Cain to Brewers - 5 years/$80M

[Brewer Fever]

 

Agreed. trwi7 isn’t a troll.

 

Thirded. He just needed to get it out of his system I guess.

[superfly]

I have yet to see anybody tell me why a team with a known glut of outfielders is signing MORE OUTFIELDERS who are OLD and COST LOTS.

 

Whatever Phillips/Santana deal that Sterns has in the works better be legit.

 

Stearns is taking advantage of the inefficiency in the market (less players in FA due to them saving for next year) and selling high on prospects (highly sought after commodities). In a couple three years we'll have a new crop of hopefully good prospects ready to go. In my opinion anyway.

[jerichoholicninja]

Ugh. Hate that it's five years. I guess in 3 years when Braun's deal is up Cain just goes to RF and they find someone else for CF.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the take away here is that the Brewers added ~8-10 WAR to the line up today, at the expense of ~3-4 (Santana/Broxton). Even if you think they outperformed a bit last year and are a 83ish win team before the moves, this puts them solidly into contention, prior to whatever comes from dealing Santana.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I think this is a fair deal. Braun's deal expires in 2020, which means you're not going to have two big numbers on the books in '21 and '22 should Cain decline in performance. I don't think this is going to hamper our flexibility beyond the next few seasons, and I think Mark A. is going to throw in money and can afford to. It just seems like he doesn't mind paying when the results are there.

 

I'm am getting pumped to watch this outfield run around next year. And there still may be more to come. One starter away (or maybe the FO is just really high on Woodruff and the young guys and is going to flip Domingo for prospects to replenish the system).

 

I love the boldness of all of this. Let's do it.

[TURBO]

trwi7 has been posting on here for over a decade since Prince and others were still coming up. Back to the days when I rolled with the BrewCrewWS2008 name (that prediction fell flat sadly). He is not a troll and I respect him as a poster. Def not someone who deserves ban because of a day or two of troll like messages. Not everyone is going to be happy with moves. Plus moves away from rebuild model and gives up ton of favorites in our system. Hardly the first time someone has made a comment about Braun to 3B or me saying I hope Suter is traded so I never have to hear clancy mention him ever again....happens.

 

Agreed. trwi7 isn’t a troll.

 

I 3rd that...

[danzig6767]

I think the take away here is that the Brewers added ~8-10 WAR to the line up today, at the expense of ~3-4 (Santana/Broxton). Even if you think they outperformed a bit last year and are a 83ish win team before the moves, this puts them solidly into contention, prior to whatever comes from dealing Santana.

So much will depend on the whole pitching staff next year, regardless of the upgrade to position players and right now at least, the pitching staff is a large question mark.

[adambr2]

My God, you guys have no idea how much I'm rooting for a 75 win season so I can read all the "derp what happened?" on bf.net.

 

Here's the thing about that. Let's say that happens and we need to reboot again. Worst case, unless Yelich falls off a cliff at 26, which is highly unlikely, we can basically get a refund on the deal. No obviously not the same prospects, but if he produces at the rate he has been, the difference between his trade value now and his value with 3-4 years left on a cheap contract will be very negligible.

 

That's one of the great things about this deal. Yelich doesn't have trade protection. The risk is mitigated by being able to reverse course on him if things don't work out.

[reillymcshane]

 

Agreed. trwi7 isn’t a troll.

 

Thirded. He just needed to get it out of his system I guess.

I will just add that a) I totally get trwi7's joke about Braun at 3B. It wasn't being a troll. It was an old board joke. b) Sometimes, enough is enough. You don't like something, fine. Say so and move on. It's not just this thread - it happens all the time. And it ruins the experience for everyone else as two people exchange 20 posts about a subject that has nothing to do with the thread. c) Remember, you're never as funny in print as you are in your head. A joke or a sarcasm on a message board doesn't always work right. I'm not saying don't use sarcasm. I laughed at trwi7's Braun-to-3B joke. But be wary. It can just come across wrong - often times simply mean or condescending. d) be polite. It really does work.

 

Thank you.

