Milwaukee NHL Team

[trwi7]

Also, I don’t know that people in Waukesha and Ozaukee Counties are that interested in driving downtown in the winter.

 

What? The Admirals got 14,000+ during a winter storm on Valentine's Day 2016. How hard do you think it is to navigate downtown? I don't really know about Ozaukee County but if you're coming from the West you get off 94, hit a stoplight, make a left turn and are basically right there.

 

 

Milwaukee cannot support anymore sports teams. I think for a city with 1MM in the metropolitan area, we are cashed out. The admirals cannot get 5000 a night

 

First, you're really, really short changing how many people we have in the metro area. Milwaukee County alone is almost at 1 million. As far as the Admirals attendance, it was always in the top third of the AHL before the move and it has no correlation to NHL attendance.

 

San Jose Sharks average attendance - 17,333 (98.7% capacity)

San Jose Barracuda average attendance - 3,685 (21.0% capacity)

 

Winnipeg Jets average attendance - 15,321 (100% capacity)

Manitoba Moose average attendance - 5,470 (35.7% capacity)

[owbc]

This topic always comes up every couple years but the issue is beyond settled. It's never happening unless the Brewers or Bucks depart and it's especially not happening soon since they are about to bulldoze the arena that was built to support it.

 

Having separate NBA and NHL facilities seems to becoming a trend...the NBA group in Seattle is still moving ahead with its own privately-financed arena plans independent of the NHL group. Turns out billionaires don't like to share.

[LouisEly]

Tough question. Technically Riverside/ San Bernardino CA. But I count that as LA, so throwing that out. (Even though LA would never consider them part of LA.)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't look at the list. But yes, it is Riverside/San Bernadino.

 

As someone who lived in the LA area for seven years, LA is not Riverside/San Bernadino. It's faster to drive from Milwaukee to Chicago than from LA to Riverside. Particularly in afternoon/evening rush hour for a sporting event.

 

Austin is not much farther from San Antonio than Riverside is from LA (and can drive that faster too; Riverside to the Staples Center is about 60 miles, Austin to San Antonio is about 80 miles).

 

Pop quiz #2 - excluding Green Bay, what is the next smallest MSA with a pro sports team? (No peeking at a MSA list!)

[owbc]

Tough question. Technically Riverside/ San Bernardino CA. But I count that as LA, so throwing that out. (Even though LA would never consider them part of LA.)

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you didn't look at the list. But yes, it is Riverside/San Bernadino.

 

As someone who lived in the LA area for seven years, LA is not Riverside/San Bernadino. It's faster to drive from Milwaukee to Chicago than from LA to Riverside. Particularly in afternoon/evening rush hour for a sporting event.

 

Austin is not much farther from San Antonio than Riverside is from LA (and can drive that faster too; Riverside to the Staples Center is about 60 miles, Austin to San Antonio is about 80 miles).

 

Pop quiz #2 - excluding Green Bay, what is the next smallest MSA with a pro sports team? (No peeking at a MSA list!)

 

Memphis?

[paul253]

Milwaukee cannot support anymore sports teams. I think for a city with 1MM in the metropolitan area, we are cashed out. The admirals cannot get 5000 a night, how would one figure that Milwaukee could continue to get 12-14k a night for the bucks, 10k a night for MU, 30k a night for the brewers, and still have some support for the Wave, UWM, not to mention how many people in the area regularly attend events in GB and Madison.

 

Well agree to disagree. First of all the Admirals have averaged over 5,000 every year since 2004-2005. But I don’t think minor league attendance is indicative of how a professional team would draw. You’ll obviously have a lot more fans of a professional team because professional teams are much easier to follow and the quality of play is increased. If you look at the NBA how many people go to a Bucks game JUST to see Lebron or Curry? Or JUST go to see a specific team? That’ll happen with the NHL too.

 

But second, people need to understand that how big a city is doesn’t necessarily translate with attendance. Look at some of the teams I’m he bottom half of attendance. New York Islanders. Phoenix. Denver. Miami. San Jose. Look at some of the cities in the top half. Buffalo. Tampa. Minnesota. Calgary. Edmonton. Pittsburgh. Hell look at the Packers attendance. I think attendance is driven much more by interest in he team and success than the size of the city. If the team is good attendance will be good. If not it’ll probably look something like the Bucks.

 

Looking at the NHL I think it’s clear several teams need to be moved. Carolina is not even filling 70% of its arena. Arizona is way down there too. Those two franchises SHOULD be moved. Additionally the need to expand I believe to even out the conferences.

 

I hold out zero hope that Milwaukee will ever get a team. My one far out there theory is that maybe the new Bucks owners made the arena hockey ready with the idea of testing out attendance of an NHL exhibition game (like the Petits did) to gauge interest. I don’t see why they’d make the arena hockey ready just for the hope of landing a Frozen Four once or twice a decade. Maybe, just maybe, they’ll see the idea of an NHL franchise here as a solid investment and look to buy an existing franchise or grab an expansion spot. God knows they have enough money between them.

