What's Next

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I can't see the team trading for a high-end starter without giving up Burnes. Especially if other teams now view him as the team's #1 prospect. It will probably cost multiple arms, and I imagine Peralta is probably 2nd. Ortiz is a nice piece, but this is a "What have you done for me lately?" league, and his down year and injury troubles hurt his value. Hopefully he rebounds this year.

 

But yeah, if a trade happens, multiple top arms are going. If it doesn't happen, I'll be shocked.

[Swizzul]

HighHeat, my apologies. I just have a hard time personally believing a lot of the stuff that gets passed around. I was rude and I apologize for that.

 

I think all of this waiting has just tested my patience and got me feisty.

[JoeCoolMan24]

How do the Brewers get a Archer trade done? Honestly, an Archer trade *should* compare very closely to the Jose Quintana deal. Quintana had a tick better of a track record than Archer, but Q had 3 1/3 years left and Archer has 4, and both at very low contracts. That's going to be remarkably similar value.

 

The Quintana deal netted the Sox Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, and 2 low-tier guys. At the time, I believe Eloy was ranked somewhere around #14 and Cease was around #68 I think. Obviously Brinson would have been a pretty similar headliner, but a step below Eloy still.

 

Using that trade as a basis, what does Milwaukee have to offer, post-Yelich trade?

 

Something like Luis Ortiz (#70), Brandon Woodruff (#81), Keston Huira (#82), and a flier like Jean Carmona (#13 org rank)?? This is assuming Hader is untouchable (although so was Eloy), and they wouldn't want to lose ANOTHER top OF prospect in Corey Ray.

 

Or maybe Josh Hader WOULD have to be included, in order to lower the damage on the backend of the trade for MIL, but also give the Rays ONE slam dunk prospect back (like Eloy did, which limited the backend of the deal for the Sox). Maybe Hader, Huira, and 2 fliers might be similar to the Quintana return?

[HighHeat19]

HighHeat, my apologies. I just have a hard time personally believing a lot of the stuff that gets passed around. I was rude and I apologize for that.

 

I think all of this waiting has just tested my patience and got me feisty.

 

No problem buddy.

[MKEguy]

I can't see the team trading for a high-end starter without giving up Burnes. Especially if other teams now view him as the team's #1 prospect. It will probably cost multiple arms, and I imagine Peralta is probably 2nd. Ortiz is a nice piece, but this is a "What have you done for me lately?" league, and his down year and injury troubles hurt his value. Hopefully he rebounds this year.

 

But yeah, if a trade happens, multiple top arms are going. If it doesn't happen, I'll be shocked.

 

This is sort of what I was thinking as well. Like HH eluded to and we are all thinking...

 

Adios Burnes.

[3and2Fastball]

My personal guess is that Archer will be a Brewer and Darvish will not. It stems from what I know and what some don't know.

 

If it is Archer & Arrieta I'd be thrilled. Question: do you think Burnes will still be in the Brewers organization in March?

 

If we got Archer. No.

 

Thanks for the response, I kinda figured as such. It is a risk losing Burnes, but you have to give to get, and it is a risk worth taking.... I just hope it isn't Burnes plus Hiura. Hiura's bat is special.

[walleye]

Let's go over a few things here. First off, were not Cub fans. That means we don't treat other's like dung and rip on our own fans. We don't call out our player's or coaches when their losing but act like were the greatest fans when we are winning. That's not what Brewer fans are, that's Cubs fans. We have a player who did roids and got caught. He apologized and like civilized fans we forgive, forget and embrace him. In return, he wanted nothing else but to stay in Milwaukee, even when he knew we were in rebuild mode. Because he knew the fans here are special and don't sell out like fans from other teams. Were not dirtbags. Dirtbags are Cubs fans. Listen to 670 the score if you don't believe me. Brewer fans are some of the most respected fans in all of Baseball.

