Darvish

[Dadbauer]

There is a significant section of Rangers fans that have the “not clutch” criticism of Darvish. I’ve always found him frustratingly inconsistent. He sometimes seems to screw around with too many different pitches and my perception is that he struggles to work deep into games. But the Rangers are my other team since I live in DFW so my judgment is likely compromised.

 

I was going to argue that maybe they didn't have a good pitching coach but then I remembered Mike Maddux.

[brewmann04]

I just hope DS keeps his offer and not add to it.

[Warning Track Power]

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/22349464/minnesota-twins-pitcher-ervin-santana-10-12-weeks-finger-surgery

 

Gotta figure the Twins will give an extra year to Darvish given this news.

[pacopete4]

They’ll give an extra year because their pitcher will miss a couple weeks of the season? Is this really how GM’s operate?

[Warning Track Power]

They’ll give an extra year because their pitcher will miss a couple weeks of the season? Is this really how GM’s operate?

10-12 weeks is roughly half the season

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

They’ll give an extra year because their pitcher will miss a couple weeks of the season? Is this really how GM’s operate?

10-12 weeks is roughly half the season

 

Now when you are starting at a week before spring training starts. He'll likely be back by the end of April/beginning of May. On the shelf roughly the first month of the season.

[Warning Track Power]

They’ll give an extra year because their pitcher will miss a couple weeks of the season? Is this really how GM’s operate?

10-12 weeks is roughly half the season

 

Now when you are starting at a week before spring training starts. He'll likely be back by the end of April/beginning of May. On the shelf roughly the first month of the season.

I stand corrected. I read it as missing 10-12 weeks of the regular season. My mistake.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I stand corrected. I read it as missing 10-12 weeks of the regular season. My mistake.

 

Totally understandable. I imagine he will have to make a couple rehab starts as he'll be missing all of spring training, but being a vet I imagine it's not going to be a big deal. At least not a "we have to go throw $150 million at Darvish" deal.

[rht]

So if Darvish does sign with some other team, I'd hate to lose another draft pick with the other 3 top arms available. Lets say the Brewers were to offer Lance Lynn or Cobb hypothetically 3 years at 49M with team options for years 4 and 5, anyone know how the options come into play if that would be considered a part of the total offer or just guaranteed? Pretty sure the new CBA rules say that if signed over $50M there is draft pick compensation.

 

That's the only way I'd want to sign one of these other 3 guys, but they'd(Cobb and Lynn) have to drop down to 3 years likely unless Arrieta does 2 years under $50M with team options in later years, but I don't see him doing that.

[KeithStone53151]

So if Darvish does sign with some other team, I'd hate to lose another draft pick with the other 3 top arms available. Lets say the Brewers were to offer Lance Lynn or Cobb hypothetically 3 years at 49M with team options for years 4 and 5, anyone know how the options come into play if that would be considered a part of the total offer or just guaranteed? Pretty sure the new CBA rules say that if signed over $50M there is draft pick compensation.

 

That's the only way I'd want to sign one of these other 3 guys, but they'd(Cobb and Lynn) have to drop down to 3 years likely unless Arrieta does 2 years under $50M with team options in later years, but I don't see him doing that.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the signing team loses a pick as long as it's more than a 1 year deal. The team losing the player only gets a pick if the deal is $50 million or more.

[MrTPlush]

So if Darvish does sign with some other team, I'd hate to lose another draft pick with the other 3 top arms available. Lets say the Brewers were to offer Lance Lynn or Cobb hypothetically 3 years at 49M with team options for years 4 and 5, anyone know how the options come into play if that would be considered a part of the total offer or just guaranteed? Pretty sure the new CBA rules say that if signed over $50M there is draft pick compensation.

 

That's the only way I'd want to sign one of these other 3 guys, but they'd(Cobb and Lynn) have to drop down to 3 years likely unless Arrieta does 2 years under $50M with team options in later years, but I don't see him doing that.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the signing team loses a pick as long as it's more than a 1 year deal. The team losing the player only gets a pick if the deal is $50 million or more.

 

I have no idea where you got that information, but no. You lose a pick if the player declines a qualifying offer. A player must be with a team the entire year to be eligible to get offered one. Yu Darvish was traded mid-season which meant the Dodgers could not give him a qualifying offer.

