Sign Moustakas, Trade Travis Shaw?

[KeithStone53151]

For what it's worth, the brewers beat writers have generally been pessimistic about us making a big free agent signing. I have to assume they know more than we do, maybe getting off the record comments. They both also suspect hader is headed for the bullpen, which would be very disappointing in my opinion.

[wallus]

It almost seems like Stearns contacted every single agent to see if their clients would consider playing in Milwaukee. If we have learned anything over the years it is that not every player wants to play for the Brewers. I am guessing some of the free agents would want quite the premium to sign with us. He is looking at who would be willing and trying to create some value with the payroll flexibility we have. I really like the idea of that.

[wallus]

Also, I would much rather trade Thames and move Shaw/Moustakas to first base. I think the offense is a little overrated personally.

[brewcrewdue80]

Wouldn't this be an obvious Archer from TB idea? They have no financial room to sign the Moose, so acquire that same talent in trading Archer. Tampa has the onslaught of OFs that the Brewers have to offer, so at 3b why not? Having traded away Longoria. The Choi signing may also come with the notion on maybe trading away Thames or Aguilar in that deal?

[bill hAll Star]

Wouldn't this be an obvious Archer from TB idea? They have no financial room to sign the Moose, so acquire that same talent in trading Archer. Tampa has the onslaught of OFs that the Brewers have to offer, so at 3b why not? Having traded away Longoria. The Choi signing may also come with the notion on maybe trading away Thames or Aguilar in that deal?

 

I'm not sure if I follow this, but if the Rays trade Archer, even if they have some decent young players, I don't see them buying a prime veteran in return...they're going into the tank if they deal Archer.

[KeithStone53151]

Wouldn't this be an obvious Archer from TB idea? They have no financial room to sign the Moose, so acquire that same talent in trading Archer. Tampa has the onslaught of OFs that the Brewers have to offer, so at 3b why not? Having traded away Longoria. The Choi signing may also come with the notion on maybe trading away Thames or Aguilar in that deal?

 

I'm not sure if I follow this, but if the Rays trade Archer, even if they have some decent young players, I don't see them buying a prime veteran in return...they're going into the tank if they deal Archer.

 

I tend to disagree with this. They have a couple good pitching prospects coming up and a fairly full rotation. They have more issues with run scoring than run prevention. Maybe they do intend to rebuild instead of re-tool, but I wouldn't fully discount shaw to TB as a possibility.

[bill hAll Star]

Wouldn't this be an obvious Archer from TB idea? They have no financial room to sign the Moose, so acquire that same talent in trading Archer. Tampa has the onslaught of OFs that the Brewers have to offer, so at 3b why not? Having traded away Longoria. The Choi signing may also come with the notion on maybe trading away Thames or Aguilar in that deal?

 

I'm not sure if I follow this, but if the Rays trade Archer, even if they have some decent young players, I don't see them buying a prime veteran in return...they're going into the tank if they deal Archer.

 

I tend to disagree with this. They have a couple good pitching prospects coming up and a fairly full rotation. They have more issues with run scoring than run prevention. Maybe they do intend to rebuild instead of re-tool, but I wouldn't fully discount shaw to TB as a possibility.

 

The premise of it is that they don't have the money to sign Moustakas. They just dealt Longoria away and they wouldn't be able to theoretically sign 3-years-younger Moustakas to basically the same deal?

 

That original premise does not have to be true, but in that absolutely top-heavy division I'm not sure I'd be trotting out a bunch of guys with innings caps in my rotation, some solid hitting/stud defensive outfielders, Shaw, and a bunch of light-hitting infielders to try to win that division. They have probably about an 80 win team even with Shaw. They won 80 last year after buying at the trade deadline, with Longoria, and with Archer. So replace Archer with some of their young arms and throw Shaw into the mix (no career-year Morrison) and they're really going to compete?

