Significant Acquisition Coming? Krasnick says "buzz" Brewers close to a trade

[82brewcrew82]

Reading through this, my gut feeling is there are legs to the Cleveland idea. Kipnis and Salazar both may be odd men out in Cleveland and both seem like guys the Brewers would add. I could see them having interest in Santana and possibly Villar, and this would allow them to clear salary to pursue Machado, etc. My guess is the major hangup would be whether or not the Tribe kicked any cash back due to the clause where Kipnis' option kicks in with a trade.

 

Makes a ton more sense than Ellsbury. Kipnis is overpriced, but only if you base it on his 2017. He's pretty similar over his career to Walker. They certainly could use Santana, having lost Carlos Santana in FA. They might even have interest in Thames too, opening up 1B for Shaw and freeing a spot for Brewers to sign Moustakas. Imagine an IF of Moustakas, Arcia, Kipnis, and Shaw and an OF of Braun, Cain, Phillips/Brinson with a rotation of Anderson, Davies, Salazar, Chacin, Woordruff/Suter/Guerra/Gallardo.

That rotation still doesn't cut if for me. They will need to make one more move.

[FVBrewerFan]

A question for the group... if/when the Brewers begin making player acquisitions in the coming days or weeks, do you think they will be trades that clearly help the team immediately in 2018, or trades that prioritize longer term value with potentially less immediate impact?

 

...And yes, we all hope for both, but answer one versus the other. Think Josh Donaldson or Jose Abreu (as mentioned in this thread) versus the concept of Francisco Mejia or taking on bad contracts.

That is the question that keeps hanging me up. If there is a move "A" that serves as the lynch pin, and that move seems to be taking on a bad contract to get prospects, how does that translate to "all in" and a cascade of other trades that back that up?

 

Remember that HH19 said t his would be a big trade. Maybe our definitions of "big" differ, but that trade would have to a) send a significant piece out of Milwaukee and b)bring back a piece/pieces that make the team better now. It can't be a move to just take on a salary dump and get prospects.

 

The only thing that I have seen that makes any sense given the information that has been shared is the Cleveland idea. The only other option is that if trade "A" is a salary dump, the acquired prospect(s) are just moving through.

 

I think it's important to remember HH19 is just graciously passing on what he has heard. I think he would even admit (maybe already has) that he doesn't know the entire plan. So these bits and pieces are very interesting, but will never fill in all the blanks.

 

For example, it is called plan "A" for a reason. It's not the only plan. If they got lucky on Darvish it may/ may not have changed their plans. On all these deals it takes two to tango, so the entire off-season plan can't be based on a series of events you can't control.

 

I'm sure DS, like all GMs, has a bunch of potential moves in mind, and depending on how the dominos start falling the plan changes accordingly.

[brewerfan82]

Keep it coming HighHeat19. Most enjoy all the connections we can get to the inside.

I just want to second this! No matter what comes or doesn't come from this week, love the info! Thanks HH19!

[splitterpfj]

I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere in this thread, but what are the details of Kipnis' option for the 2020 season?

 

If the Brewers get Salazar, without giving back a pitcher who may contribute in '18, they've got Anderson, Chacin, Davies, Salazar and Woodruff, backed by Guerra and Suter, with Burnes working his way up, and Nelson working his way back, (sorry, Gallardo fans, I don't see Yo as more than a bullpen arm these days).

 

That, is, "stacking pitching", or, "quality depth." You don't make it with five starting pitchers, you need competent guys in reserve, to plug the leaks that invariably spring up. It's not perfect, Woodruff has to make it, Nelson has to heal, and be effective when he returns, etc, but it's a solid approach.

 

Domingo Santana makes a lot of sense for Cleveland, he replaces the right-handed power they lost in Carlos Santana, and they'd have him for four years. Salazar and Kipnis both make sense for Milwaukee, IF they are healthy.

 

Kipnis played in 90 games last year, Salazar threw 103 IP, and Kipnis is due 28 million dollars over the next two years, with a team option for 2020. There's risk here for the Brewers, for sure - if they're asking Cleveland for money or prospects - I can see why.

[StearnsFTW]

I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere in this thread, but what are the details of Kipnis' option for the 2020 season?

 

If the Brewers get Salazar, without giving back a pitcher who may contribute in '18, they've got Anderson, Chacin, Davies, Salazar and Woodruff, backed by Guerra and Suter, with Burnes working his way up, and Nelson working his way back, (sorry, Gallardo fans, I don't see Yo as more than a bullpen arm these days).

