Milwaukee NHL Team

[Brew Crew Buster]

Actually as a Red Wings fan, this year, I could be converted

[stoutdude04]

Actually as a Red Wings fan, this year, I could be converted

 

Gross.

 

Only worse if you were a hawks fan.

[JackNicholson1974]

I would love to give me two cents here.

 

I fall on the trwi7 and paul253 side of things.

 

1) I do not believe Milwaukee will ever get an NHL franchise while I am alive (Im 40)

2) I do believe that Milwaukee and Wisconsin would support and NHL team and that it would be successful

3) The Milwaukee Metro area is NOT a hotbed for hockey, which is WHY I think it will work. Was Phoenix/Atlanta/Dallas/Raleigh hotbeds? Hell no. Having an NHL team CREATES the interest. We live in a cold weather climate and Wisconsin as a state is a pathetic hockey community - but look at Madison. It is a hockey hotbed BECAUSE of the Badgers.

4) Hockey is a wealthy person's sport - I read once that of the 4 major sports hockey fans had the highest income. That means that it is even more accessible by the Waukesha, Ozaukee, Washington County types that live in the area.

5) All it takes is one ownership group/rich person to make it happen. If the right person came along and wanted a team, we would have one. Billionaires do not grow on trees though. By the way, the NHL was all but coming here until Petit pulled the plug, it wasnt the other way around.

6) Families from Fond du Lac and Sheboygan all the way up HWY 41 and 43 to Green Bay and North would be coming down for games. As it sits, in Oshkosh, I either go to Badger hockey games or Green Bay Gambler games vs. Admirals. I have been to two Admirals games in my life. With an NHL team I would be there as many times a year as I would allow. Attendance would be just fine.

[Invader3K]

A point I've made in the past is that if people seriously want to even *try* to attract an NHL team here, someone needs to get serious, take the bull by the horns, and create a "Wisconsin NHL Fan Association" (or whatever name they'd choose).

 

Bud Selig formed an association several years before buying the Pilots. It was a big part of how he was able to put together an ownership group and bring MLB back to Milwaukee.

 

If someone isn't willing to get serious and start a group like that, NHL in Milwaukee will always continue to just be a theoretical pipe dream.

[stoutdude04]

A point I've made in the past is that if people seriously want to even *try* to attract an NHL team here, someone needs to get serious, take the bull by the horns, and create a "Wisconsin NHL Fan Association" (or whatever name they'd choose).

 

Bud Selig formed an association several years before buying the Pilots. It was a big part of how he was able to put together an ownership group and bring MLB back to Milwaukee.

 

If someone isn't willing to get serious and start a group like that, NHL in Milwaukee will always continue to just be a theoretical pipe dream.

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's what Petit did when he was interested in a Wisconsin team. So that would make sense.

[SRB]

Milwaukee could easily support an NHL team if it was managed properly. From things I've read in the past, while there is a direct correlation between market size and a professional sports team's revenue, the impact of market size is actually surprisingly small. Add to that the fact that the NHL has revenue sharing to increase competitive balance.

 

The #1 factor in getting an NHL franchise would be an aggressive ownership group who wanted to make it happen.

[paul253]

It would make too much sense for the current Bucks owners to own an NHL team. They have plenty of money between the three of them as all three of them are billionaires. They have a brand new arena that, even though the taxpayers paid for half, is essentially theirs. And they are trying to create some huge new entertainment district surrounding the arena. What better way to attract more people down there than to essentially double the number of professional sporting events there? Plus they could work with the Bucks vs a team having to work around the Bucks.

 

I really wonder if they had at least of though of looking into it since they made the arena hockey ready. Would they really do that just to try to get the Frozen Four once or twice a decade?

[danzig6767]

It would make too much sense for the current Bucks owners to own an NHL team. They have plenty of money between the three of them as all three of them are billionaires. They have a brand new arena that, even though the taxpayers paid for half, is essentially theirs. And they are trying to create some huge new entertainment district surrounding the arena. What better way to attract more people down there than to essentially double the number of professional sporting events there? Plus they could work with the Bucks vs a team having to work around the Bucks.

