Yelich to the Brewers in exchange for Brinson, Isan Diaz, M. Harrison and Yamamoto

[topper09er]

I guess I'm not understanding the decision between Yelich and Baez at this point. Yelich has him in almost every offensive category, a few of which by a considerable margin. The spots Baez has the lead are mostly marginal leads. Yelich beats him in WAR as well, which is a better read on a player's value adding defense, no?

 

Baez has the defensive versatility at a premium position on Yelich and that's about it. Honest question, what am I missing?

 

I think the real deciding factor is Baez plays on the team that is in 1st place in the central, Yelich plays on the team in 2nd place.

 

I think Yelich's only chance is if we overtake the Cubs. Having a bi-cycle is pretty neat and a batting title would help, but I think those things are just going to cement him in the #2 position if the Cubs win the division.

[tmwiese55]

Which is just wrong. Baseball being the sport or at least second most that one individual player has the least impact on a team winning. So if you're within a few games of each other it should be completely irrelevant.

[topper09er]

Which is just wrong. Baseball being the sport or at least second most that one individual player has the least impact on a team winning. So if you're within a few games of each other it should be completely irrelevant.

 

Key word here is should. I do think it was the deciding factor between Braun and Kemp in 2011.

 

To take it to the extreme example, do you think the World Series MVP can come from the losing team? I think this question is a good test to explain why many people prefer the MVP to come from a playoff team.

[homer]

The big power surge was on the assumption he would change his swing to favor Miller Park a bit more. I don't know if that is the reason for his surge or not though.

 

This article is a couple weeks old now, but does offer some insight on what Christian Yelich has changed...

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/what-christian-yelich-has-changed/

 

 

This is from their fantasy preview:

 

"His lineup context improves substantially by getting off the sinking ship that is Miami, but more importantly, he goes from the 29th-best park for lefty homers to the 3rd-best."

[DuWayne Steurer]

Baez currently has a .328 OBP. Pretty sure that would tie Andre Dawson for the lowest OBP ever by an MVP were Javy to win.

 

The electorate has evolved a lot since 1987. I hope.

 

 

This post made me curious obviously. Zoilo Versailles won the AL MVP in 1965 with a .273/.319/.462 slash line. Yuck and a half.

 

Marty Marion won the NL award in 1944 with a .267/324/362 slash line. He must have been a HECK of a defender.....

 

Nice digging, RoCo.

 

Also, digging the Billy Jo Robidoux avatar.

 

Versalles had a nice season in '65, but a sub .800 OPS is still not an MVP caliber season, even in an offensively depressed era like the 60's.

 

I also know that prior to 1930, players that had won a previous MVP were ineligible to win it again, which is why Babe Ruth only ever won MVP one time (what a joke). This is probably why you have a guy like Roger Peckinpaugh winning it in 1925.

 

I still have no explanation for Marty Marion taking it over any of several more worthy candidates in 44. Marion is listed as having 3+ fielding WAR, but that's based solely off of fielding percentage and chances per game vs league average chances per game. I have no doubt the guy was probably a fine fielder, but there's no way to know if he was THAT GOOD. I just have a hard time taking a sub -700 OPS guy and saying "yeah, that's the MVP" when you have some .900+ OPS guys right behind him who are putting up 7-8-9 WAR offensive seasons. I get it that SS defense is important, but it just doesn't close the gap that much.

[tmwiese55]

Which is just wrong. Baseball being the sport or at least second most that one individual player has the least impact on a team winning. So if you're within a few games of each other it should be completely irrelevant.

 

Key word here is should. I do think it was the deciding factor between Braun and Kemp in 2011.

 

To take it to the extreme example, do you think the World Series MVP can come from the losing team? I think this question is a good test to explain why many people prefer the MVP to come from a playoff team.

 

True and if it is a virtual tie then sure have that be a factor, like Braun/Kemp. MKE won 14 more games that year btw. Also, playoff team vs non playoff team is often a significant difference in wins and you can make an argument of putting up stats in a lower pressure situation. If one guy is on the best team and the other the second best team and they're only 2-3 games difference it really shouldn't matter. But you're right, should is the key word. Just takes a few people to say 'derp his team won the division.'

 

Note: personally I have no problem giving it to non-playoff players. Trout is the best player in the league, any year he's healthy he should probably get the MVP. But as noted above, one can make the arguments about pressure etc.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Also, digging the Billy Jo Robidoux avatar.

 

Also, thanks! Billy Jo was one of the guys I was like "THIS DUDE IS GONNA BE HUUUUGE when he gets to Milwaukee!!!!" His 1985 El Paso stats were outrageous, and of course little me had no idea what "ballpark effect" was, and I was just super disappointed that he made it to the show and completely flamed out.

 

I grew up in Janesville, (and still live here....hah), and used to go to TONS of Beloit Brewers games (they were the Brewers then, not the Snappers), and loved seeing our future mediocre players file through. Good times. Billy Jo was "my guy" though.