 

That, is, "stacking pitching", or, "quality depth." You don't make it with five starting pitchers, you need competent guys in reserve, to plug the leaks that invariably spring up. It's not perfect, Woodruff has to make it, Nelson has to heal, and be effective when he returns, etc, but it's a solid approach.

 

Domingo Santana makes a lot of sense for Cleveland, he replaces the right-handed power they lost in Carlos Santana, and they'd have him for four years. Salazar and Kipnis both make sense for Milwaukee, IF they are healthy.

 

Kipnis played in 90 games last year, Salazar threw 103 IP, and Kipnis is due 28 million dollars over the next two years, with a team option for 2020. There's risk here for the Brewers, for sure - if they're asking Cleveland for money or prospects - I can see why.

 

$16.5/$2.5 club option

 

I'm on board for a Kipnis/Salazar for Santana type deal. Salazar is fantastic when healthy.

[mlloyd10]

Kipnis/Salazar/Mejia for Santana/Woodruff

[pacopete4]

I think we might want to stop including Mejia in our proposals. Not because I don't want him like many do, but because it just doesn't seem realistic for the Indians to move him at this point. His value has increased so much since the Lucroy trade, no trade shenanigans.

[MadThinker88]

Kipnis/Salazar/Mejia for Santana/Woodruff

 

No chance. as phone line goes dead.....

[JosephC]

Can't see the Indians trading Kipnis and Kipnis is not a zero value player. Jose Ramirez will be playing third base. If the Indians trade Kipnis is leaves only Erik Gonzalez to play second base and he's more of a utility type infielder with a lifetime .262/.282/.405/.687 slash line in limited MLB opportunities. Kipnis battled shoulder and hamstring injuries last year, was limited to 90 games and had a poor season overall. But over the previous 4 years Kipnis slashed .276/.349/.429/.778. Up and down defensively, he was poor in 2014 and 2017 but was on the plus side in 2015 and 2016. All told his average WAR between Fangraphs and Baseball Reference over the last five years are 5.1, 0.65, 4.75, 4.4, 0.55. He may have had a bad year last year, but over the previous 4 years had been a 3.7 WAR player on average and since he is entering his age 31 season there is no reason to expect the 2017 drop-off was a permanent thing, more likely due to injury. Depth Charts and Steamer have projected him on average to be a 1.75 WAR player in 2018 but I think that's low just like their projection for Domingo Santana (1.7). I think Kipnis is a real good bet to be well above the 2 WAR mark barring injury. Definitely don't see him as a zero surplus value player when he was a 4+ WAR player in both 2015 and 2016 and is only entering his age 31 season.

[MadThinker88]

Can't see the Indians trading Kipnis and Kipnis is not a zero value player. Jose Ramirez will be playing third base. If the Indians trade Kipnis is leaves only Erik Gonzalez to play second base and he's more of a utility type infielder with a lifetime .262/.282/.405/.687 slash line in limited MLB opportunities. Kipnis battled shoulder and hamstring injuries last year, was limited to 90 games and had a poor season overall. But over the previous 4 years Kipnis slashed .276/.349/.429/.778. Up and down defensively, he was poor in 2014 and 2017 but was on the plus side in 2015 and 2016. All told his average WAR between Fangraphs and Baseball Reference over the last five years are 5.1, 0.65, 4.75, 4.4, 0.55. He may have had a bad year last year, but over the previous 4 years had been a 3.7 WAR and since he is entering his age 31 season there is no reason to expect the 2017 drop-off was a permanent thing, more likely due to injury. Depth Charts and Steamer have projected him on average to be a 1.75 WAR player in 2018 but I think that's low just like their projection for Domingo Santana (1.7). I think Kipnis is a real good bet to be well above the 2 WAR mark barring injury. Definitely don't see him as a zero surplus value player when he was a 4+ WAR player in both 2015 and 2016 and is only entering his age 31 season.

 

Francona (& most of the fans) realize that JRam is a BETTER second baseman than Kipnis & that is with JRam finishing in top 3 for old Glove at 3rd.

JRam was at 2nd as he came thru the minors...

[splitterpfj]

Kipnis is absolutely not "zero value" - but he's also not, "zero risk." Kipnis is getting paid, he is now over 30, and he is coming off a season wrecked by injury - it's complicated.