[brewcrewdue80]

Wouldn't this be an obvious Archer from TB idea? They have no financial room to sign the Moose, so acquire that same talent in trading Archer. Tampa has the onslaught of OFs that the Brewers have to offer, so at 3b why not? Having traded away Longoria. The Choi signing may also come with the notion on maybe trading away Thames or Aguilar in that deal?

 

I'm not sure if I follow this, but if the Rays trade Archer, even if they have some decent young players, I don't see them buying a prime veteran in return...they're going into the tank if they deal Archer.

 

No way, you are selling the rotation short. Odorizzi and Snell with Honeywell to come at any moment. Add Jose De Leon with Andriese as a #5 by the middle of season with the offense you're are putting on the team adding the 3b/1b combo. It won't be a finished product for the '18 season but Thames/Aguilar and Shaw have control multiple seasons beyond that, when Snell/Honeywell and De Leon could be taking off as SPs in '19.

[MrTPlush]

For what it's worth, the brewers beat writers have generally been pessimistic about us making a big free agent signing. I have to assume they know more than we do, maybe getting off the record comments. They both also suspect hader is headed for the bullpen, which would be very disappointing in my opinion.

 

No offense to our beat writers, but they kind of suck when it comes to rumors etc. Rumors/Big news always comes from the other teams local writers or a Rosenthal type.

[KeithStone53151]

For what it's worth, the brewers beat writers have generally been pessimistic about us making a big free agent signing. I have to assume they know more than we do, maybe getting off the record comments. They both also suspect hader is headed for the bullpen, which would be very disappointing in my opinion.

 

No offense to our beat writers, but they kind of suck when it comes to rumors etc. Rumors/Big news always comes from the other teams local writers or a Rosenthal type.

 

That's absolutely true that the national guys tend to break news on executed or just about to be executed trades/FA signings. I personally think our beat writers do have a good sense on general strategy of the front office. It's part of why I'm softening on my "Hader will start" and going with more of a "Hader should start".

 

You can disagree if you want, the beat writers absolutely could be wrong...or maybe they are right, but a perfect storm of potential moves lines up for Stearns and he pulls the trigger...or maybe just the small obvious moves happen.

 

I hope Stearns doesn't get too carried away in trying to be creative. These other GM's are sharp guys, it isn't like there are 29 Dombrowski's to take advantage of.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

For what it's worth, the brewers beat writers have generally been pessimistic about us making a big free agent signing. I have to assume they know more than we do, maybe getting off the record comments. They both also suspect hader is headed for the bullpen, which would be very disappointing in my opinion.

 

No offense to our beat writers, but they kind of suck when it comes to rumors etc. Rumors/Big news always comes from the other teams local writers or a Rosenthal type.

 

That's absolutely true that the national guys tend to break news on executed or just about to be executed trades/FA signings. I personally think our beat writers do have a good sense on general strategy of the front office. It's part of why I'm softening on my "Hader will start" and going with more of a "Hader should start".

 

You can disagree if you want, the beat writers absolutely could be wrong...or maybe they are right, but a perfect storm of potential moves lines up for Stearns and he pulls the trigger...or maybe just the small obvious moves happen.

 

I hope Stearns doesn't get too carried away in trying to be creative. These other GM's are sharp guys, it isn't like there are 29 Dombrowski's to take advantage of.

 

When presented Bowden's rumor this morning, Haudricourt basically laughed it off. McCalvy at least took it as an outside possibility. Roziak is covering UWM basketball, so he's not going to be any help.

[Eye Black]

When presented Bowden's rumor this morning, Haudricourt basically laughed it off. McCalvy at least took it as an outside possibility. Roziak is covering UWM basketball, so he's not going to be any help.

When presented with it at first it appeared that Haudricourt thought it was some random Twitter user throwing the idea at him, there was no reference to Jim Bowden. My perception was Haudricourt initially responded as a hey, look at this ridiculous thing this person just said to me type of response. He seemingly took it more seriously upon learning it was an actual report, stating:

 

“What I have learned about Stearns and Co is that they "check in" on nearly every available player, just to make sure they know cost. Very big on due diligence. Doesn't mean it will hapoen.”

