would need a 3B and honestly I'm not in love with Salazar as a TOR type because of his durability.

 

If we were still in rebuild mode, maybe but you dont give up two young middle of the order bats when you want to compete for a prospect and a possible TOR starter but not a sure thing. Id hate this if they did it.

[narwhalattack]

 

Welcome, Brewcity. Excellent first post.

 

I dont think Manaea is a good fit because he is a bit of a "tweener." What I mean by that is that in a trade for Santana the Brewers are likely going to be looking at either 1. sending Santana and prospects away for a TOR type or 2. trading Santana for high end prospects like Mejia.

 

Manaea is far from a gas can, but he is not really a prospect at this point and really has not yet established himself as a TOR type.

 

Santana represents the Brewers one big surplus piece that can be used to recoup part of the Yelich haul or get a TOR pitcher to sit next to Anderson and Nelson.

 

I do wonder if the fact that Manaea is a "tweener" makes him slightly cheaper, although perhaps his youth will make him quite expensive.

[coolhandluke121]

Sorry but I'm kind of shocked that it wouldn't even be a difficult decision for some people. With all due respect, you're being a homer if you can't see the value you'd be getting in a Shaw/Santana for Mejia/Salazar deal. Shaw is far from a lock to be our 3b of the future. Santana is a better bet to duplicate last year's success, but you'd probably be selling high on him as well.

 

You're talking about arguably the #1 prospect in all of baseball at the hardest position to fill, one which also happens to be the position of greatest need for the Brewers. Honestly there's a good chance Pina and Vogt will completely bomb this year, as they're both over 30. Mejia could be so much better than them by default that it could make up the difference between Shaw and a replacement level player like Perez at 3b, let alone the boost to the rotation from Salazar. And you'd still have a chance to sign a guy like Moustakas if you really wanted to.

 

It makes me wonder what you would have said about trading Villar and Braun for Mejia last year, or trading McGehee and Hart for a top-3 prospect after McGehee's breakout year in 2009, which was eerily similar to Shaw's year in terms of age and trajectory. In both cases, you have a similar dynamic of guys who aren't really safe bets to duplicate their recent success, one of whom also had defensive issues at one of the easiest positions to play, and both at positions where it's not that hard to find replacements. I know it would be hard to take a potential step back this year, but it would be too good of a value to pass up for me.

[Dadbauer]

IF it netted Mejia and Salazar I wouldn't have a huge problem trading Shaw along with Santana - you could then sign Nunez and move Villar to third and still have a pretty potent lineup.

[adambr2]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/rosenthals-latest-mets-domingo-nationals-kipnis.html

 

Rosenthal quotes rival executives saying that Santana is “a bad defender” and “not a winning player.”

 

Not a winning player? What a completely douchey thing to say behind the wall of anonymity. Seemed like he was a pretty big part of us winning 86 games last year. Seemed like a pretty winning player when he broke a scoreless tie in a pitcher's duel by homering off Clayton Kershaw.

 

I understand it's all posturing, but knowing something like that will be public, seems like a cowardly thing to say knowing you'll never have to answer for it and it's a completely impossible to define thing that you could literally say about anyone in an effort to downplay their value.

 

Bad defender? Sure, that's true. "Not a winning player?" Give me a break.

 

Come on folks. Santana is on the trade block.

 

Rival GM's are not going to tell Rosenthal, "Santana is a stud who hit 30 bombs last year. He can play OF and would make an excellent DH. We plan to pay through the nose for him."

 

Of course they are going to tell Rosenthal he is a bum. The Brewers need to unload an outfielder and rival GM's know it. They are going to play their hand close.

 

There is a difference between posturing and being an unprofessional dink.

 

If he had said, "we have concerns about his K rate" or even "he's a lousy defender in right", I wouldn't have an issue. "He's not a winning player" is personal and just making stuff up.

[StearnsFTW]

 

I don't like him much but maybe. I'd probably give Perez a shot. I think the long-term boost at catcher and getting a solid starter would be worth the price. I don't expect Pina and Vogt to be productive again this year. I think Shaw is a major regression candidate. When you're getting an elite prospect at the position of greatest need by far in the entire organization, it could very well be a matter of giving up two $5's for a $10 and a couple $1's.

 

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

 

 

Yeah, that's a great board. Just ask 'em.

[KeithStone53151]

Sorry but I'm kind of shocked that it wouldn't even be a difficult decision for some people. With all due respect, you're being a homer if you can't see the value you'd be getting in a Shaw/Santana for Mejia/Salazar deal. Shaw is far from a lock to be our 3b of the future. Santana is a better bet to duplicate last year's success, but you'd probably be selling high on him as well.

 

You're talking about arguably the #1 prospect in all of baseball at the hardest position to fill, one which also happens to be the position of greatest need for the Brewers. Honestly there's a good chance Pina and Vogt will completely bomb this year, as they're both over 30. Mejia could be so much better than them by default that it could make up the difference between Shaw and a replacement level player like Perez at 3b, let alone the boost to the rotation from Salazar. And you'd still have a chance to sign a guy like Moustakas if you really wanted to.

 

It makes me wonder what you would have said about trading Villar and Braun for Mejia last year, or trading McGehee and Hart for a top-3 prospect after McGehee's breakout year in 2009, which was eerily similar to Shaw's year in terms of age and trajectory. In both cases, you have a similar dynamic of guys who aren't really safe bets to duplicate their recent success, one of whom also had defensive issues at one of the easiest positions to play, and both at positions where it's not that hard to find replacements. I know it would be hard to take a potential step back this year, but it would be too good of a value to pass up for me.

 

I get that Mejia is a good prospect, but I've pointed out his issues on defense and limited power. What if he winds up being a catcher that hits 280-290 with decent obp, 10-15 hr power, and subpar behind the plate? That outcome is probably more likely than being Posey-lite.

 

And I don't think anybody is opposed to targeting Shaw or saying the value isn't reasonably equal, I just think there are other ways to get a deal done for Mejia if he is indeed a target. I'd prefer to use other resources.

[JosephC]

I don't think there is any posturing going on in regards to Santana. He has some very good attributes (power, OBP) but has some very negative attributes as well (K%, defense). I still think he's a real wild card who could just keep doing what he did last year (solid 3+ WAR player) or could take a dramatic swing downward (probably still be a 1.5 WAR player because he'd still hit home runs and likely would maintain at least a respectable OBP). IMO he's one of the harder players to project going forward.

 

Salazar is in the same boat but for different reasons. No question that when he's on the mound he is good. At least 10 major league starts in five years and his worst annual FIP is 3.74. But he's a risk in that his innings total could go up or down. If he's on the mound for 540 innings over the next three seasons, it's really hard to see the team that would trade for him being on the short end of stick. But if he's only on the mound for 250 innings, he'd be a disappointment for whoever acquired him.

 

I still think this would be a deal that makes sense for both sides. Both sides fill a need, is trading from surplus and assumes more than normal risk IMO. Since Santana is controlled for one more season (at a minimal salary), Cleveland needs to add a little more to balance it out. However, if Santana had one more year of control and was in the same place as Salazar, I feel a straight-up deal would be fair for both sides.

 

I still don't see Mejia as being a realistic piece in any Cleveland/Milwaukee deal and am surprised that people still want to go down that dead-end.

[pacopete4]

Brewers Get: Eduardo Rodriguez, Tanner Houck, & Blake Swihart

 

Red Sox Get: Domingo Santana