[PeaveyFury]

I think the take away here is that the Brewers added ~8-10 WAR to the line up today, at the expense of ~3-4 (Santana/Broxton). Even if you think they outperformed a bit last year and are a 83ish win team before the moves, this puts them solidly into contention, prior to whatever comes from dealing Santana.

So much will depend on the whole pitching staff next year, regardless of the upgrade to position players and right now at least, the pitching staff is a large question mark.

 

Absolutely. If Santana brings an Archer or Salazar, things get really, really interesting.

[craigharmann]

 

Agreed. trwi7 isn’t a troll.

 

Thirded. He just needed to get it out of his system I guess.

I will just add that a) I totally get trwi7's joke about Braun at 3B. It wasn't being a troll. It was an old board joke. b) Sometimes, enough is enough. You don't like something, fine. Say so and move on. It's not just this thread - it happens all the time. And it ruins the experience for everyone else as two people exchange 20 posts about a subject that has nothing to do with the thread. c) Remember, you're never as funny in print as you are in your head. A joke or a sarcasm on a message board doesn't always work right. I'm not saying don't use sarcasm. I laughed at trwi7's Braun-to-3B joke. But be wary. It can just come across wrong - often times simply mean or condescending. d) be polite. It really does work.

 

Thank you.

 

 

Amen.

[adambr2]

 

Cy Sneed was traded for Jonathan Villar, who had a pretty awesome 2016. Despite him falling off in 2017, I'd call that a fair bit more than a hill of beans.

 

Sneed had a 6 ERA in the minors last year. He's not even among the top 30 prospects for the Astros. What does the Astros wanting to dump Villar for pennies and Sneed being those pennies have to do with Sneed's actual value now?

[LouisEly]

 

Cy Sneed was traded for Jonathan Villar, who had a pretty awesome 2016. Despite him falling off in 2017, I'd call that a fair bit more than a hill of beans.

 

Sneed had a 6 ERA in the minors last year. He's not even among the top 30 prospects for the Astros. What does the Astros wanting to dump Villar for pennies and Sneed being those pennies have to do with Sneed's actual value now?

It shows that prospects can be overrated and sometimes should be traded.

[trwi7]

Absolutely. If Santana brings an Archer or Salazar, things get really, really interesting.

 

Why is Salazar such a big thing around here? He was so bad at one point last year that he was demoted to the bullpen, rebounded a little and then quickly went back in the tank. He's started 30 games once. Has gone over 140 innings once and in his career averages less than 6 innings per start.

 

I'd want a damn good prospect coming back with Salazar if we're giving up Santana for him.

[PeaveyFury]

Absolutely. If Santana brings an Archer or Salazar, things get really, really interesting.

 

Why is Salazar such a big thing around here? .

 

FIP below 3.75 every year of his career so far, entering the prime of his career, and a 3 WAR player twice in his career so far.

 

But ideally, I'd love to get Kipnis in the same deal as well.

[Brewer Fever]

Why is Salazar such a big thing around here? He was so bad at one point last year that he was demoted to the bullpen, rebounded a little and then quickly went back in the tank. He's started 30 games once. Has gone over 140 innings once and in his career averages less than 6 innings per start.

 

I'd want a damn good prospect coming back with Salazar if we're giving up Santana for him.

 

I'm hoping for better than Salazar as well. If he is acquired I guess I'll be hoping for the moving from AL to NL effect. Even better would be Archer and the AL to NL effect.

[reillymcshane]

Absolutely. If Santana brings an Archer or Salazar, things get really, really interesting.

 

Why is Salazar such a big thing around here? He was so bad at one point last year that he was demoted to the bullpen, rebounded a little and then quickly went back in the tank. He's started 30 games once. Has gone over 140 innings once and in his career averages less than 6 innings per start.

 

I'd want a damn good prospect coming back with Salazar if we're giving up Santana for him.

I think Salazar is a tantalizing player because he looks great at times - and has had some success. 145K in 103 innings last year. 30 starts and a 3.45 ERA in 2015. All Star selection in 2016 (if you believe in that kind of stuff).

 

His FIP has never been above 3.74. At age 28, that makes him pretty interesting.

 

I don't know that much more about him, but his inconsistencies are troublesome. The ERA last year, the move to the bullpen - perhaps others have some insight.