 

AND I told you:

1. Lucroy was going to Cleveland way before it broke. Done. (And that was way before self proclaimed Brewer's world reported it)

2. I reported that a Brewer's trade with an American League team was in the works, then nixed. Crasnick comes on a day later and reports the same. Done

3. I reported Yelich had 95% chance he was coming here 2 days prior to trade. Done.

4. I reported Brewer's had offer to Darvish and Cub's trumped it. 1 days later reported on MLB trade rumors. Done.

5. I reported that Darvish is sitting on his hands playing games with teams. Done

6. I reported Brewer's in active talks in getting Archer. 2 days later Rosenthal reports the same. Done.

7. I reported Brewer's looking to pick up not 1 but.......2 high end starter's a few days ago. Jon Heyman reports the same on twitter today. Done.

 

Anyone give me anymore grief, I pull the plug.

 

If this post gets deleted by moderators. Ditto.

 

Any internet message board has knuckleheads, it's easy to be one under the anonymity of the internet. Thankfully BF.net has very few...but not zero.

 

Don't listen to the naysayers, the vast majority of us are eagerly awaiting your every post as the primary flame to our hot stove. Keep it up, and don't worry about the annoying posts that have, and inevitably will continue to occasionally come.

Just want to point out a few things I have noticed. I use to be a regular poster here a few years back things changed I left the board since I have returned ( just recently) things have changed a lot and not all for the good , it seems like any time some posts something it gets picked to crap ....... why would anyone in their right mind want to post anything on here,and that’s sad that we are going to lose a good person who is trying to share what he hears or picks up which for rumors and inside information has been fairly accurate....... they are called rumors for a reason folks . Let’s get one thing straight we are all brewer fans here. And any one who passes along information in this section should be treated with respect .

[beekay414]

HighHeat, my apologies. I just have a hard time personally believing a lot of the stuff that gets passed around. I was rude and I apologize for that.

 

I think all of this waiting has just tested my patience and got me feisty.

 

No problem buddy.

 

Santana still on the outs? If so, would he be in the Archer deal or would there still be a chance to deal him for help elsewhere?

[KeithStone53151]

How do the Brewers get a Archer trade done? Honestly, an Archer trade *should* compare very closely to the Jose Quintana deal. Quintana had a tick better of a track record than Archer, but Q had 3 1/3 years left and Archer has 4, and both at very low contracts. That's going to be remarkably similar value.

 

The Quintana deal netted the Sox Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, and 2 low-tier guys. At the time, I believe Eloy was ranked somewhere around #14 and Cease was around #68 I think. Obviously Brinson would have been a pretty similar headliner, but a step below Eloy still.

 

Using that trade as a basis, what does Milwaukee have to offer, post-Yelich trade?

 

Something like Luis Ortiz (#70), Brandon Woodruff (#81), Keston Huira (#82), and a flier like Jean Carmona (#13 org rank)?? This is assuming Hader is untouchable (although so was Eloy), and they wouldn't want to lose ANOTHER top OF prospect in Corey Ray.

 

Or maybe Josh Hader WOULD have to be included, in order to lower the damage on the backend of the trade for MIL, but also give the Rays ONE slam dunk prospect back (like Eloy did, which limited the backend of the deal for the Sox). Maybe Hader, Huira, and 2 fliers might be similar to the Quintana return?

 

It honestly sounds like Santana to TB is a no go in general. Maybe they would want Phillips but I doubt that with all their LH outfielders. I can't imagine us getting Archer without giving up Burnes and Hiura then, and I'm not interested in doing that. I think we should be more focused on a team like Cleveland, where we match up better. That or work out a 3 way deal...which to do so quickly is difficult and unlikely. A decent 3 way for Archer could be Santana to the Red Sox, Groome to the Rays, Archer to the Brewers. Obviously we'd have to give up some additional prospects, Red Sox as well, to even out the value...but maybe that would be a decent 3 way trade framework. If the Red Sox are seriously in on Martinez, I don't see how they couldn't also be in on Santana as a similar option.

[old hickory]

I'd be very concerned about giving up Hiura for Archer

 

That hit tool is enticing, but is that amplified because he plays 2B?