[KeithStone53151]

So if Darvish does sign with some other team, I'd hate to lose another draft pick with the other 3 top arms available. Lets say the Brewers were to offer Lance Lynn or Cobb hypothetically 3 years at 49M with team options for years 4 and 5, anyone know how the options come into play if that would be considered a part of the total offer or just guaranteed? Pretty sure the new CBA rules say that if signed over $50M there is draft pick compensation.

 

That's the only way I'd want to sign one of these other 3 guys, but they'd(Cobb and Lynn) have to drop down to 3 years likely unless Arrieta does 2 years under $50M with team options in later years, but I don't see him doing that.

 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the signing team loses a pick as long as it's more than a 1 year deal. The team losing the player only gets a pick if the deal is $50 million or more.

 

I have no idea where you got that information, but no. You lose a pick if the player declines a qualifying offer. A player must be with a team the entire year to be eligible to get offered one. Yu Darvish was traded mid-season which meant the Dodgers could not give him a qualifying offer.

 

I stand corrected. I looked a bit further into this, I have no idea where the 1 year part came from. The pick(s) lost by the team signing the player and pick received by the team losing the player vary significantly based on revenue sharing, luxury tax, and the $50 million threshold I noted. The rules are a bit complex, you can go to the link below if you want to dig into the specific compensation details.

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/mlb-qualifying-offer-rules-explained/c-259650658

[DR28]

Twins have submitted offer to Yu.

[Madhawk23]

So, if Darvish doesn't sign with the Brewers (which all signs point to him signing elsewhere), where do we hope he lands? My preference would be that we keep him out of Chicago, but if the Cubs don't sign Darvish, then I would guess they'd turn their attention to Cobb. And, I guess I'm thinking that my #1 choice out of the F/A starters would be that the Brewers sign Cobb. So, let's say that the Dodgers clear salary and are able to bring back Darvish (have no idea how realistic this is?), then the Cubs probably end up signing Cobb, leaving us to either pony up for Arrieta or be left with the forth best option in Lynn.

 

I would guess that the dominoes start to fall pretty quickly if/when Darvish ever decides to pull the trigger, so I'm just curious as to how everyone hopes that this all plays out?

[82brewcrew82]

So, if Darvish doesn't sign with the Brewers (which all signs point to him signing elsewhere), where do we hope he lands? My preference would be that we keep him out of Chicago, but if the Cubs don't sign Darvish, then I would guess they'd turn their attention to Cobb. And, I guess I'm thinking that my #1 choice out of the F/A starters would be that the Brewers sign Cobb. So, let's say that the Dodgers clear salary and are able to bring back Darvish (have no idea how realistic this is?), then the Cubs probably end up signing Cobb, leaving us to either pony up for Arrieta or be left with the forth best option in Lynn.

 

I would guess that the dominoes start to fall pretty quickly if/when Darvish ever decides to pull the trigger, so I'm just curious as to how everyone hopes that this all plays out?

Part of me is questioning whether the Cubs really want to add another starter. They have Lester/Hendricks/Quintana at the top. They singed Chatwood to start and they seem to like Montgomery to close out the rotation. They know they have arbitration issues coming up. I think they are just trying to keep him out of Milwaukee believe it or not. I think LA is the only real place for him with Maybe Minnesota creeping in. I'd be fine with him in Minnesota.

[Madhawk23]

So, if Darvish doesn't sign with the Brewers (which all signs point to him signing elsewhere), where do we hope he lands? My preference would be that we keep him out of Chicago, but if the Cubs don't sign Darvish, then I would guess they'd turn their attention to Cobb. And, I guess I'm thinking that my #1 choice out of the F/A starters would be that the Brewers sign Cobb. So, let's say that the Dodgers clear salary and are able to bring back Darvish (have no idea how realistic this is?), then the Cubs probably end up signing Cobb, leaving us to either pony up for Arrieta or be left with the forth best option in Lynn.

 

I would guess that the dominoes start to fall pretty quickly if/when Darvish ever decides to pull the trigger, so I'm just curious as to how everyone hopes that this all plays out?

Part of me is questioning whether the Cubs really want to add another starter. They have Lester/Hendricks/Quintana at the top. They singed Chatwood to start and they seem to like Montgomery to close out the rotation. They know they have arbitration issues coming up. I think they are just trying to keep him out of Milwaukee believe it or not. I think LA is the only real place for him with Maybe Minnesota creeping in. I'd be fine with him in Minnesota.