 

On a side note, anyone with access to the Milwaukee business journal that can sum up this article and tells us what it says in the topic of the NHL?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2017/11/16/feigin-no-bucks-plans-for-nhl-team-or-streetcar.amp.html

[trwi7]

Having separate NBA and NHL facilities seems to becoming a trend.

 

No it's not.

[LouisEly]

This topic always comes up every couple years but the issue is beyond settled. It's never happening unless the Brewers or Bucks depart and it's especially not happening soon since they are about to bulldoze the arena that was built to support it.

 

Having separate NBA and NHL facilities seems to becoming a trend...the NBA group in Seattle is still moving ahead with its own privately-financed arena plans independent of the NHL group. Turns out billionaires don't like to share.

It's not so much sharing as it is that a NHL rink is much bigger than a NBA floor. Yes, you can collapse sections/move seats, but those are the premium seats - if you are going to charge premiums for premium seats, they need to be premium seats and not benches or folding chairs. Either the hockey seats will be elevated up off the ice (no longer premium seats) or the basketball seats will be far from the court (no longer premium seats). Then there's the issues of condensation on the basketball floor that crop up every now and then. It's a good idea in theory, but does not maximize revenue or fan experience.

[LouisEly]

Pop quiz #2 - excluding Green Bay, what is the next smallest MSA with a pro sports team? (No peeking at a MSA list!)

 

Memphis?

There are three smaller than Memphis.

[owbc]

This topic always comes up every couple years but the issue is beyond settled. It's never happening unless the Brewers or Bucks depart and it's especially not happening soon since they are about to bulldoze the arena that was built to support it.

 

Having separate NBA and NHL facilities seems to becoming a trend...the NBA group in Seattle is still moving ahead with its own privately-financed arena plans independent of the NHL group. Turns out billionaires don't like to share.

 

It's not so much sharing as it is that a NHL rink is much bigger than a NBA floor. Yes, you can collapse sections/move seats, but those are the premium seats - if you are going to charge premiums for premium seats, they need to be premium seats and not benches or folding chairs. Either the hockey seats will be elevated up off the ice (no longer premium seats) or the basketball seats will be far from the court (no longer premium seats). Then there's the issues of condensation on the basketball floor that crop up every now and then. It's a good idea in theory, but does not maximize revenue or fan experience.

 

Yes, these are good reasons why I think separate NHL-NBA arenas are becoming a trend. The two newest shared facilities have both been disasters (Brooklyn--hockey team in basketball arena, Detroit--basketball team in hockey arena).

[trwi7]

The two newest shared facilities have both been disasters (Brooklyn--hockey team in basketball arena, Detroit--basketball team in hockey arena).

 

First, how has the Pistons move been a disaster? Second, the Pistons moved to a hockey arena from a hockey arena.

[NeedMoreFans]

Turns out billionaires don't like to share.

 

This is precisely why the Admirals are not playing at the new arena. I have a friend in the Admirals front office and he told me the Bucks take a certain percentage of the concessions and merchandise sales at Admiral games and Admiral ownership (which Mark A has a stake in) wanted to negotiate the terms for the new arena. Owners were to meet, but Bucks ownership never showed up to the meeting so the Admirals pretty much immediately decided they'd go to the UWM arena. West coast and east coast money don't get along too well, apparently.

 

Also, I believe the Blackhawks could have blocked a relocation of a franchise to Milwaukee which made the Petits seek an expansion team.

[paul253]

Quite honestly the Admirals are better off at the Cell. No point in playing in an arena that’s 2/3 empty. The US Cellular arena is perfect for them.

 

Regarding this whole “territorial rights” in he NHL. What a load of crap that is to me. Why do teams have “rights” over other large cities? Every sport Milwaukee has a team in (MLB, NBA, AHL, major CBB) Chicago has a team. If both cities can have teams in all those other sports and both still draw well enough why is the NHL any different. Chicago wouldn’t be affected one bit by Milwaukee getting a team. Heck it might even help them by giving them a close rival.

[NeedMoreFans]

Here's a really great story about how Pettit sought a team and why it never came to fruition...

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-02-02/sports/sp-18102_1_expansion-team

[pacopete4]

Is the Bradley Center that far gone where it couldn’t of been repurposed and used as an NHL rink?

[DHonks]

Milwaukee and SE Wisconsin just aren’t hockey hotbeds. My high school was decent and other districts had co-op teams, but there just wasn’t much interest. It’s funny, because most of the high schools in AZ in my area have club hockey, and I’ve encountered lots of people that play in rec leagues. I enjoy going to games though, especially in Vegas

[Baldkin]

Is the Bradley Center that far gone where it couldn’t of been repurposed and used as an NHL rink?

