Where is Domingo Going?

[Eye Black]

I apologize if this has already been discussed in this thread, but what teams (besides Cleveland) still have a need for a RH hitting OF or DH?

Going off of MLB Roster Resource these are the AL teams looking for either OF help or a DH (in addition to the Indians)...

 

Tigers

White Sox (do have some prospects as options for the OF)

Rangers (need a CF more than corner OF)

Blue Jays (they did just acquire both Granderson and Grichuk however)

Red Sox (Need a DH)

Astros

[LouisEly]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/rosenthals-latest-mets-domingo-nationals-kipnis.html

 

Rosenthal quotes rival executives saying that Santana is “a bad defender” and “not a winning player.”

 

Not a winning player? What a completely douchey thing to say behind the wall of anonymity. Seemed like he was a pretty big part of us winning 86 games last year. Seemed like a pretty winning player when he broke a scoreless tie in a pitcher's duel by homering off Clayton Kershaw.

 

I understand it's all posturing, but knowing something like that will be public, seems like a cowardly thing to say knowing you'll never have to answer for it and it's a completely impossible to define thing that you could literally say about anyone in an effort to downplay their value.

 

Bad defender? Sure, that's true. "Not a winning player?" Give me a break.

Yeah, that's horse manure. Here are the "DHs" (according to B-R) for each AL team:

 

BOS: Hanley Ramirez - .750 (no starter w/an OPS anywhere near Santana's .875)

NYY: Matt Holiday - .748 (Judge only one significantly greater than Santana, Sanchez was .876)

TBR: Lucas Duda - .729 (no starter > Santana)

TOR: Kendrys Morales - .753 (Donaldson - .908 - and Smoak - .883, if you believe that will be normal for Smoak)

BAL: Mark Trumbo - .686 (no one > Santana)

 

CLE: Edwin Encarnacion - .881

MIN: Robbie Grossman (who?) - .741 (both Dozier and Sano slightly lower than Santana)

KCR: Brandon Moss - .707 (Hosmer .882)

CHW: Matt Davidson - .711 (Abreu - .906, Avasail Garcia - .885)

DET: Victor Martinez - .697 (Justin Upton, but now on LAA)

 

HOU: Beltran (.666)/Gattis (.767) - (Altuve, Correa, Gonzalez, Springer... )

LAA: Albert Pujols - LOL (Trout, Justin Upton)

SEA: Nelson Cruz - .924 (no one else > Santana)

TEX: Shin-Soo Choo - .780 (Beltre - .919)

OAK: Ryon Healy - .754

 

If Santana were a DH in the AL, he'd be the third best DH in terms of OPS and no one else is even close. Other than Cruz and Encarnacion, who are "winning players" on that list?

 

This brings me to my surprise suitor - the Boston Red Sox. The Red Sox could easily cut bait with Hanley Ramirez, and they don't want to start him in 2018 anyway because of his vesting option (1050 plate appearances between 2017 and 2018). If he gets that (497 PAs in 2018), the Red Sox are on the hook for $22M in 2019. Even if Santana gets ~$8M in Arby-1 in 2019, trading for Santana and benching/cutting Ramirez will save the Red Sox $14M in 2019. And they have to keep up with the Yankees.

 

I would have to think the Red Sox would be very motivated to bring someone in and bench or cut Ramirez. Saving $14M in 2019 plus the upgrade in production could entice them to give up Groome + another piece (Darwinzon Hernandez), or a three player deal (Houck, Scherff, Hernandez).

[coolhandluke121]

Would anyone trade Santana and Shaw for Mejia + Salazar? I would be a wreck if I had to make that decision. I think I'd probably close my eyes, take a deep breath, and pull the trigger.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Would anyone trade Santana and Shaw for Mejia + Salazar? I would be a wreck if I had to make that decision. I think I'd probably close my eyes, take a deep breath, and pull the trigger.

 

Then what, sign Moustakas?

[Madhawk23]

Absolutely no way I'd trade Domingo and Shaw for Salazar and Mejia. It's bad enough that we are considering trading away one of our most consistent hitters, but no way I'm interested in trading away our two most consistent bats from 2017. I realize there's a risk that one or both drop off considerably next year, but it would take a much larger package than Mejia and Salazar for me to do that deal.