 

As for Salazar, if he had pitched through '16 and '17 the way he pitched through the first half of '16 - it doesn't matter what you say about Domingo Santana - there's no reason for Cleveland to let him go.

 

This is not easy - the talent Kipnis and Salazar have is obvious, but so is the money Kipnis is making, and most significantly, so are the 120 IP per year Salazar has been able to pitch over the last two years.

 

Domingo Santana is young, he is inexpensive, he is healthy, and he provides something the Indians have a clear need for as their current window edges toward a close .... he's a right-handed power hitter.

 

If you're the Indians, you probably just keep Mejia where he is, but if they made him available, if you listen to, "they", Cleveland would have every right to ask for Lewis Brinson in return. Getting some of Kipnis' money in the deal may be possible, or, getting some prospects in the deal may be possible, but that doesn't mean Cleveland is ready to throw an elite prospect at the Brewers, to get a deal done.

[superfly]

Can't see the Indians trading Kipnis and Kipnis is not a zero value player. Jose Ramirez will be playing third base. If the Indians trade Kipnis is leaves only Erik Gonzalez to play second base and he's more of a utility type infielder with a lifetime .262/.282/.405/.687 slash line in limited MLB opportunities. Kipnis battled shoulder and hamstring injuries last year, was limited to 90 games and had a poor season overall. But over the previous 4 years Kipnis slashed .276/.349/.429/.778. Up and down defensively, he was poor in 2014 and 2017 but was on the plus side in 2015 and 2016. All told his average WAR between Fangraphs and Baseball Reference over the last five years are 5.1, 0.65, 4.75, 4.4, 0.55. He may have had a bad year last year, but over the previous 4 years had been a 3.7 WAR player on average and since he is entering his age 31 season there is no reason to expect the 2017 drop-off was a permanent thing, more likely due to injury. Depth Charts and Steamer have projected him on average to be a 1.75 WAR player in 2018 but I think that's low just like their projection for Domingo Santana (1.7). I think Kipnis is a real good bet to be well above the 2 WAR mark barring injury. Definitely don't see him as a zero surplus value player when he was a 4+ WAR player in both 2015 and 2016 and is only entering his age 31 season.

 

Sounds like a Neil Walker location to me.

[SandyTolan]

What about adding Hernan to any Cleveland deal? That would help with their 2B issues...

[82brewcrew82]

I think we might want to stop including Mejia in our proposals. Not because I don't want him like many do, but because it just doesn't seem realistic for the Indians to move him at this point. His value has increased so much since the Lucroy trade, no trade shenanigans.

[sarcasm]Quit sucking the life out of this thread![/sarcasm]

[rht]

Thinking along the lines of AL teams that have a good SP and 2B to offer, what about the Baltimore Orioles? If they do in fact offer up Manny Machado, they could be in retool/rebuild mode. Zach Britton it likely out for the year and a FA in 2019. They do have a wave of younger players that they could build around in Chance Sicso, Austin Hays and Trey Mancini that the Brewers could supplement well with.

 

I would think the Brewers would have solid interest in both Dylan Bundy and Jonathan Schoop, I know someone mentioned the trade "A" would be big, this could be big

 

Bundy: FA in 2022, 25 years old in 2018 https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/dylan-bundy-is-looking-the-part/

Schoop: FA in 2020, 123 OPS+, 293/338/841 , 5.1 WAR in 17

 

I know they are looking for young pitchers to build around, we could package Woodruff along with several prospects

[JosephC]

But if the Indians trade Kipnis and Ramirez plays second base, then they are forced to give Erik Gonzalez or Yandy Diaz the third base job and either of them would be a significant downgrade. Just not a realistic move for a team that is completely in win-now mode. Clearly they are not deep enough at infield to treat Kipnis as a "no value" player and dump his salary on another team, especially since he does have positive surplus value.

 

Now with Salazar on the other hand....Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer, Tomlin, Clevenger plus Ryan Merritt and Cody Anderson (should be back from Tommy John)...they have a solid starting five and two pretty decent insurance options. And there are the reports that the Indians are looking to deal Salazar because of the depth they have on the mound. So Salazar talk makes sense. Of all the trade stuff that has been discussed, Salazar probably makes more sense than anybody. But these expanded scenarios with Mejia and Kipnis aren't really worth discussing. To think that the Indians would trade Mejia in a deal where the big piece they are obtaining is Domingo Santana is not even close to being plausible, and Kipnis certainly is not going to be a "throw-in" as part of a larger trade.

