What's Next

[paul253]

This. 100% this. I’m disappointed in how much grief the guy gets

 

For what it’s worth I don’t think anyone is attempting to give him grief. There were just quite a few posts that basically said “Highheat said it’s going to happen so it’s going to happen” and people wanted to point out that what he says isn’t always gospel. I’m sure he’s a big boy and understands that when you come on here and talk about anonymous sources there may be a few skeptics. It’s nothing against him and I have no doubt we all appreciate his input.

 

Anyway, while I’m thrilled with the addiitions of Cain and Yelich I’m concerned about the lack of moves to address both the rotation and the bullpen. I kind of feel like we’re in a weird spot where, on the one hand we are still kinda rebuilding and don’t want to just empty out the farm system but on the other hand are also good enough to compete and have pretty much stated through recent moves that that is our plan. But we still have a huge hole in the rotation and, with respect to some of the proposals here, are not going to fill it simply by trading Santana and a few second class prospects. Pitching will always be more valuable than hitting and while Santana is certainly a good young player you’re simply not going to get established pitchers, or even young ones, with one or two upside for him.

 

I honestly think our best bet would be to trade Santana for prospects, sign either Arrietta or Darvish and sign a reliever. It gives us a chance this year while also keeping the future bright by holding onto the cheap, controllable starters that we FINALLY have. While I’d love a guy like Fulmer I’m just afraid the cost would be too high. Our payroll is still low enough where we can take a chance on one of the better free agent pitchers. And if he ends up taking a nose dive we still have Woodruff, Burnes and Ortiz to fall back on at a very low cost.

[Warning Track Power]

While the focus remains on SP I wonder if they have moved on from Neil Walker now. Found it interesting that in a McCalvy article after the Yelich and Cain acquisitions that he mentioned Lucroy.

 

I too wonder if they are just going to roll with Villar/Sogard/Perez at 2B. Honestly if we keep Santana our offense is going to be pretty sweet and those three guys should be passable. It also allows you to see if Villar can bounce back. Which I think he can with the talent he has...may not do it, but certainly the type of guy to do it.

 

I just don't see Lucroy though. Pina/Vogt aren't that bad(were a decent duo last year actually) and I just cannot see Lucroy coming here to split time.

We have been talking about regression candidates all offseason and Piña has always been my biggest concern. His D will always play but his O may have peaked in 2017. If he regresses to say a .230 average, does he still warrant an everyday role? Vogt, Susac and Bandy are uninspiring. While Lucroy may have fallen off a little, I would be comfortable bringing him back on a 2 year $16 million deal and give him 100-110 games and Piña 50-60. As for 1B, at this point in his career, I would want him fresh and give him his days off.

[KCBrewerfan34]

LuCroy wont get $8 million per IMHO. Many FA’s are going to be playing on what they perceive to be below market deals.

[TJseven7]

You could see the "prove it" deal come into full force in the mlb with how tight the teams seem to be this point.

 

Don't get signing a guy who declined to worse then pina to start over pina due to fear he will decline.

 

I'm not even getting into filler adds until monday passes. We need to know the next move.

[82brewcrew82]

To get us back on track here. This is from the Tigers version of Brewcrewball.

 

[attachment=0]Screenshot_20180127-115726.png[/attachment]

 

I would absolutely do this in a heartbeat. 5 years control of Fulmer, give up Santana, Grisham, Dubon and Woodruff?

 

Plus you'd actually save money in the deal and have still plenty of money to spend on whatever else you wanted, every pitching prospect besides Woodruff still here, still got Hiura, still got Ray and Lutz, and Hader can be your pen ace.

What is the site for this board?

[rickh150]

Over 323 IP, Fulmer has a sub-7.0 K/9. He's a very good pitcher due to his ability to generate ground balls, but "ace like stuff"? I would much rather have Archer, but since Fulmer is good and young the above trade proposal doesn't seem preposterous to me. Maybe a little too much headed to Detroit.

 

What about the injury issue with Fulmer at the end of last season? I think that would further push items toward Archer (or going with a FA)..

 

He had a nerve transported to prevent irritation issues. That's not a big deal.

 

So an 8 war pitcher at 24 (2 not even full years) isnt an ace because he doesn't K enough guys? Archer in 5 years has had 1 year better than fulmers average.

 

One guy averages 6ip per start. 1 averages 6.3 at 24 years old.