[3and2Fastball]

My guess on the Archer deal based on what High Heat has said as well as other rumors is that it will be Santana + Burnes + either Woodruff or Ortiz

 

A tough price to pay but we'd have Archer for 4 years....getting him out of the AL East will improve his numbers

[HighHeat19]

I mentioned this earlier. Corbin Burnes is viewed by some teams as the Brewer's #1 Prospect. Even when the Brewer's had Brinson. Last year's HR spike in MLB has really upped the value of anyone who can pitch. Pitching is sought after more than ever due to the HR explosion.

 

Hader is extremely high on most teams lists. The Brewer's feel that they have an emerging All Star on their hands. They do not want to trade Hader at really any cost.

 

The Brewer's are also very high on Hieura. They feel he could be the next Wade Boggs as his hit tool is literally amazing, fits Stearns protype, and plays a position that will be vital for the Brewer's in this next run which could be as soon as 2019.

[KeithStone53151]

I mentioned this earlier. Corbin Burnes is viewed by some teams as the Brewer's #1 Prospect. Even when the Brewer's had Brinson. Last year's HR spike in MLB has really upped the value of anyone who can pitch. Pitching is sought after more than ever due to the HR explosion.

 

Hader is extremely high on most teams lists. The Brewer's feel that they have an emerging All Star on their hands. They do not want to trade Hader at really any cost.

 

The Brewer's are also very high on Hieura. They feel he could be the next Wade Boggs as his hit tool is literally amazing, fits Stearns protype, and plays a position that will be vital for the Brewer's in the next run which could be as soon as 2019.

 

Have you heard anything specifically with Cleveland? I feel like those teams match up so well it's almost a shame if we don't send Santana to them for pitching...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

My guess on the Archer deal based on what High Heat has said as well as other rumors is that it will be Santana + Burnes + either Woodruff or Ortiz

 

A tough price to pay but we'd have Archer for 4 years....getting him out of the AL East will improve his numbers

 

I'll go with Santana, Burnes and Peralta. I think they hang onto Woodruff as rotation insurance.

 

I imagine the original deal was Santana, Ortiz and Peralta, or something like that, and Tampa pulled Ortiz out and asked for Burnes, which caused Stearns to balk. I think it eventually gets done, though.

[3and2Fastball]

I'd be very concerned about giving up Hiura for Archer

 

That hit tool is enticing, but is that amplified because he plays 2B?

 

Yes/No... He could potentially be a Batting Average league leader. That has value at any position. Due to the perceived lack of power (I think he could eventually be a 20 HR guy) the fact that he can play 2B does elevate his value, yes, but if the guy can hit .340 (like I think he can) who cares what position he plays!?

 

(I'm pretty biased about Hiura, not very objective)

[old hickory]

I would rather Hader gets a shot at the rotation rather than trading for Archer IF that's the case...

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Hader is extremely high on most teams lists. The Brewer's feel that they have an emerging All Star on their hands. They do not want to trade Hader at really any cost.

 

The Brewer's are also very high on Hieura. They feel he could be the next Wade Boggs as his hit tool is literally amazing, fits Stearns protype, and plays a position that will be vital for the Brewer's in this next run which could be as soon as 2019.

 

To me, that means Hader and Hiura are off the table in a deal. I don't see how Hader could ever be on the table. If they are looking to compete, he is a KEY component. Contending teams rarely trade key ML pieces. Unless Doug Melvin is their GM.

[3and2Fastball]

Agreed, if it is me, you don't trade Hader/Hiura unless it is for 4 years of Clayton Kershaw or as part of a Mike Trout deal, or for someone like Carlos Correa or Francisco Lindor...

[JoeCoolMan24]

You guys know way more about the Brewers prospects than I do, obviously, but I would just strongly consider the Jose Quintana trade for reference of any Archer deal.

 

And in case you need a reference on that trade.... Quintana alone for

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-acquire-jose-quintana.html

 

OF Eloy Jimenez (#4 prospect)

SP Dylan Cease (#61 prospect)

3B Matt Rose (not in org top 30)

OF Bryant Flete (not in org top 30)

 

So really it was a future superstar, a possible mid-rotation arm, and 2 fillers. So

[old hickory]

I'd be very concerned about giving up Hiura for Archer

 

That hit tool is enticing, but is that amplified because he plays 2B?