 

I really wonder if they had at least of though of looking into it since they made the arena hockey ready. Would they really do that just to try to get the Frozen Four once or twice a decade?

These Bucks owners bought an NBA team not just for an investment, they are also basketball fans. So it's their toy to tinker with.

 

I don't see anything to make me believe that they are also hockey guys. This matters.

 

The NHL is also a more risky financial en devour compared to the NBA which has big national and local TV contracts. If the Milwaukee market didn't warm up to an NHL team, these Bucks owners could lose lots of money and if they aren't highly interested in the sport, why take the financial risk?

 

Besides all of that, the Bucks are owned by multiple guys, not just one super rich owner. Getting each of them on board to try and buy an NHL team is a tougher sell. I don't see it happening even though i'd love it given i'm a big hockey fan.

[paul253]

Why wouldn’t anyone want to own a professional sports franchise? Have those things EVER lost value? Pay $500 million for an expansion team and in a 20 years the team will likely be worth twice that. Pettit balked at the expansion fee of $50 million in, was it ‘91? San Jose got a team instead. That team is now valued at $490 million, almost a 1000% increase (right? not so good at math). And that’s what it’s valued at. It would likely sell for much more.

[trwi7]

$500 million to get in the league (and it's rumored the Seattle franchise will cost over $600 million) and now you're maybe making money, maybe breaking even, maybe losing money for an undetermined number of years and now you want to sell to a buyer who either wants to move the team (could get more money) or keep the team in a small market (likely lowers the value) and the idea that you're making money off the sale becomes less certain.

[paul253]

Herb Kohl made it clear he wanted the new owners to keep the Bucks in Milwaukee. I don’t think that affected the price one bit.

 

Also, even if your franchise is losing money (and I’ve read that most don’t actually lose money, it’s more so fancy accounting tricks for tax purposes) the amount you’d make on the sale would likely wipe up any losses by a wide margin.

[trwi7]

Herb Kohl made it clear he wanted the new owners to keep the Bucks in Milwaukee. I don’t think that affected the price one bit.

 

Also, even if your franchise is losing money (and I’ve read that most don’t actually lose money, it’s more so fancy accounting tricks for tax purposes) the amount you’d make on the sale would likely wipe up any losses by a wide margin.

 

The NBA is not the NHL and it did affect the price.

 

That’s when, according to ESPN’s Brian Windhorst, sources told him that Ballmer and partner Chris Hansen made an offer in excess of $650 million to acquire the Milwaukee Bucks and move them to the Emerald City. However, longtime Bucks owner Herb Kohl rejected Ballmer and Hansen’s offer, choosing instead to sell the team to hedge fund billionaires Wesley Edens and Mark Lasry — who agreed to keep the team in Wisconsin — for $550 million.

 

http://blog.seattlepi.com/sonics/2014/05/30/report-steve-ballmer-chris-hansen-made-bid-to-move-milwaukee-bucks-to-seattle/

[paul253]

Well either way, as I said these things only increase in value and do so in massive amounts.

[trwi7]

Again, you're already starting $600 million in the hole. Now you potentially lose money for an undetermined amount of years. Say $1 million for 20 years. How much money do you think the team will sell for in 2040?

 

The last two teams to sell were the Islanders for $485 million in the largest market in the country and the Hurricanes just sold for $420 million as the only professional team in the market.

[JackNicholson1974]

Expansion isnt really an option, IMO, not with Seattle and QC out there. More likely relocation. Maybe Florida, Arizona, I am sure there are others. All it takes is one motivated billionaire.

[pacopete4]

Is there a relocation fee?

[paul253]

The last two teams to sell were the Islanders for $485 million in the largest market in the country and the Hurricanes just sold for $420 million as the only professional team in the market

 

Don’t have time to look up Carolina. The NY Islanders sold in 2014 for $485 million after years of losing money. Correct. Now as I said I don’t think it’s necessarily as straight forward as “losing money” since that can be partially offset by writing off the losses and other fancy accounting tricks. But either way. Yes he sold it for $485 million in 2014......after buying it for $130 million a mere fourteen years earlier. That’s a nice little profit wouldn’t you say?

