Cain to Brewers - 5 years/$80M

[TJseven7]

Ryan Braun in RF is an absolute tragedy. Ryan Braun, for whatever reason, is exponentially worse in RF vs. LF. In my opinion the worst I have ever seen man RF on a daily basis. Would never happen, but I’d rather see Yelich in CF and Cain in RF if that meant keeping Braun out of RF.

 

Another solid example of how terrible the botched opportunity to trade Braun has been working out for us.

 

Yeah don't even care what the dodgers were offering. I'm sure we were offered too much and we missed a chance.

 

Every time I think through the roster for logical moves I always end up saying... damn braun.

[tmwiese55]

The killer on that LAD deal is that at the time Puig was complete trash and also had massive headcase issues going on. Yea in hindsight after Braun's year last year it looks like they blew it. But at the time Puig was garbage and likely wouldn't have wanted to be in MKE. At the time of decision it wasn't terrible and I see both sides, was probably a very close call for them that could have went either way. Let's just hope Braun plays 130 games this year with over 280 and over 20 HRs, that's not too much to ask.

[adambr2]

Ryan Braun in RF is an absolute tragedy. Ryan Braun, for whatever reason, is exponentially worse in RF vs. LF. In my opinion the worst I have ever seen man RF on a daily basis. Would never happen, but I’d rather see Yelich in CF and Cain in RF if that meant keeping Braun out of RF.

 

Another solid example of how terrible the botched opportunity to trade Braun has been working out for us.

 

Yeah don't even care what the dodgers were offering. I'm sure we were offered too much and we missed a chance.

 

Yeah, that was a classic case of know when to hold em, know when to fold em, and Stearns definitely should have folded Braun when he had the chance.

 

Forget about whoever the two prospects were, having McCarthy available as another option, and having Puig would be worth far more than what we have with Braun. At least Puig would have some surplus trade value if we wanted to go that route and not just be a difficult to move salary dump only option.

 

I'm coming across as more critical of Stearns than I would like to. He's an excellent GM and hits far more than he misses. But this was probably his biggest miss.

[pacopete4]

Again to each their own but we want professional hitters in our lineup and Braun is one of the best. We are moving to a new wave of hitters in Milwaukee and Braun has and will continue to be one of our better ones. While we all get giddy about a guy like Yelich and Cain (and rightfully so), Braun still trumps them offensively when he's healthy. That can be a major weapon for the Brewers to have, especially in a postseason.

[SRB]

Braun is projected to outhit Santana, FWIW. Even factoring in that the projection systems severely penalize players for getting old.

 

I really think Braun deserves credit for not being an albatross contract (at least not yet) like so many others. He's still a solid major league OF, with considerable upside.

[djd1228]

Im in an extreme minority here, but im glad Ryan Braun is sticking around. He's a part of my fondest baseball memories (started following in 2005) and really hope we can get him a ring. (Im fully aware he threw that guy under the bus but ive forgiven him for that and the HGH he was using to nurse injuries)

[dacbrewers]

Unfortunately now we don't get to see Brett Phillips in the OF. Back to AAA or another team. The guy has an incredible arm.

[dacbrewers]

Im in an extreme minority here, but im glad Ryan Braun is sticking around. He's a part of my fondest baseball memories (started following in 2005) and really hope we can get him a ring. (Im fully aware he threw that guy under the bus but ive forgiven him for that and the HGH he was using to nurse injuries)

Braun continues to have nagging injuries and not being able to use HGH hurts his recovery time. I think we will start to see a decline in both playing time and offensive numbers.

[wallus]

Unfortunately now we don't get to see Brett Phillips in the OF. Back to AAA or another team. The guy has an incredible arm.

 

I think it is likely he is the 4th outfielder or traded.

[adambr2]

Im in an extreme minority here, but im glad Ryan Braun is sticking around. He's a part of my fondest baseball memories (started following in 2005) and really hope we can get him a ring. (Im fully aware he threw that guy under the bus but ive forgiven him for that and the HGH he was using to nurse injuries)

Braun continues to have nagging injuries and not being able to use HGH hurts his recovery time. I think we will start to see a decline in both playing time and offensive numbers.

 

Will start to? We've already started to. I won't open up the can of worms that is the discussion about why/how long Braun was using, but I couldn't care less if he personally gets a ring further than the extent of if he's here, I hope he is productive and helping the team win one.

[markedman5]

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@Haudricourt

3h3 hours ago

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There's already rumblings and speculation out there about the #Brewers OF logjam prompting some playing time at 1B for Ryan Braun. We will see what David Stearns says about that when the Lorenzo Cain deal is official.

[brewcrew42]

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@Haudricourt

3h3 hours ago

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There's already rumblings and speculation out there about the #Brewers OF logjam prompting some playing time at 1B for Ryan Braun. We will see what David Stearns says about that when the Lorenzo Cain deal is official.

 

I just don't see it. Been rumblings about this for years. Defense is obviously part of the moves we've made. Keeping Santana doesn't align with what appears to be the team's vision. I'm still confident Santana gets traded, and Braun stays in the outfield. But who knows at this point.