 

For me, he doesn't miss enough bats to be thought of as a sure year to year thing. More than that, he hasn't been very good long enough to give up a Santana AND a Woodruff/Dubon. Throw in the negatives that he pitches in a pitcher's park and that he has had a recent minor injury. If it is Santana and another Mediocre prospect or two..... sure. Woodruff is in the rotation. Dubon could possibly be a fixture of our middle IF in a year or two. Too much for the risk involved.

[SRB]

What about Thames to Boston for Thornburg and a couple prospects? (Quality prospects, to be clear. I think Thames has a lot of value with his contract and Boston needs 1B/DH help. Not sure he could land us a quality SP though.)

 

I would love to see a Yelich-Cain-Santana outfield with Braun at 1B if he can handle it.

[KeithStone53151]

What about Thames to Boston for Thornburg and a couple prospects? (Quality prospects, to be clear. I think Thames has a lot of value with his contract and Boston needs 1B/DH help. Not sure he could land us a quality SP though.)

 

I would love to see a Yelich-Cain-Santana outfield with Braun at 1B if he can handle it.

 

Red Sox just resigned Moreland, Thames doesn't make sense as a landing spot. I could see trading Thames as it sheds some salary, or keeping him as depth. As a team clearing trying to win now, having a guy like Thames to fill in for injury and work in for maybe 80ish starts will be great value to the team. If we add a starter, I think it's likely we roll with 12 in the pen for the most part. 13 position players including Pina, Vogt, Braun, Villar, Sogard, Arcia, Shaw, Thames, Perez, Yelich, Cain, 2 of Broxton/Santana/Phillips offers a ton of quality depth, flexbility, and matchup options. Also I believe Broxton and Phillips have options left so they can be sent to AAA short term for an 8th reliever if we ever need an extra arm. Stearns doesn't have nearly as much payroll flexibility, but he still has a ton of assets to work with to improve the team. Here's hoping he can consolidate some outfielders for a quality arm.

[Devinep]

Thames makes sense as an improvement at DH over Hanley (probably platoon actually)

[anglotiger]

Thames makes sense as an improvement at DH over Hanley (probably platoon actually)

 

Ouch - if you have to platoon at the DH spot then you've got bigger problems...

[KeithStone53151]

Thames makes sense as an improvement at DH over Hanley (probably platoon actually)

 

Maybe, but there are a handful of LH power hitting 1b available in FA that could form a strict platoon if that's what you're looking for and cost just money...possibly around what Thames is owed. Adam Lind's option of $5 million was declined by the nationals coming off a pretty strong season. I'd take him over Thames ignoring money completely. If Lind had a ton of surplus value, the nationals could have picked up the option and traded him.

[reillymcshane]

Are we pretty much at the point where we don’t think Arrieta is a possibiiity any longer?

I'm going to agree with the other posters and say that Arrieta is no longer a possibility. I'm not saying impossible, but unlikely.

 

Even if you can get him for $20M/year, that's taking our payroll pretty high. And we have to aware that next off season we are going to be hit with quite a few salary increases. Villar, Shaw, Santana, Broxton, Davies, Nelson, Knebel, Perez - all of these guys are either arby eligible for the first or second time. And then there are raises for Yelich, Anderson, Thames, Cain and Jeffress. And there will be no big salaries coming off the books (only guys I currently see are Vogt, Sogard, Logan, Gallardo). Thus, I don't see the team pushing their salary ceiling this year - knowing full well we are going to have salaries go up around $25M next off season.

 

That's just a guess. I have no proof or anything -- just looking at the financial commitments for 2019 is going to make us be wary of any more big time signings.

[superfly]

I half feel like Braun might be on the chopping block. Other than his salary he seems to be the path of least resistance remaining in this OF puzzle. Get rid of him eating some salary and we have Yelich/Cain/Santana (and Phillips to defense sub for Santana) for the next 5 years without breaking up the Thames/Aguilar platoon.

 

How you get him out of here with the no trade protection? I have no idea...offer Burnes/Braun to the Dodgers for Puig+ or something? It just seems like the path of least resistance to me.

[pacopete4]

I half feel like Braun might be on the chopping block. Other than his salary he seems to be the path of least resistance remaining in this OF puzzle. Get rid of him eating some salary and we have Yelich/Cain/Santana (and Phillips to defense sub for Santana) for the next 5 years without breaking up the Thames/Aguilar platoon.