 

My initial internal reaction to that was something along the lines of, well why don’t you “check in” with your team sources to see if there is any truth to the rumor?... but then decided to keep that thought to myself.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

When presented Bowden's rumor this morning, Haudricourt basically laughed it off. McCalvy at least took it as an outside possibility. Roziak is covering UWM basketball, so he's not going to be any help.

When presented with it at first it appeared that Haudricourt thought it was some random Twitter user throwing the idea at him, there was no reference to Jim Bowden. My perception was Haudricourt initially responded as a hey, look at this ridiculous thing this person just said to me type of response. He seemingly took it more seriously upon learning it was an actual report, stating:

 

“What I have learned about Stearns and Co is that they "check in" on nearly every available player, just to make sure they know cost. Very big on due diligence. Doesn't mean it will hapoen.”

 

My initial internal reaction to that was something along the lines of, well why don’t you “check in” with your team sources to see if there is any truth to the rumor?... but then decided to keep that thought to myself.

 

That is pretty much the definition in the difference between the resources devoted to Packers coverage by Gannett compared to the Brewers. Among Gannett's army of Packer reporters is one guy (Aaron Nagler) who's only job is basically to search out Packers coverage from national sources every morning, then retweet it. I've found the Packers beat guys to pretty much be on top of most every breaking story, or close behind. But with Brewer coverage, with only Haudricourt, 1/2 time Roziak and McCalvy on the MLB side, coverage is spotty, especially this time of year. And Stearns seems much more willing to speak with media types than Ted Thompson ever was.

[MNBrew]

I think this is being reported widely enough that these types of moves might actually happen....

While I'm interested in the Lorenzo Cain thing, regarding Moustakas & possibly Shaw, as far as we know, Jim Bowden is the only guy who reported anything. Others picked up on it and started talking.

 

Jim Bowden loves player movement. To be more specific, Jim Bowden talks constantly that teams who happen to be .500-ish or under, or who are in small markets, or who are (or should be) rebuilding, should do nothing other than trade good players to large market or good teams. Personally, I can't stand Jim Bowden.

 

For a team at the stage in the rebuilding process that the Brewers are, signing Mike Moustakas and trading Travis Shaw makes zero sense. Such a move would add huge and needless cost for a player who's older, not necessarily any better and actually probably a little worse, and too similar of a hitter to way too much of the rest of the current roster. Shaw may not be the same defensive caliber player as Moustakas, but he was still one of the better fielders on the Brewers last year.

 

Again, per Haudricourt on Twitter this a.m. (boldfacing is mine):

 

What I have learned about Stearns and Co is that they "check in" on nearly every available player, just to make sure they know cost. Very big on due diligence. Doesn't mean it will happen.

 

All Bowden said is that the Brewers "checked in" on Moustakas. The "2+2" he puts together is pure Bowden-like (annoying) conjecture.

[KeithStone53151]

I think this is being reported widely enough that these types of moves might actually happen....

As far as we know, Jim Bowden is the only guy who reported anything. Others picked up on it and started talking.

 

Jim Bowden loves player movement. To be more specific, Jim Bowden talks constantly that teams who happen to be .500-ish or under, or who are in small markets, or who are (or should be) rebuilding, should do nothing other than trade good players to large market or good teams. Personally, I can't stand Jim Bowden.

 

For a team at the stage in the rebuilding process that the Brewers are, signing Mike Moustakas and trading Travis Shaw makes zero sense. Such a move would add huge and needless cost for a player who's older, not necessarily any better and actually probably a little worse, and too similar of a hitter to way too much of the rest of the current roster.

 

Again, per Haudricourt on Twitter this a.m. (boldfacing is mine):

 

What I have learned about Stearns and Co is that they "check in" on nearly every available player, just to make sure they know cost. Very big on due diligence. Doesn't mean it will happen.

 

All Bowden said is that the Brewers "checked in" on Moustakas. The "2+2" he puts together is pure Bowden-like (annoying) conjecture.