[danzig6767]

You just aren't considering the interest in the sport factor when it comes to the Bucks current owners and when it comes to hockey.

 

They bought the Bucks as much because they were rich guys who loved basketball, so owning an NBA team was a dream of theirs. It wasn't just some financial decision. Same with Attanasio. He's talked often about his deep love for baseball and thus it was a dream to own an MLB team.

 

Sure, there probably are some pro sports owners who bought teams mainly just for financial reasons, but in most cases it is very wealthy guys who love a certain sport and when the opportunity came, they bought a team of the sport they loved.

 

Plus, while the Bucks owners are very rich by regular people standards, they aren't say Paul Allen rich who owns both an NBA and NFL team. Getting together the financing for the 600 million dollar fee isn't chump change, regardless of their wealth and not worth the financial risk for these guys who aren't into hockey.

 

They already own their dream sports franchise, which is also a safer sport given the huge TV deals in the NBA compared to hockey which is more locally driven revenue wise.

[paul253]

No I get it. I’m not talking about these guys specifically anymore. Just any billionaire investor who enjoys sports. How many investments are almost guaranteed to increase in value 300%-1000% in 20-30 years like sports franchises?

[danzig6767]

I question if the NHL would even want a team in Milwaukee. It's not just our small market size, but also the Bucks being here.

 

Having two sports which play together at roughly the same time could stretch the entertainment dollar here. And if i was the Bucks owners, i wouldn't want another pro team in the area which would siphon ticket money from my team to another one.

 

As it is, the Bucks will struggle to fill the new arena once the newness wears off if they don't win, but add an NHL team to the mix, it's inevitable that some of those casual sports fans will pick spending their money on hockey games instead of the Bucks.

 

Granted, the Bucks owners would be able to charge an NHL team for rent and likely tax ticket sales, but even with that i don't think they'd want the ticket buying competition, the media attention competition, and anyone trying to bring an NHL team here wouldn't want to get gouged by the arena the play in, especially given how hugely important ticket revenues are in a sport lacking major TV deals like the other three big pro sports have.

[owbc]

Having two sports which play together at roughly the same time could stretch the entertainment dollar here. And if i was the Bucks owners, i wouldn't want another pro team in the area which would siphon ticket money from my team to another one.

 

100% agreed. The interest of the Bucks would clearly be to block an NHL team and any NHL ownership group would need to build their own arena, likely without public funds. The Admirals were not even allowed to reach the bargaining table to play at the new arena.

 

Another Seattle parallel--the Mariners were quoted as NBA/NHL supporters but didn't want the arena near Safeco Field. Fair enough, but at the time the parcel near Safeco Field was the only location being considered and had already been purchased by the potential ownership group. Their efforts (in collaboration with the vehemently anti-arena Port of Seattle and its political influence) are a big reason why Seattle failed to produce an arena in time to expand with Vegas in 2017. At the time it was big news when Seattle failed to submit an NHL expansion application--but fortunately for Seattle the NHL decided it would rather wait than try to expand elsewhere. Eventually a different ownership group came along and solved another problem for the city by offering to fix the city-owned existing arena which was bleeding cash. The other group is still trying to build an NBA arena on their land near Safeco Field.

 

It's not clear what the NHL's interests will be after Seattle solves the conference alignment issue, but in general they seem to be against relocating existing teams (see the repeated attempts to solve the Coyotes' issues). The Carolina situation has stabilized and the Florida Panthers continue to collect free cash from the local government despite nobody going to the games.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/mariners/new-mariners-ceo-calls-potential-sodo-arena-big-ugly-house-right-at-the-end-of-your-driveway/

[liveforoctober]

The Milwaukee Pucks.

[trwi7]

Seattle just sold 25,000 season ticket deposits in one hour. In the words of Ilya Bryzgalov, that is humongous big.

 

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2018/03/01/nhl-seattle-season-ticket-drive-reaches-25k-sold-in-one-hour/

[owbc]

Our group got in 5 minutes after the start. Not sure what our priority number is yet but we're hoping to get the chance to buy all 41 games. I figured they would hit 10,000 today but the 25,000 number is just insane.