 

I hear what you are saying, but I also think that the Cubs probably feel some pressure to go out and add one more SP to their rotation - considering the moves that the Brewers have made thus far, and the expectation that the Brewers are definitely looking to add one of the top 4 SP's. Maybe it is all just posturing on their part to drive up the price so that it prevents the Brewers from getting him, but I guess I have my doubts on that.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I hear what you are saying, but I also think that the Cubs probably feel some pressure to go out and add one more SP to their rotation - considering the moves that the Brewers have made thus far, and the expectation that the Brewers are definitely looking to add one of the top 4 SP's. Maybe it is all just posturing on their part to drive up the price so that it prevents the Brewers from getting him, but I guess I have my doubts on that.

 

If the Cubs really and truly wanted Darvish, and he wanted to play for them, he would have signed with them already. That team has money coming out its ears, and I doubt that luxury tax implications are going to hold them back.

 

No, the fear in Theo's office is that they are going to be stuck with another Heyward contract. Too many of those contracts get GMs fired. Sure, Darvish is a good pitcher, even a TOR #1 when he's on, but he's also had his share of injuries, and his World Series performance left doubt in a lot of teams' minds.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if Darvish is weighing three very similar 4-year contracts from the Brewers, Cubs and Twins right now. His preference is definitely not to play in the Midwest, though, and I don't think he wants the pressure of being a rotation savior that he'd get playing for any of those teams. But ... all three teams are playoff contenders, so its a matter of him choosing where he feels he's the best fit. The Brewers definitely need him more than the Cubs or Twins, but the expectations would also be higher in Milwaukee. We saw Sabathia shine under that kind of pressure, but we've also seen guys like Sheets and even Greinke to an extent falter under it. Is Darvish a bulldog like Sabathia was in his prime? Or does he get in his own head like Sheets and Greinke?

[MrTPlush]

Why do signs point to us not signing him? Nothing has really been reported to say that. There is more actually contrary to that.

[82brewcrew82]

The longer it drags out the longer Milwaukee feels like the right fit. I just can't get my head around why he wouldn't have singed already if he really wanted to be here and the team really wanted him here.

[pacopete4]

I think Yu is being told to not sign so they can continue out this process of "collusion" against the players. My guess is the players union really has it on these guys that there needs to be some sort of boycott so that the owners don't get away with all these "deals" they have been getting. Pure speculation on my part but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[Warning Track Power]

It wouldn't surprise me if Darvish is weighing three very similar 4-year contracts from the Brewers, Cubs and Twins right now.

I think this is a fair statement. I would go a step further and say the Brewers and Twins probably have the best offer on the table currently. I am guessing until the Dodgers are officially out, the Cubs will keep their offer lower and only up it if it becomes apparent the Dodgers are out and the Cubs are now his desired destination.

[MrTPlush]

I think the Brewers offered Darvish 5. They handed Cain 5(which was considered steep for how his market shaped) so I see no reason they wouldn’t aggressively offer Darvish 5 years too. We know the Brewers want a starter badly, have the money, and keeping prospects would be stellar.

[82brewcrew82]

It wouldn't surprise me if Darvish is weighing three very similar 4-year contracts from the Brewers, Cubs and Twins right now.

I think this is a fair statement. I would go a step further and say the Brewers and Twins probably have the best offer on the table currently. I am guessing until the Dodgers are officially out, the Cubs will keep their offer lower and only up it if it becomes apparent the Dodgers are out and the Cubs are now his desired destination.

I think location plays a role too. If my only options were in places I didn't want to be, then I'd wait it out too.

[KeithStone53151]

I think the Brewers offered Darvish 5. They handed Cain 5(which was considered steep for how his market shaped) so I see no reason they wouldn’t aggressively offer Darvish 5 years too. We know the Brewers want a starter badly, have the money, and keeping prospects would be stellar.

 

Add to that the 5 years of team control yelich has. I don't think our team is going to change significantly after this offseason for the next 3 years, we have commitments/team control of most key guys for at least 3 years...many as high as 5 years. I wouldn't be surprised if he's hoping for a 3-4 year window with this group and do a big cycle of aging talent for young talent(prospects) with an ideal goal of a 1-2 year retool.

[trwi7]

I think location plays a role too. If my only options were in places I didn't want to be, then I'd wait it out too.

 

He could always do this.