 

I'll agree that Bowden is the only guy making these connections on Shaw, but more people have connected us to Cain. Generally speaking I wonder if we might make a move to add salary and trade a vet for prospects. I still think it's unlikely, I expect us to move Broxton and one of Perez/Aguilar and that's about it.

[MNBrew]

Cain's the type of hitter the Brewers could use. Moustakas is redundant and a step away from diversifying the offense. The offense was decent overall in 2017 but too power-reliant and therefore slump-prone.

[jerichoholicninja]

Boras being Boras. No story here.

[Devinep]

Very Boras story since there likelybisnt much interest in a 3B getting into his 30’s who can’t get on base.

 

And I saw a couple times where posters said it would be a good idea to trade Thames after getting Mouse m:

1- the team need more OBP, not less

2- it isn’t a great market to trade a LHB 1B

[Eye Black]

I think this is being reported widely enough that these types of moves might actually happen. I guess I don't mind exploring this type of move, but I don't have a lot of optimism that it's going to work out how we want at any position. This is a bit of a unique offseason in that so many big market clubs aren't willing to spend, but I just don't see us getting the talent I think we'd need to get in order for a set of coordinated moves to make sense.

 

With the Yankees, I wonder if we could also take on a bad contract to get better prospects in a Shaw trade. Not Ellsbury obviously, but maybe Gardner as the 4th outfielder if he can move enough other outfielders? Though I've gotten the impression from prior trades that the Yankees either rip off a team in a trade or don't trade at all(I suspect that's why they didn't get Cole), so I'm even less optimistic about making something work with them even if it makes all the sense in the world on paper.

It seems like the Yankees are very much interested in adding Yu Darvish while also remaining under the luxury tax. The Brewers have plenty of room to take on a bad contract and the Yankees have plenty of good prospects to make it worth their time. Couple both the opportunity for the Yankees to add a good LH hitting 3B with power at a very low cost with the opportunity to also gain additional salary relief, and I would expect the Brewers to get a very nice return. If Cashman is trying to recreate the ‘27 Yankees than this might be a good time for the Brewers to strike a deal.

[tmwiese55]

Very Boras story since there likelybisnt much interest in a 3B getting into his 30’s who can’t get on base.

 

And I saw a couple times where posters said it would be a good idea to trade Thames after getting Mouse m:

1- the team need more OBP, not less

2- it isn’t a great market to trade a LHB 1B

 

Well the logic is simply you'd rather keep Shaw than Thames if you had to choose. Both are descent OBP guys and Shaw is just a better hitter. What you're saying is more to why we just shouldn't sign Moustakas to begin with. But yes of course you'd get more back for Shaw

[wallus]

Very Boras story since there likelybisnt much interest in a 3B getting into his 30’s who can’t get on base.

 

And I saw a couple times where posters said it would be a good idea to trade Thames after getting Mouse m:

1- the team need more OBP, not less

2- it isn’t a great market to trade a LHB 1B

 

Not saying I would want to do it but Thames graded out poorly defensively at 1B and either Shaw or Moose would very likely be an upgrade there.

[NievesNoNO]

I think this is being reported widely enough that these types of moves might actually happen. I guess I don't mind exploring this type of move, but I don't have a lot of optimism that it's going to work out how we want at any position. This is a bit of a unique offseason in that so many big market clubs aren't willing to spend, but I just don't see us getting the talent I think we'd need to get in order for a set of coordinated moves to make sense.

 

With the Yankees, I wonder if we could also take on a bad contract to get better prospects in a Shaw trade. Not Ellsbury obviously, but maybe Gardner as the 4th outfielder if he can move enough other outfielders? Though I've gotten the impression from prior trades that the Yankees either rip off a team in a trade or don't trade at all(I suspect that's why they didn't get Cole), so I'm even less optimistic about making something work with them even if it makes all the sense in the world on paper.