 

Now, if they were to throw in McKenzie into the deal, then I'd at least give it some thought. McKenzie, Mejia and Salazar. We'd immediately replenish our farm system with that move, and then you could turn around and sign Moustakas to man 3B.

 

But, if we are trading away two guys who hit 30+ bombs and .860 OPS, you better be giving us a major, major haul back in return.

[KCBrewerfan34]

NO way on Shaw.

[Madhawk23]

Not that I'm advocating for this trade, but I'm curious as to what other's think about this trade idea - and which team would say "no" to it:

 

Indians get:

Travis Shaw

Domingo Santana

 

Brewers get:

Francisco Mejia

Tristan McKenzie

Danny Salazar or Mike Clevinger

 

 

Why I think this could work for the Indians: They have SP depth right now, and the addition of Shaw/Santana would instantly give them the most potent offense in the AL (in my opinion). They could move Ramirez to 2B to take over for Kipnis, Shaw slots into 3B and Santana slots into RF and gives them a big RH bat. Both Santana and Shaw are controllable for many years at a cheap price.

 

Why I think this could work for the Brewers: We replenish our farm system at two positions of need for the organization with the additions of Mejia and McKenzie. Salazar or Clevinger (whichever the Indians are more apt to trade at this point) immediately steps into our rotation and probably slots somewhere in one of our top 3 spots. We could then turn around and sign Moustakas to a deal (since we were linked to him weeks ago - just like Cain) to fill the 3B spot.

 

I know this deal will never happen, but it's at least interesting to think about. Would the Brewers have to take on the Kipnis contract for the Indians to even consider this? Or, is this just a trade that neither side would be interested in doing. I could see where this could become a PR nightmare for the Brewers, as some fans would simply look at the fact that we'd be trading away our two best hitters from last year, which would be puzzling to many after we just went "all in" with the Cain/Yelich additions. Again - I know this has 0% chance of happening, but curious to get thoughts on the idea at least.

[BigDaddy1974]

I was watching High Heat on MLB Network and Russo was interviewing Stearns. They discussed the recent moves. Braun to first was discussed among others. Paraphrasing here but it sounded as though Domingo will be playing in Milwaukee unless Stearns is blown away with an offer. He mentioned that some of the OF depth has minor league options available and that could help with the OF overcrowding. Russo asked about the rotation, Stearns replied that he was comfortable with the rotation and mentioned Chacin and Gallardo by name, which surprised me, Gallardo in the rotation is not very attractive to me. DS did mention that they are always on the lookout to improve the team and that ownership is supportive of adding to the roster. I know he isn't going to come out and say he's trading certain players but the more time that passes the more I wonder if Santana is staying put and the rotation is going to be what it is. Seems odd to add the pieces they did and let the rotation be what it is. Was Stearns just giving a smokescreen, trying to drive up Santana's price? I guess time will tell.

[rht]

At OnDeck yesterday, it just seemed that both Stearns and Attanasio were holding back on something. Its like they wanted to announce something, but they couldn't. As others have mentioned, I wouldn't be surprised if something happened on the pitching side for us once Darvish signs, whether its with Milwaukee or some other team, it will allow us to trade someone or sign someone. As for Braun to 1st, I think its a smokescreen.

[coolhandluke121]

Would anyone trade Santana and Shaw for Mejia + Salazar? I would be a wreck if I had to make that decision. I think I'd probably close my eyes, take a deep breath, and pull the trigger.

 

Then what, sign Moustakas?

 

I don't like him much but maybe. I'd probably give Perez a shot. I think the long-term boost at catcher and getting a solid starter would be worth the price. I don't expect Pina and Vogt to be productive again this year. I think Shaw is a major regression candidate. When you're getting an elite prospect at the position of greatest need by far in the entire organization, it could very well be a matter of giving up two $5's for a $10 and a couple $1's.

 

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

[82brewcrew82]

I know he isn't going to come out and say he's trading certain players but the more time that passes the more I wonder if Santana is staying put and the rotation is going to be what it is. Seems odd to add the pieces they did and let the rotation be what it is. Was Stearns just giving a smokescreen, trying to drive up Santana's price? I guess time will tell.