 

Yes/No... He could potentially be a Batting Average league leader. That has value at any position. Due to the perceived lack of power (I think he could eventually be a 20 HR guy) the fact that he can play 2B does elevate his value, yes, but if the guy can hit .340 (like I think he can) who cares what position he plays!?

 

(I'm pretty biased about Hiura, not very objective)

 

I only ask since it seems like the Brewers are trying to get away from players that are limited to a single position, possibly making him a little more expendable in FO eyes...

[KeithStone53151]

You guys know way more about the Brewers prospects than I do, obviously, but I would just strongly consider the Jose Quintana trade for reference of any Archer deal.

 

And in case you need a reference on that trade.... Quintana alone for

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-acquire-jose-quintana.html

 

OF Eloy Jimenez (#4 prospect)

SP Dylan Cease (#61 prospect)

3B Matt Rose (not in org top 30)

OF Bryant Flete (not in org top 30)

 

So really it was a future superstar, a possible mid-rotation arm, and 2 fillers. So

 

I agree on the general value, it makes sense. The thing is GM's don't value everyone the same, and certainly not by what mlbpipeline or baseball america thinks. In general, this lines up with what oreilly mentioned...they want one potential star prospects to center the deal on. Cease is probably a high end bullpen arm...which has value...I don't see him starting. The other 2 guys are whatever, the prize was Jimenez. Burnes/Hiura/Lutz/etc...none of our guys quite measure up to what Jimenez was. It probably takes 2 top prospects to get Archer, in which case I'm walking away. I honestly would try to get the best starter I could with Santana and other prospects/spare parts guys...with maybe 7 or 8 prospects on an off limits list. I know that limits the SP in return, that's just how I'd approach it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You guys know way more about the Brewers prospects than I do, obviously, but I would just strongly consider the Jose Quintana trade for reference of any Archer deal.

 

And in case you need a reference on that trade.... Quintana alone for

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/07/cubs-acquire-jose-quintana.html

 

OF Eloy Jimenez (#4 prospect)

SP Dylan Cease (#61 prospect)

3B Matt Rose (not in org top 30)

OF Bryant Flete (not in org top 30)

 

So really it was a future superstar, a possible mid-rotation arm, and 2 fillers. So

 

Its a tough comparison, because if Santana is in the deal, it throws the valuation out of whack. Santana has a different value as an MLB player with proven success. Cease and Burnes are very comparable. Rose and Flete are two fliers. I dunno ... maybe Dallas Carrol or Chad McClanahan. Jake Gatewood also seems like a Tampa bay-type player, but his value is high than a typical flyer.

[3and2Fastball]

Quintana is younger than Archer and has put up better numbers (115 ERA+ & 3.53 ERA in his career vs Archer 108 ERA+ and 3.63 ERA)

 

From 2013 through 2017 Quintana put up a 22 WAR compared to Archer's 12

 

I don't think they are really considered at the same value

[HighHeat19]

From what I know, a trade of Santana, Phillips, Burnes and Peralta is what TB want's for Archer. Steep??? Yes. Ticked off at first??? Prolly

 

Then If Archer is an All Star mid July, then would you argue this trade? I wouldn't.

 

The question is, will Archer be an All Star mid July???

 

Remember he's leaving the American League East for the NL.

He will have a tremendous Defense behind him.

He has a pitching coach who polished some rocks last year.

 

It could be the trade that makes or breaks Stearns in the casual fan's eyes. But, I think these type of trades are the ones that put you over the top. There's enough history out there to prove that even though it looks like it would lean towards T.B........at first.

[3and2Fastball]

Yeah that's a lot to give up, but Archer has been an All-Star two of the last 3 seasons.

 

High Heat: you made a great point about the value of pitching going sky high. I'd be more concerned about giving up Burnes than Samtana/Phillips.... Phillips is scary to give up only in the sense that Braun is so fragile

 

But you have to give to get...

 

I am still hoping we sign Arrieta... Adding Archer & Arrieta would be just amazing. I'm less thrilled about Cobb... But Cobb still represents an improvement...obviously if the Brewers feel good about Cobb they've checked his medicals etc