 

Todd Dunn had an apartment right next to my dad's place. Apparently he was a turd. Hahahaha.

[Ennder]

The Cubs being in 1st place most likely will have nothing at all to do with the MVP race assuming the Brewers make the playoffs. They do consider playoff vs non playoff, but not seeding. Braun beat Kemp out because of some big HR's down the stretch that got the Brewers in the playoffs for the first time in forever and his battle for the batting title that went all the way to the final day of the season. Part of it was also Kemp playing on the west coast so nobody seeing him, same reason Trout doesn't have more MVPs. That one was narrative driven, not team driven. The same way if Yelich beats Baez it is likely because of how hot he got late and the double cycle.

[MadScientist]

Which is just wrong. Baseball being the sport or at least second most that one individual player has the least impact on a team winning. So if you're within a few games of each other it should be completely irrelevant.

 

Key word here is should. I do think it was the deciding factor between Braun and Kemp in 2011.

 

To take it to the extreme example, do you think the World Series MVP can come from the losing team? I think this question is a good test to explain why many people prefer the MVP to come from a playoff team.

 

Well an ALDS MVP came from a losing team once...

[tmwiese55]

I also agree that series MVPs could/should sometimes go to losing teams when their performances are clearly superior. Think LBJ in their first loss to the Warriors when he had no help (love and Kyrie hurt) and had to do everything himself and still won 2 games. Can't think of one of the top of my head for baseball but I'd guess Bonds would be a possibility if we went back and looked at stats.

[homer]

 

Also, digging the Billy Jo Robidoux avatar.

 

Also, thanks! Billy Jo was one of the guys I was like "THIS DUDE IS GONNA BE HUUUUGE when he gets to Milwaukee!!!!" His 1985 El Paso stats were outrageous, and of course little me had no idea what "ballpark effect" was, and I was just super disappointed that he made it to the show and completely flamed out.

.

 

There were so many guys that went through El Paso that put up monster numbers. Glenn Braggs, Joey Meyer, Billy Jo, all went through the same year.

[DuWayne Steurer]

 

Also, digging the Billy Jo Robidoux avatar.

 

Also, thanks! Billy Jo was one of the guys I was like "THIS DUDE IS GONNA BE HUUUUGE when he gets to Milwaukee!!!!" His 1985 El Paso stats were outrageous, and of course little me had no idea what "ballpark effect" was, and I was just super disappointed that he made it to the show and completely flamed out.

.

 

There were so many guys that went through El Paso that put up monster numbers. Glenn Braggs, Joey Meyer, Billy Jo, all went through the same year.

 

 

Glenn Braggs..... that dude was freakin' ripped. He should have/could have put up some good power numbers. I remember after he left MLB he went over to Japan and had a couple of big power seasons. Ugh. So many disappointments.

[StearnsFTW]

 

Also, thanks! Billy Jo was one of the guys I was like "THIS DUDE IS GONNA BE HUUUUGE when he gets to Milwaukee!!!!" His 1985 El Paso stats were outrageous, and of course little me had no idea what "ballpark effect" was, and I was just super disappointed that he made it to the show and completely flamed out.

.

 

There were so many guys that went through El Paso that put up monster numbers. Glenn Braggs, Joey Meyer, Billy Jo, all went through the same year.

 

 

Glenn Braggs..... that dude was freakin' ripped. He should have/could have put up some good power numbers. I remember after he left MLB he went over to Japan and had a couple of big power seasons. Ugh. So many disappointments.

 

 

I'll never forget how shocked I was that Glenn Braggs was African-American. Hilarious how the world has changed in 30 years.

 

[pitchleague]

Which is just wrong. Baseball being the sport or at least second most that one individual player has the least impact on a team winning. So if you're within a few games of each other it should be completely irrelevant.

 

Key word here is should. I do think it was the deciding factor between Braun and Kemp in 2011.

 

To take it to the extreme example, do you think the World Series MVP can come from the losing team? I think this question is a good test to explain why many people prefer the MVP to come from a playoff team.

 

 

I don't believe that has happened. BUT, if I remember correctly, Fred Lynn of the Angels won the ALCS MVP in '82 for the losing Angels team.

[dlk9s]

You thought Glenn Braggs was ripped back then, check him out now.

[Baldkin]

Marty Marion won the NL award in 1944 with a .267/324/362 slash line. He must have been a HECK of a defender.....

Well, he was a Cardinal, and from what I hear VERY classy

 

Seriously though, that one is a head-scratcher. Granted it was during the war years and the talent league-wide was diluted, but Marion had a .686 OPS, 6 homers, and just 63 RBIs! Must've had something to do with the Cardinals winning the Series that year I'm sure.