LOL, that would be so Brewers.

[Boomer5]

I am starting to do a 180 degree turn on the idea of trading Santana. This isn’t anything earth breaking, but are we crazy to be so willing to trade a player who just put up a 3.3 fWAR in his age 24 season for oft-injured Danny Salazar? I think at the very least it is a significant gamble.

 

At this point if trading Santana is a given, I would much prefer trying to wrangle ONE of Francisco Mejia or Triston McKenzie from the Indians for Santana (and include a second piece if necessary). Both are impact talents that could become difference makers over the long haul.

Do you think this team currently has enough starting pitching even if they sign a FA pitcher?

 

No they definitely do not. Especially at the higher end.

 

The problem is Santana by himself won't net us such a player and while we all like him, we have a Braun problem because he is untradeable and were then do you play Santana?

 

I think at this point, we go for it and add two of our top 100 to Santana and trade for Archer.

 

I'd stay away from Salazar due to lack of durability.

[NievesNoNO]

As for Braun to 1st, I think its a smokescreen.

 

I'd agree; at most it's a last resort. If they are really looking to compete then moving a guy who has proven he's an inadequate defender on the left side of the infield to the opposite side where he's never played and expect positive results seems crazy to me. Maaayyyybee if they didn't already have any 1B option but the Thames/Aguilar platoon is pretty solid.

[Madhawk23]

I agree that this all feels like posturing on DS's part, and I'm completely fine with that. The last thing we need is for teams to think that we HAVE to trade Domingo right now. Make them think that we have options to get him plenty of PT, and hopefully that will drive up the trade value. The last thing I want to see is us settling on a trade package that doesn't equal his value.

[KeithStone53151]

I agree that this all feels like posturing on DS's part, and I'm completely fine with that. The last thing we need is for teams to think that we HAVE to trade Domingo right now. Make them think that we have options to get him plenty of PT, and hopefully that will drive up the trade value. The last thing I want to see is us settling on a trade package that doesn't equal his value.

 

I'm kinda wondering if we had a deal lined up for Santana as HH19 had noted, but the other team tried reducing their offer after our 2 moves on Friday. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what's going on with him, I doubt anything is announced today.

[MadThinker88]

Not that I'm advocating for this trade, but I'm curious as to what other's think about this trade idea - and which team would say "no" to it:

 

Indians get:

Travis Shaw

Domingo Santana

 

Brewers get:

Francisco Mejia

Tristan McKenzie

Danny Salazar or Mike Clevinger

 

 

Why I think this could work for the Indians: They have SP depth right now, and the addition of Shaw/Santana would instantly give them the most potent offense in the AL (in my opinion). They could move Ramirez to 2B to take over for Kipnis, Shaw slots into 3B and Santana slots into RF and gives them a big RH bat. Both Santana and Shaw are controllable for many years at a cheap price.

 

Why I think this could work for the Brewers: We replenish our farm system at two positions of need for the organization with the additions of Mejia and McKenzie. Salazar or Clevinger (whichever the Indians are more apt to trade at this point) immediately steps into our rotation and probably slots somewhere in one of our top 3 spots. We could then turn around and sign Moustakas to a deal (since we were linked to him weeks ago - just like Cain) to fill the 3B spot.

 

I know this deal will never happen, but it's at least interesting to think about. Would the Brewers have to take on the Kipnis contract for the Indians to even consider this? Or, is this just a trade that neither side would be interested in doing. I could see where this could become a PR nightmare for the Brewers, as some fans would simply look at the fact that we'd be trading away our two best hitters from last year, which would be puzzling to many after we just went "all in" with the Cain/Yelich additions. Again - I know this has 0% chance of happening, but curious to get thoughts on the idea at least.

 

Cleveland says No.

 

Adding McKenzie was doom. He is the 1 untouchable.

On top of that the impact of adding Shaw/ Santana without the departure of Kipnis/ Chisenhall/ other position pieces causes a larger player jam than the Brewers have with its OF currently.