[KeithStone53151]

Has anyone seen a salary breakdown by year on Cain?

[TJseven7]

I have yet to see anybody tell me why a team with a known glut of outfielders is signing MORE OUTFIELDERS who are OLD and COST LOTS.

 

Whatever Phillips/Santana deal that Sterns has in the works better be legit.

 

Stearns is taking advantage of the inefficiency in the market (less players in FA due to them saving for next year) and selling high on prospects (highly sought after commodities). In a couple three years we'll have a new crop of hopefully good prospects ready to go. In my opinion anyway.

 

Its also about what those OF do. Going from broxton santana to yelich cain cuts out roughly 1k per game and adds obp and defensive range. This is about team composition more than anything else. Cain at 80/5 might be seen as a fair market fa signing when typically fas are overpaid.

 

Add in, from my knowledge of talent evaluators they dont change their mind on someone simply because they had a good year. You look at what we gave up to get santana hader phillips houser and you realize that santana wasn't supposed to be a big deal. He blew up last year at the plate. Can't play 1st, isnt good in RF. Houston couldn't have valued him that high and you'd assume that didn't change. Stearns might have thought they were wrong but also might see him as sitting at the ultimate sell high point of his career.

 

His opinion has a set value and expectations. If he can get a lot more for him than that value then you move him. You dont do the yelich trade cain deal without having the next move in place. Maybe its braun to 1b. Maybe its santana out. Only dude thats blocked at this current moment is mavrick who i see as a big armed colby rasmus.

[Jenkins5]

Has anyone seen a salary breakdown by year on Cain?

 

Can't yet because deal is not final until physical. Sure little by little things will be leaked until then

[tmwiese55]

Absolutely. If Santana brings an Archer or Salazar, things get really, really interesting.

 

Why is Salazar such a big thing around here? He was so bad at one point last year that he was demoted to the bullpen, rebounded a little and then quickly went back in the tank. He's started 30 games once. Has gone over 140 innings once and in his career averages less than 6 innings per start.

 

I'd want a damn good prospect coming back with Salazar if we're giving up Santana for him.

I think Salazar is a tantalizing player because he looks great at times - and has had some success. 145K in 103 innings last year. 30 starts and a 3.45 ERA in 2015. All Star selection in 2016 (if you believe in that kind of stuff).

 

His FIP has never been above 3.74. At age 28, that makes him pretty interesting.

 

I don't know that much more about him, but his inconsistencies are troublesome. The ERA last year, the move to the bullpen - perhaps others have some insight.

 

Intriguing too what our pitching coach could do with him after everything we saw him pull off last year with guys. Big leaps by nelson/Anderson and more.

 

Yea I'm not sold on Salazar and actually have a small fear they'd actually force us to give them prospects to get him. Although I see how taking Kipnis's salary might make that up

[82brewcrew82]

Has anyone seen a salary breakdown by year on Cain?

 

Can't yet because deal is not final until physical. Sure little by little things will be leaked until then

I thought it was reported the physical was cleared and the deal is official. This thing was lined up for a while.

[clancyphile]

Why is Salazar such a big thing around here? He was so bad at one point last year that he was demoted to the bullpen, rebounded a little and then quickly went back in the tank. He's started 30 games once. Has gone over 140 innings once and in his career averages less than 6 innings per start.

 

I'd want a damn good prospect coming back with Salazar if we're giving up Santana for him.

 

I'm hoping for better than Salazar as well. If he is acquired I guess I'll be hoping for the moving from AL to NL effect. Even better would be Archer and the AL to NL effect.

 

No interest in Salazar on my end. None.

[reillymcshane]

Has anyone seen a salary breakdown by year on Cain?

 

Can't yet because deal is not final until physical. Sure little by little things will be leaked until then

I thought it was reported the physical was cleared and the deal is official. This thing was lined up for a while.

Yes, he passed his physical. Just no numbers are out yet.

[KeithStone53151]

Yes, he passed his physical. Just no numbers are out yet.

 

I'm trying to get a feel for how much payroll space we have left to work with to make moves. It's hard to say for sure without knowing the limit, but I don't think we have much left. Trading for Kipnis seems unlikely at this point.