 

Any one of the next three guys in the voting that season would've been my choice:

 

Bill Nicholson, Cubs -- .287/391/.545/.935 OPS, 33 HR's, 122 RBIs

Dixie Walker, Dodgers -- .357/.434/.529/.963 OPS, 13 HR's, 91 RBIs

Stan Musial, Cardinals -- .347/.440/.549/.990 OPS, 12 HR's, 94 RBIs - you'd think Musial would've won it with St. Louis taking it all that year

 

I guess he was that good!

 

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/7a722fee

 

While Marion was already recognized as an elite glove man, his high-profile Series performance changed the conversation. “I’ve looked at a lot of shortstops in my day,” said Connie Mack, whose days in the majors spanned nearly 60 years, “but that fellow is the best I’ve ever seen…. Of course, Honus [Wagner] was a better hitter, but I don’t think he could cover more ground than Marion.”7 Now the issue was not whether Marion was the best shortstop of his time, but whether he was the best of all time. The ancient umpire Bill Klem said he was Wagner’s equal. Braves manager Bob Coleman, who had been Wagner’s teammate, commented, “It seems humanly impossible to be better than Marion defensively.”

[topper09er]

Which is just wrong. Baseball being the sport or at least second most that one individual player has the least impact on a team winning. So if you're within a few games of each other it should be completely irrelevant.

 

Key word here is should. I do think it was the deciding factor between Braun and Kemp in 2011.

 

To take it to the extreme example, do you think the World Series MVP can come from the losing team? I think this question is a good test to explain why many people prefer the MVP to come from a playoff team.

 

 

I don't believe that has happened. BUT, if I remember correctly, Fred Lynn of the Angels won the ALCS MVP in '82 for the losing Angels team.

 

Bobby Richardson won it in '60 for the losing Yankees

[topper09er]

The Cubs being in 1st place most likely will have nothing at all to do with the MVP race assuming the Brewers make the playoffs. They do consider playoff vs non playoff, but not seeding.

 

Good point I think you are right here

 

 

Braun beat Kemp out because of some big HR's down the stretch that got the Brewers in the playoffs for the first time in forever and his battle for the batting title that went all the way to the final day of the season. Part of it was also Kemp playing on the west coast so nobody seeing him, same reason Trout doesn't have more MVPs. That one was narrative driven, not team driven.

 

I do disagree a little here, I think the main reason Braun won was playoffs for the Brewers vs no playoffs for the Dodgers. I think the same for Trout, he has never finished below 2nd in the voting (among his full seasons) so I don't think people are forgetting about him playing on the West Coast. He lost out to Cabrera twice, one being his triple crown year so I think that explains it, the other one the Tigers won their division by 1 game and Cabrera bested Trout in HR, RBI AVE/OBP/SLG and OPS. Then he lost to Donaldson who led the Blue Jays to the playoffs.

[bm1090]

The year Braun hit the late home runs to get us in the playoffs was 2008. He won MVP in 2011.

[tmwiese55]

I think Braun did it both years with clutch late season game winning ding dongs, but could be wrong.

[pacopete4]

I thought Yelich was going to have one of those moments last night until he whiffed on two right down the middle. It happens but I just thought it was time.

[Outlander]

I think Braun did it both years with clutch late season game winning ding dongs, but could be wrong.

Braun stunk most of September 2008 but had a grand slam walk off in the last home stand and the 8th inning home run against the Cubs in game 162. Braun was great in September 2011, as well as pretty much the whole year. He hit the game winning three run home run in the bottom of the 8th against the Marlins that clinched the division with a few games to play.

[MrTPlush]

I think Braun did it both years with clutch late season game winning ding dongs, but could be wrong.

Braun stunk most of September 2008 but had a grand slam walk off in the last home stand and the 8th inning home run against the Cubs in game 162. Braun was great in September 2011, as well as pretty much the whole year. He hit the game winning three run home run in the bottom of the 8th against the Marlins that clinched the division with a few games to play.

 

Also had a walk-off homer against the Rockies in mid-September.

 

No one really remembers that like 2008 because in 2011 we were coasting into the playoffs.

[homer]

Yelich since the AS break:

 

.358./.419/.725

 

That has to be the best half season in Brewer history. And yes, the AS break isn't really at the halfway mark.

 

Edit: Yup

 

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yelich since the AS break:

 

.358./.419/.725

 

That has to be the best half season in Brewer history.

 

Challenge accepted!

 

Looked at Molitor's '87, Yount's '82, Braun's 2007, and 2011, but in all these seasons, these guys were pretty consistent in both the first and second halves.

 

Yelich was good in the first half this year. Nothing remarkable. He's been stupidly white-hot unstoppable in the 2nd half. I think you might be right that this is unmatchable in Brewers history.

 

EDIT #2, I found a close one!

 

Sixto Lezcano in 1979 put up a 2nd half slash line of .316/.403/.673 for an OPS+ of 193, compared to Yelich's 2nd half OPS+ of 207. That might be as close as it gets.