[jmeks23]

I was watching High Heat on MLB Network and Russo was interviewing Stearns. They discussed the recent moves. Braun to first was discussed among others. Paraphrasing here but it sounded as though Domingo will be playing in Milwaukee unless Stearns is blown away with an offer. He mentioned that some of the OF depth has minor league options available and that could help with the OF overcrowding. Russo asked about the rotation, Stearns replied that he was comfortable with the rotation and mentioned Chacin and Gallardo by name, which surprised me, Gallardo in the rotation is not very attractive to me. DS did mention that they are always on the lookout to improve the team and that ownership is supportive of adding to the roster. I know he isn't going to come out and say he's trading certain players but the more time that passes the more I wonder if Santana is staying put and the rotation is going to be what it is. Seems odd to add the pieces they did and let the rotation be what it is. Was Stearns just giving a smokescreen, trying to drive up Santana's price? I guess time will tell.

 

 

Anything said by DS in the public is to be taken with a very large grain of salt. Think Ryan Braun interview style. Vanilla, cliche, etc. You won't get him saying "we want one of the top FA pitchers out there" or "Domingo will be fetching us a lot of offers"

 

He especially won't be giving anything juicy to Chris Russo

[wallus]

 

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

 

You are free to leave, no one is keeping you here. Bye.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I'm kinda wondering if we had a deal lined up for Santana as HH19 had noted, but the other team tried reducing their offer after our 2 moves on Friday. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what's going on with him, I doubt anything is announced today.

 

Or other teams have shown interest since the moves last week, causing Stearns to reconsider. Cheap, young power-hitting corner outfielders don't come up on the market very often. Having guys like J.D. Martinez and Carlos Gonzales still out there probably doesn't help. Santana is kind of a "poor man's version" of them.

[wildcat2237]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/01/rosenthals-latest-mets-domingo-nationals-kipnis.html

 

Rosenthal quotes rival executives saying that Santana is “a bad defender” and “not a winning player.”

 

Not a winning player? What a completely douchey thing to say behind the wall of anonymity. Seemed like he was a pretty big part of us winning 86 games last year. Seemed like a pretty winning player when he broke a scoreless tie in a pitcher's duel by homering off Clayton Kershaw.

 

I understand it's all posturing, but knowing something like that will be public, seems like a cowardly thing to say knowing you'll never have to answer for it and it's a completely impossible to define thing that you could literally say about anyone in an effort to downplay their value.

 

Bad defender? Sure, that's true. "Not a winning player?" Give me a break.

 

Come on folks. Santana is on the trade block.

 

Rival GM's are not going to tell Rosenthal, "Santana is a stud who hit 30 bombs last year. He can play OF and would make an excellent DH. We plan to pay through the nose for him."

 

Of course they are going to tell Rosenthal he is a bum. The Brewers need to unload an outfielder and rival GM's know it. They are going to play their hand close.

[wildcat2237]

I'm kinda wondering if we had a deal lined up for Santana as HH19 had noted, but the other team tried reducing their offer after our 2 moves on Friday. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what's going on with him, I doubt anything is announced today.

 

Or other teams have shown interest since the moves last week, causing Stearns to reconsider. Cheap, young power-hitting corner outfielders don't come up on the market very often. Having guys like J.D. Martinez and Carlos Gonzales still out there probably doesn't help. Santana is kind of a "poor man's version" of them.

 

Excellent post and right on. Stearns is going to get the best deal for Santana.

 

Maybe that deal goes down tomorrow, maybe it goes down March 23rd after some spring injuries for other teams. Who knows.

[bill hAll Star]

I'm kinda wondering if we had a deal lined up for Santana as HH19 had noted, but the other team tried reducing their offer after our 2 moves on Friday. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what's going on with him, I doubt anything is announced today.

 

Or other teams have shown interest since the moves last week, causing Stearns to reconsider. Cheap, young power-hitting corner outfielders don't come up on the market very often. Having guys like J.D. Martinez and Carlos Gonzales still out there probably doesn't help. Santana is kind of a "poor man's version" of them.