 

How you get him out of here with the no trade protection? I have no idea...offer Burnes/Braun to the Dodgers for Puig+ or something? It just seems like the path of least resistance to me.

 

What sense would it make to trade one of our best prospect pitchers to rid us of Braun to free up playing time for our outfielders but yet obtain Puig, another outfielder?

 

Just doesn’t add up. Oh and Braun isn’t going anywhere.

[KeithStone53151]

Are we pretty much at the point where we don’t think Arrieta is a possibiiity any longer?

I'm going to agree with the other posters and say that Arrieta is no longer a possibility. I'm not saying impossible, but unlikely.

 

Even if you can get him for $20M/year, that's taking our payroll pretty high. And we have to aware that next off season we are going to be hit with quite a few salary increases. Villar, Shaw, Santana, Broxton, Davies, Nelson, Knebel, Perez - all of these guys are either arby eligible for the first or second time. And then there are raises for Yelich, Anderson, Thames, Cain and Jeffress. And there will be no big salaries coming off the books (only guys I currently see are Vogt, Sogard, Logan, Gallardo). Thus, I don't see the team pushing their salary ceiling this year - knowing full well we are going to have salaries go up around $25M next off season.

 

That's just a guess. I have no proof or anything -- just looking at the financial commitments for 2019 is going to make us be wary of any more big time signings.

 

If Santana is traded, and we cut loose Aguilar/Perez after this season(or before)...that saves us a good chunk of salary. We will definitely have significant increases in 2019, but we have options to mitigate good chunks of it.

 

That said, I'll agree we probably don't target a high end starter via free agency. We could, but it simply isn't logical. Makes worlds more sense to use outfield assets to address starting pitching if we opt to go that route. And depending which specific starter we target, we may have some payroll space to add a quality 2b.

[superfly]

I half feel like Braun might be on the chopping block. Other than his salary he seems to be the path of least resistance remaining in this OF puzzle. Get rid of him eating some salary and we have Yelich/Cain/Santana (and Phillips to defense sub for Santana) for the next 5 years without breaking up the Thames/Aguilar platoon.

 

How you get him out of here with the no trade protection? I have no idea...offer Burnes/Braun to the Dodgers for Puig+ or something? It just seems like the path of least resistance to me.

 

What sense would it make to trade one of our best prospect pitchers to rid us of Braun to free up playing time for our outfielders but yet obtain Puig, another outfielder?

 

Just doesn’t add up. Oh and Braun isn’t going anywhere.

 

I don't know, there is one team he will go to and they have Joc/Taylor and an expiring Puig in the outfield. If you have a better idea please elaborate because i'm only pondering a better way to keep Santana here for 5 years other than repeat the same talking points over and over again. This Braun 1B talk is folly IMO unless I actually see him taking throws on the 1st base bag.

[pacopete4]

I half feel like Braun might be on the chopping block. Other than his salary he seems to be the path of least resistance remaining in this OF puzzle. Get rid of him eating some salary and we have Yelich/Cain/Santana (and Phillips to defense sub for Santana) for the next 5 years without breaking up the Thames/Aguilar platoon.

 

How you get him out of here with the no trade protection? I have no idea...offer Burnes/Braun to the Dodgers for Puig+ or something? It just seems like the path of least resistance to me.

 

What sense would it make to trade one of our best prospect pitchers to rid us of Braun to free up playing time for our outfielders but yet obtain Puig, another outfielder?

 

Just doesn’t add up. Oh and Braun isn’t going anywhere.

 

I don't know, there is one team he will go to and they have Joc/Taylor and an expiring Puig in the outfield. If you have a better idea please elaborate because i'm only pondering a better way to keep Santana here for 5 years other than repeat the same talking points over and over again. This Braun 1B talk is folly IMO unless I actually see him taking throws on the 1st base bag.

 

It’s January. How would you see him doing that? Lol First base really is not that hard. Especially for an ex SS/3B who is still pretty athletic. I mean my god, Thames/Aguilar are both very limited over there as it is.

 

And just keeping both is a way better idea than giving away Burnes (just stumped as how you thought this would be a way to solve things). Adding Puig just gives you the same “problem” you have right now. Where would he play?