[DR28]

I'm getting on board with the Indians trade then signing Cain.

 

Cain

Thames

Braun

Shaw

Kipnis

Pina

Phillips

Arcia

 

Anderson

Salazar

Davies

Chacin

Woodruff

 

Yea losing Santana is gonna hurt... But I like this team!

[brewcrewdue80]

Agreed on the trade proposals including Mejia. At this stage he's a deadline deal or a guy like touted here with Brinson. Mejia's trade would have to move the Indians WS chance needle to include him. Santana/Woodfuff just about noone on the Brewers do that. And no, Trading 3 quantity prospects(say Ortiz, Diaz, Peralta) when making a Santana for Kipnis/Salazar isn't getting Mejia either. To make a 10 player trade among 2 teams is just fantasy, not reality.

 

Seems the buzz is gone and now we wait a couple days for something to develop in to even just "Buzz".

 

I am in the real belief that A was Ellsbury waiving his no-trade clause to come to Milw on trade. If I'm taking a SP prospect back, I'd want Justus Sheffield over Albert Abreu. Younger and farther along in reaching the Majors. BA ranked him 41 to Abreu's 77. Maybe you kick back a Phil Bickford to the Yankees as the guy has his issues and delayed progression but still valued. But all that was hinging on Ellsbury to waive his no-trade clause and I feel he wouldn't. The Yankees are a WS contending team, Ellsbury's career has been nothing but Big Market WS contender teams, to move to Milwaukee where logically does he fit, when coming from Boston/Yankee background?

[HighHeat19]

A trade with Cleveland would have to include Mejia or McKenzie.

 

You have only one more year of Salazar at a modest 5 mil. Who is coming off a so/so injured year. It makes no sense from the Brewer's perspective to give up much for a 1 year rental when your still rebuilding.

 

Kipnis is negative value for the Indians right now.He is north of 30. As I said before the Indians are extremely lefty heavy position player wise. Kipnis is a lefty. This would allow Cleveland to get another righty in their lineup at 2nd. Cleveland is also small market and Kipnis salary at $13 mil this year plus 14 mil next year is huge hindrance for Cleveland. And may cripple their chance of picking up a July 31st acquisition because of his salary. Also coming off an injured year and less than stellar production. If anything, Kipnis is more of a buy a good prospect for eating Kipnis contract type acquisition.

 

I'm sorry but both players do not equal to one of Domingo Santana. Mejia would be the choice to complete the deal. I would believe that the Indians would want to keep McKenzie at all costs as he would be a great trade chip to add that nice above average starter at the trade deadline. I don't believe Mejia would have the value that McKenzie does come July 31st.

 

Santana's righty bat and superior health history have to be high on Cleveland's target list. Edwin Encarnicion has also been highly injury prone the last few years (Back Spasms)(And one of the few righty's). EE goes down again and you can literally spot start Lefty's as well as schedule Lefty's against Cleveland and it's going to come back and bite cleveland something fierce. And Cleveland doesn't have the $ to bring in JD Martinez even without Kipnis contract. Santana has to be very enticing right now to Cleveland.

 

Long story short: Salazar, Kipnis and Mejia = Domingo Santana and free's up $ for Cleveland to pick up a trade deadline starter.

Can't get rid of Kipnis. Then Cleveland may have an injury risk at second and may not be able to afford that Verlander like the Astro's did last year. And be way too Lefty heavy in the lineup.

 

So Salazar, Kipnis and Mejia for Santana and a player like Grisham is very reasonable. Especially, because Brantley has been injury prone and up there in age for the Indians as well. Actually, Grisham seems to be a poor mans Michael Brantley.

 

My 2 cents.

[brewmann04]

guess we need to relax until tomorrow or Thursday it seems this is taking a while

[JosephC]

A trade with Cleveland would have to include Mejia or McKenzie.

 

You have only one more year of Salazar at a modest 5 mil. Who is coming off a so/so injured year. It makes no sense from the Brewer's perspective to give up much for a 1 year rental when your still rebuilding.

 

 

 

Salazar has 3 years of team control remaining. 3.162 service time and 2018 is his second arbitration year (was a super-two so has four arbitration years).

[CanOfCorn]

Salazar is Arb eligible in 2019 and not a Free Agent until 2021. We would have a solid #2 SP for 4 years of control and if Kipnis returns to 2016 form, he's a major upgrade at 2B but that's the risk we take.