It seems like the Yankees are very much interested in adding Yu Darvish while also remaining under the luxury tax. The Brewers have plenty of room to take on a bad contract and the Yankees have plenty of good prospects to make it worth their time. Couple both the opportunity for the Yankees to add a good LH hitting 3B with power at a very low cost with the opportunity to also gain additional salary relief, and I would expect the Brewers to get a very nice return. If Cashman is trying to recreate the ‘27 Yankees than this might be a good time for the Brewers to strike a deal.

 

I respect the fact that obviously the Brewers front office is prepared, however remote something like a Shaw trade would be. I really don't have an idea on what Shaw could return but I'd have to be overwhelmed to start the conversation. If we were dealing with the Yankees what would you think is fair coming back. Would it have to include Torres? Montgomery and Adams?

[brwrsfan]

Very Boras story since there likelybisnt much interest in a 3B getting into his 30’s who can’t get on base.

 

And I saw a couple times where posters said it would be a good idea to trade Thames after getting Mouse m:

1- the team need more OBP, not less

2- it isn’t a great market to trade a LHB 1B

 

Not saying I would want to do it but Thames graded out poorly defensively at 1B and either Shaw or Moose would very likely be an upgrade there.

 

Exactly my point as well. I don't think they should do it. But why move Shaw? I think he'd be just fine at 1b and IMO an overall better hitter in general.

 

That said...just don't sign Moustakas.

[KeithStone53151]

I respect the fact that obviously the Brewers front office is prepared, however remote something like a Shaw trade would be. I really don't have an idea on what Shaw could return but I'd have to be overwhelmed to start the conversation. If we were dealing with the Yankees what would you think is fair coming back. Would it have to include Torres? Montgomery and Adams?

 

No way are the Yankees trading Torres. Zero chance. Maybe Adams, but I don't think I'd give him up if I were the Yankees. I'd probably try to push Sheffield on us along with another good piece or two. That's probably not worth Shaw though.

[Eye Black]

I think this is being reported widely enough that these types of moves might actually happen. I guess I don't mind exploring this type of move, but I don't have a lot of optimism that it's going to work out how we want at any position. This is a bit of a unique offseason in that so many big market clubs aren't willing to spend, but I just don't see us getting the talent I think we'd need to get in order for a set of coordinated moves to make sense.

 

With the Yankees, I wonder if we could also take on a bad contract to get better prospects in a Shaw trade. Not Ellsbury obviously, but maybe Gardner as the 4th outfielder if he can move enough other outfielders? Though I've gotten the impression from prior trades that the Yankees either rip off a team in a trade or don't trade at all(I suspect that's why they didn't get Cole), so I'm even less optimistic about making something work with them even if it makes all the sense in the world on paper.

It seems like the Yankees are very much interested in adding Yu Darvish while also remaining under the luxury tax. The Brewers have plenty of room to take on a bad contract and the Yankees have plenty of good prospects to make it worth their time. Couple both the opportunity for the Yankees to add a good LH hitting 3B with power at a very low cost with the opportunity to also gain additional salary relief, and I would expect the Brewers to get a very nice return. If Cashman is trying to recreate the ‘27 Yankees than this might be a good time for the Brewers to strike a deal.

 

I respect the fact that obviously the Brewers front office is prepared, however remote something like a Shaw trade would be. I really don't have an idea on what Shaw could return but I'd have to be overwhelmed to start the conversation. If we were dealing with the Yankees what would you think is fair coming back. Would it have to include Torres? Montgomery and Adams?

That is a good question. One potential hiccup could be that while the Yankees may be willing to part with players like Frazier or Florial, that isn’t something the Brewers would likely be looking for in a return. In addition to the guys you mentioned I could also see the Brewers having interest in Justus Sheffield. Getting back Miguel Andujar could also serve as a solution to fill 3B in the near future. I guess the more I think about giving up 4 years of Travis Shaw, you would really need to get back at least one player you thought could be a true future difference maker, which leads back to either Torres or Adams. If we are being honest, Torres probably isn’t realistic. Still Adams, Andujar, and 1-2 more players could be a nice return.