[KeithStone53151]

I half feel like Braun might be on the chopping block. Other than his salary he seems to be the path of least resistance remaining in this OF puzzle. Get rid of him eating some salary and we have Yelich/Cain/Santana (and Phillips to defense sub for Santana) for the next 5 years without breaking up the Thames/Aguilar platoon.

 

How you get him out of here with the no trade protection? I have no idea...offer Burnes/Braun to the Dodgers for Puig+ or something? It just seems like the path of least resistance to me.

 

I would honestly not even consider the possibility of trading Braun at this point. He has full no trade and will only go to one team that absolutely doesn't need him, maybe even want him. We would have no leverage, also at this point with us making a move toward contending...he might even be less apt to waive his clause.

 

Braun is a good player and will help the team this year. Anticipate 130-140 games of 900ish OPS from him, just like he's done that last handful of years. He's still probably a couple years from a significant production dropoff.

[MrTPlush]

The main reason why I think the Braun to 1B might be a load of garbage is the fact he has never even practiced there. You are trying to tell me we are going to go into spring training with this as a total mystery? What happens if we get into spring training and Ryan Braun is a trash can at 1st? There is no way Ryan Braun just becomes a #4 OFer. The only plausible way to use the players as we have now DEPENDS on Braun being acceptable at 1B. Lets not forget we have had a need for a 1B in full or in part time for years and people always throw Braun's name out there. It has never happened even when it made sense to help with all the nagging injuries. You are telling me now, just now, we are going to roll the dice and make a strong assumption he can handle it?

 

I have a really tough time believing that is a plan the Brewers want to do. Maybe as some last ditch option Z if we just can't get a good pitcher for Santana. And that isn't because I don't like Braun, don't think he can play 1st, or don't like the idea of keeping them all. I actually am ok rolling with Santana if his market isn't good and like the thought of having Braun platoon with Thames and backing up the corners. It would make a really nice offense.

 

That being said I think the Brewers fully want to and expect to trade Santana before spring training. I don't think they really want to keep Santana. Though hopefully they test Braun at 1st regardless.

[MrTPlush]

Lol First base really is not that hard.

 

It is for some players. Isn't Santana a failed 1B experiment? I like to think Braun could do it without that much trouble...but then again why has it never been attempted before? Makes me wonder.

[TJseven7]

Lol First base really is not that hard.

 

It is for some players. Isn't Santana a failed 1B experiment? I like to think Braun could do it without that much trouble...but then again why has it never been attempted before? Makes me wonder.

 

Up til the suspension he was valuable in the OF and not fragile. He's old now... and frankly when did we have 3 starters worth starting in the OF in the past 4 years? Lind Carter thames/aguilar were better than any 4th OF in the last 3 years.

 

Reynolds Overbay 2014 was the only year it would have made sense since he got busted and or hit 30.

 

So this is the 1st, if not the 1st absolutely the 2nd time when moving braun to 1st would make them better.

 

Even in his answer, if the personel requires it. It's hard to make a case that the personel required it before this year.

 

Yes Santana failed at 1b. Braun failed at 3b (started off as a SS) mostly due to the 16 throwing errors.

[Boomer5]

I used to think 1B was a position pretty much any pro baseball player could handle until we put Juan Fransisco there.

 

Braun to 1B is ideal so we can keep Santana then sign a FA starting P. But I don't know Braun can even play there until he shows he can in spring.

[pacopete4]

Lol First base really is not that hard.

 

It is for some players. Isn't Santana a failed 1B experiment? I like to think Braun could do it without that much trouble...but then again why has it never been attempted before? Makes me wonder.

 

I don’t know this for a fact but I’d be willing to bet Santana never played anything in the IF in his life. And we see what he looks like in the OF. Stiff and unathletic movement for the most part. It’s no wonder the Brewers (and possibly other teams) are not high on him. Comparing that to Braun who has always been very athletic (SS at Miami, 3B early stages of his pro career, and just the eye test) is apples and oranges. Braun could be working out at a facility right now to move to 1B. Who knows. But there’s no reason for me to doubt that he couldn’t make this transition if the Brewers want to go that route.

[KCBrewerfan34]

I believe HOUSTON tried Santana out at first. Didn’t go well obviously.

[Invader3K]

 

Hey it worked for the Kevin Mench trade as the cameras followed him through the tunnels of Miller Park

 

Yes, and it was basically the one highlight of Mench's entire time in Milwaukee.