 

Have you been there?

 

Yes, it was ancient the day it was finished being built, 30 years ago. The ratios of seats are wrong (way more uppers than lowers) and every single thing about it is outdated.

 

It would need ~200M in upkeep just to stay up to code in the coming years -- things like heating, wiring and plubming, let alone the cost to modernize things like ribbon boards, scoreboards and concessions (which are an absolute disaster at the current BC).

[JohnBriggs12]

Milwaukee and SE Wisconsin just aren’t hockey hotbeds. My high school was decent and other districts had co-op teams, but there just wasn’t much interest. It’s funny, because most of the high schools in AZ in my area have club hockey, and I’ve encountered lots of people that play in rec leagues. I enjoy going to games though, especially in Vegas

 

I'm in the Chicago area. The vast majority of Blackhawk fans never played hockey. Many never put on a pair of skates. Nashville might have most rabid fan base of any team in the NHL How many of their fans have any connection to playing hockey? Granted the Predators are the "only game in town" as far as major league sports, but I think Milwaukee which is a great sports town would support NHL hockey.

[pacopete4]

Is the Bradley Center that far gone where it couldn’t of been repurposed and used as an NHL rink?

 

Have you been there?

 

Yes, it was ancient the day it was finished being built, 30 years ago. The ratios of seats are wrong (way more uppers than lowers) and every single thing about it is outdated.

 

It would need ~200M in upkeep just to stay up to code in the coming years -- things like heating, wiring and plubming, let alone the cost to modernize things like ribbon boards, scoreboards and concessions (which are an absolute disaster at the current BC).

 

No I’ve never been. Thanks for explaining. Can see why a new arena was needed.

[trwi7]

The Bradley Center isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Is it great? No. But it's not some ******** for lack of a better word.

[homer]

It's always been kind of cold and cavernous and it's not the best design for basketball, but structurally it's fine.

[Baldkin]

The Bradley Center isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Is it great? No. But it's not some ******** for lack of a better word.

 

Compare it to the Kohl Center which was designed 6 years after the BC was built. It's night and day.

[patrickgpe]

Well agree to disagree. First of all the Admirals have averaged over 5,000 every year since 2004-2005. But I don’t think minor league attendance is indicative of how a professional team would draw. You’ll obviously have a lot more fans of a professional team because professional teams are much easier to follow and the quality of play is increased. If you look at the NBA how many people go to a Bucks game JUST to see Lebron or Curry? Or JUST go to see a specific team? That’ll happen with the NHL too.

 

 

my bigger point was that every family has only so much money to spend on sporting events. Yes there are hockey fans in the region that will go to more games because its the NHL and not the AHL. I think the typical fan like myself only does have a certain amount of money I can spend on entertainment. For every NHL game I would attend its one less MU, Brewers, or Bucks game. Milwaukee needs to focus on supporting what we have rather than add another team to the mix.

[homer]

I don't think there are enough corporate dollars around to support another pro team. I think in game attendance would be fine.

[Jenkins5]

With Seattle apparently getting a new NHL team, it got me to wonder why Milwaukee doesn't have an NHL team. While I am not a huge NHL fan, I think this would change if Milwaukee were to get one. I know the Admirals are there but am unfamiliar if they draw well. With me not living in Wisconsin, I am curious as to why there isn't a team in Milwaukee. It seems that the sport would thrive there.

 

Any thoughts?

 

It's my understanding that the Blackhawks have territorial rights that include Milwaukee and that they would have to waive them to allow a team in Milwaukee. I believe old man Wirtz blocked Lloyd Pettit back when Bradley Center was built from applying for an expansion franchise. Maybe someone can confirm that.

 

This essentially. Blackhawks would need to waive rights. Other issue is Wild & Red Wings. NHL hasn’t felt Wisconsin is great fit being centralized between the 3 now. All three teams have strong presence in Wisconsin for fan bases. 1) you need to convert those fans & then bring in new fans. 2) hurts the markets of the three teams. You aren’t converting Red Wings & Blackhawk fans.... those are lifers. Wild are new enough to steal from. Overall, you are putting a lot of faith that creating a team here will bring a lot more fans to the NHL that can create a sustainable franchise.

[paul253]

I think that argument is overrated. I’m sorry but Milwaukee is not filled with Blackhawks and Wild fans. I believe Milwaukee is now “Wild territory”, at least I assume it is since we get their games on regional TV. Which is funny because St Paul is like six hours away. We may as well be St Louis Blues territory. Chicago and MN would not lose fans if Milwaukee got a team and if that’s the argument preventing it then something is seriously wrong wit the NHL.

 

A team in Milwaukee would fit right in the Central Division, which just happens to be the only division with seven teams. I honestly think if someone in Milwaukee showed serious interest we’d be a shoe in. New arena. Great hockey tradition. Perfect location which requires no realignment.