 

Small quibble, but I don't think Gonzalez holds any value. Someone will sign him, but he's probably a one year risk type of guy. I can't imagine anyone thinks he's much more than a .750 OPS guy away from Coors and can only face right handed pitching to accomplish that.

[Madhawk23]

I'm kinda wondering if we had a deal lined up for Santana as HH19 had noted, but the other team tried reducing their offer after our 2 moves on Friday. Will probably have to wait until tomorrow to figure out what's going on with him, I doubt anything is announced today.

 

Or other teams have shown interest since the moves last week, causing Stearns to reconsider. Cheap, young power-hitting corner outfielders don't come up on the market very often. Having guys like J.D. Martinez and Carlos Gonzales still out there probably doesn't help. Santana is kind of a "poor man's version" of them.

 

Small quibble, but I don't think Gonzalez holds any value. Someone will sign him, but he's probably a one year risk type of guy. I can't imagine anyone thinks he's much more than a .750 OPS guy away from Coors and can only face right handed pitching to accomplish that.

 

Agreed. Once Martinez goes off the board, Domingo should instantly become the most attractive OF/DH prospect out there - either in F/A or a trade. And he should be the most attractive guy out there now for teams (like Cleveland) that don't have the room in their budget to give Martinez the crazy $$ that he is going to want in a F/A deal.

[Madhawk23]

Not that I'm advocating for this trade, but I'm curious as to what other's think about this trade idea - and which team would say "no" to it:

 

Indians get:

Travis Shaw

Domingo Santana

 

Brewers get:

Francisco Mejia

Tristan McKenzie

Danny Salazar or Mike Clevinger

 

 

Why I think this could work for the Indians: They have SP depth right now, and the addition of Shaw/Santana would instantly give them the most potent offense in the AL (in my opinion). They could move Ramirez to 2B to take over for Kipnis, Shaw slots into 3B and Santana slots into RF and gives them a big RH bat. Both Santana and Shaw are controllable for many years at a cheap price.

 

Why I think this could work for the Brewers: We replenish our farm system at two positions of need for the organization with the additions of Mejia and McKenzie. Salazar or Clevinger (whichever the Indians are more apt to trade at this point) immediately steps into our rotation and probably slots somewhere in one of our top 3 spots. We could then turn around and sign Moustakas to a deal (since we were linked to him weeks ago - just like Cain) to fill the 3B spot.

 

I know this deal will never happen, but it's at least interesting to think about. Would the Brewers have to take on the Kipnis contract for the Indians to even consider this? Or, is this just a trade that neither side would be interested in doing. I could see where this could become a PR nightmare for the Brewers, as some fans would simply look at the fact that we'd be trading away our two best hitters from last year, which would be puzzling to many after we just went "all in" with the Cain/Yelich additions. Again - I know this has 0% chance of happening, but curious to get thoughts on the idea at least.

 

Cleveland says No.

 

Adding McKenzie was doom. He is the 1 untouchable.

On top of that the impact of adding Shaw/ Santana without the departure of Kipnis/ Chisenhall/ other position pieces causes a larger player jam than the Brewers have with its OF currently.

 

I agree with you that McKenzie is probably the deal breaker in this deal. However, this is also the Indians window here to finally bring a WS title back to Cleveland, so I wonder if the idea of adding two controllable, impact bats like Shaw/Santana would be too hard for them to pass up? Also, I had initially included us taking Kipnis back in the deal as well, but I pulled him out as I didn't think we'd be able to take on his salary AND go out and add a Moustakas. But, I wonder if us agreeing to take on Kipnis would help get a deal like this done.

 

Again - I know this trade will never happen, but I just threw it out there for discussion purposes. Could be an opportunity for us to sell really high on Shaw and Santana, but I also don't think that the Brewers would want to pull the trigger on this deal either as I thikn it would be a big PR nightmare after all of the "buzz" around this team since the deals late last week.

[82brewcrew82]

 

I guess I should have expected a lot of resistance here though. I've been spoiled by the realgm Brewers board, where they rarely overrate their own players. I'm sure front office professionals around the league would tell you it's a pretty fair trade, if not slightly in favor of the Brewers.

 

You are free to leave, no one is keeping you here. Bye.

Bye Felicia....