[torts]

#Brewers OF Logjam meets #Brewers 1B Logjam is the clash of the winter

[stoutdude04]

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@Haudricourt

3h3 hours ago

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There's already rumblings and speculation out there about the #Brewers OF logjam prompting some playing time at 1B for Ryan Braun. We will see what David Stearns says about that when the Lorenzo Cain deal is official.

 

I just don't see it. Been rumblings about this for years. Defense is obviously part of the moves we've made. Keeping Santana doesn't align with what appears to be the team's vision. I'm still confident Santana gets traded, and Braun stays in the outfield. But who knows at this point.

 

I am not saying it's a good idea or a poor one, but I feel like I remember Braun saying something about moving wherever the team needed him to play.

[dacbrewers]

I see no reason in putting Braun at 1B when you have Aguilar and Thames. It's not a smart move defensively. Braun has a hard enough time in the OF, let alone throwing him in the infield.

[pacopete4]

I see no reason in putting Braun at 1B when you have Aguilar and Thames. It's not a smart move defensively. Braun has a hard enough time in the OF, let alone throwing him in the infield.

 

I think that is selling the athletic ability of Braun a bit short. It's not as if Thames or Aguilar is more agile than he is. I have a feeling that he could do it. He's smart, fielded pretty well coming through and for the most part, wouldn't have to toss the ball across the diamond. It makes quite a bit of sense if they do indeed plan to hang on to Santana.

[MrTPlush]

His problems in the OF are mostly instincts...so maybe he can handle grounders better etc? Who knows? Can’t get much worse than sticking him in RF again. Even a below average 1B Braun is the same as him in RF

[pacopete4]

His problems in the OF are mostly instincts...so maybe he can handle grounders better etc? Who knows? Can’t get much worse than sticking him in RF again. Even a below average 1B Braun is the same as him in RF

 

Sometimes I wonder if he's paying attention all that much. If you are ever at the games and watching him, he does a lot of pre-pitch gazing around the stadium. Makes ya think if it is a lack of focus at times the way he gets jumps on balls.

[tmwiese55]

Thames and Aguilar aren't good on D either. To my eye I thought Aguilar was really bad.

[adambr2]

I'm really not nuts about keeping all of Braun, Santana and Thames but I guess you could pull it off.

 

Thames starts 122 games at 1B, Braun 40 (platoon).

 

Braun starts 12 games in place of Yelich who starts 150, 22 for Cain, 22 for Santana, and 10 at DH.

 

That would be 106 starts for Braun and he'd obviously pinch hit on a regular basis late. It's kind of feasible but doesn't really leave room for a 5th OFer at all and it would probably just be better to trade Santana now.

 

Aguilar and Phillips would have absolutely no role and would need to be traded.

[wallus]

Putting Braun at first is poor asset management. Santana is going to be traded.

[Crash2303]

santana def going to be traded- and i hope part of a package that brings back a TOR or reset the system with a similar package of prospects that we gave up for yelich. i would love to see Thames traded soon. And would also like to see Braun move to 1B eventually as long been suggested, but am a believer in Aguilar's hitting and think he could put up some even bigger numbers this year. so would like to see him have the chance to increase his trade value to be unloaded next offseason and braun (if still on the team) could be moved then.

[KeithStone53151]

Stearns just said in his press conference that Cain will be the primary CF with Yelich covering CF sometimes. He also said they will explore the idea of Braun at 1b, both sides are open to it. That throws a bit of a wrench in things...

[KeithStone53151]

Putting Braun at first is poor asset management. Santana is going to be traded.

 

Why is it poor asset management?

[Crash2303]

I dont think anyone worries about his past, fit, or if he earned this contract. 32 33 34 35 rumored buyout 36. Plus talk of his defense already starting to decline. I love Cain but even I'm worried about that age range.

 

To add some merit to this concern, I did a quick search for players ages 32-37 in the last eight years who reasonably fit Cain's profile. who knows how Cain will actually be, but here are some trends i observed from others:

 

defense seems to take a significant dip around 32 years, especially range factor and even moreso for centerfielders. Offense tends to see a similar significant dip around age 34.

 

so it maybe more likely than not that Cain's defense will decrease considerably and steadily after this season, he already regressed a bit last year. however, in his last two years of the contract, he could be free to move to LF to help mitigate his defense, or earlier if Braun is moved before his contract ends in 2020.

 

outside of 2015 in his prime hitting year, Cain has never been an elite hitter. it seems likely that he’s got 1-2 more years of hitting around .800 OPS and then offense will steadily decline from there.

 

the money seems fine to me, and Cain, as many have noted has been one of the best players in baseball the last 3-4 years. However, with his age, so much about how I feel about this signing comes down to the extent of the no trade clause and what the buyout is for the fifth year. I think Cain will be an awesome addition in 2018 & 2019 and then begin to see some grumblings on brewerfan about him in CF the next year, particularly if he’s putting up a sub .750 OPS, with below average defense- but, even then, may still be a net positive. However, it is that age 35 & 36 seasons in ’21 & ’22 that concern me. even with a move to LF, if he is still on our roster it may be hampering to Harrison who should just be coming up…sorry. Basically, if we have trade flexibility after the 3rd year, I like the deal a lot, if we don’t- this should give us some pause, especially if its back loaded. Either way, hopefully at least one of Grisham & Ray blossom and fulfill their potential to take over in CF with Lutz not far behind. a lot of course can happen in three years.