 

Santana for Salazar, Meija and Kipnis would never float with the Indians. That's a massive haul for a guy who plays questionable defense in RF and not everyone is sold on. They would have to be getting someone else back via a 3rd team.

[StearnsFTW]

But if the Indians trade Kipnis and Ramirez plays second base, then they are forced to give Erik Gonzalez or Yandy Diaz the third base job and either of them would be a significant downgrade. Just not a realistic move for a team that is completely in win-now mode. Clearly they are not deep enough at infield to treat Kipnis as a "no value" player and dump his salary on another team, especially since he does have positive surplus value.

 

Now with Salazar on the other hand....Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer, Tomlin, Clevenger plus Ryan Merritt and Cody Anderson (should be back from Tommy John)...they have a solid starting five and two pretty decent insurance options. And there are the reports that the Indians are looking to deal Salazar because of the depth they have on the mound. So Salazar talk makes sense. Of all the trade stuff that has been discussed, Salazar probably makes more sense than anybody. But these expanded scenarios with Mejia and Kipnis aren't really worth discussing. To think that the Indians would trade Mejia in a deal where the big piece they are obtaining is Domingo Santana is not even close to being plausible, and Kipnis certainly is not going to be a "throw-in" as part of a larger trade.

 

Or they could simply sign Moustakas with the Kipnis money.

 

Edt: Also, Mejia is a pipe dream. Not happening.

[HighHeat19]

Salazar is Arb eligible in 2019 and not a Free Agent until 2021. We would have a solid #2 SP for 4 years of control and if Kipnis returns to 2016 form, he's a major upgrade at 2B but that's the risk we take.

 

Santana for Salazar, Meija and Kipnis would never float with the Indians. That's a massive haul for a guy who plays questionable defense in RF and not everyone is sold on. They would have to be getting someone else back via a 3rd team.

 

I was not aware of that. Sporttrac dod not mention that. Thanks for clearing that up.

[mattyo]

A trade with Cleveland would have to include Mejia or McKenzie.

 

You have only one more year of Salazar at a modest 5 mil. Who is coming off a so/so injured year. It makes no sense from the Brewer's perspective to give up much for a 1 year rental when your still rebuilding.

 

Kipnis is negative value for the Indians right now.He is north of 30. As I said before the Indians are extremely lefty heavy position player wise. Kipnis is a lefty. This would allow Cleveland to get another righty in their lineup at 2nd. Cleveland is also small market and Kipnis salary at $13 mil this year plus 14 mil next year is huge hindrance for Cleveland. And may cripple their chance of picking up a July 31st acquisition because of his salary. Also coming off an injured year and less than stellar production. If anything, Kipnis is more of a buy a good prospect for eating Kipnis contract type acquisition.

 

I'm sorry but both players do not equal to one of Domingo Santana. Mejia would be the choice to complete the deal. I would believe that the Indians would want to keep McKenzie at all costs as he would be a great trade chip to add that nice above average starter at the trade deadline. I don't believe Mejia would have the value that McKenzie does come July 31st.

 

Santana's righty bat and superior health history have to be high on Cleveland's target list. Edwin Encarnicion has also been highly injury prone the last few years (Back Spasms)(And one of the few righty's). EE goes down again and you can literally spot start Lefty's as well as schedule Lefty's against Cleveland and it's going to come back and bite cleveland something fierce. And Cleveland doesn't have the $ to bring in JD Martinez even without Kipnis contract. Santana has to be very enticing right now to Cleveland.

 

Long story short: Salazar, Kipnis and Mejia = Domingo Santana and free's up $ for Cleveland to pick up a trade deadline starter.

Can't get rid of Kipnis. Then Cleveland may have an injury risk at second and may not be able to afford that Verlander like the Astro's did last year. And be way too Lefty heavy in the lineup.

 

So Salazar, Kipnis and Mejia for Santana and a player like Grisham is very reasonable. Especially, because Brantley has been injury prone and up there in age for the Indians as well. Actually, Grisham seems to be a poor mans Michael Brantley.

 

My 2 cents.

 

If we are focused on getting Mejia along with Kipnis and Salazar, why not add one of our highly touted prospects not named Burnes or Brinson. What about selling high on Monte? I would absolutely add him if it got us over the hump for Mejia. OF will continue to be stacked and our catcher position is filled for the near future.