Gerrit Cole Trade to Astros, Take Two (for Musgrove, Feliz, Moran, Martin)

[Eye Black]

Link: Jon Morosi is reporting a Gerrit Cole trade to the Astros is imminent.

 

EDIT: Updated the subject because Morosi is reporting the Astros and Pirates have reached an agreement.

 

EDIT #2: Updated the subject again because now it is being reported by Jeff Passan, Jerry Crasnick, and the Astros beat reports as not done, and maybe not even close.

[Warning Track Power]

That team in 2018 will be insane. Keuchel-Verlander-Cole-McCullers with that everyday lineup. Wow!

[Eye Black]

Rosenthal reporting that he also confirmed the deal is close.

 

I know moving Cole was likely, but it seems like it also signals that the Pirates are ready to take a step back from trying to compete in the near term. I would guess that McCutchen will be moved soon as well.

[tmwiese55]

Well helps us in the battle for 2nd and 3rd place. Great move by Hous. Obviously makes them better, but also prevents him from going to NYY which would have helped sure up their biggest weakness area in starting pitching. So it hurts one of their biggest rivals too. Of course the Yankees offense looks ridiculous, bullpen looks great, but their SP is just not impressive.

[MadThinker88]

Rosenthal reporting that he also confirmed the deal is close.

 

I know moving Cole was likely, but it seems like it also signals that the Pirates are ready to take a step back from trying to compete in the near term. I would guess that McCutchen will be moved soon as well.

 

I can see it now: McCutchen to Cleveland for Salazar & Chisenhall...

[Eye Black]

Rosenthal reporting that he also confirmed the deal is close.

 

I know moving Cole was likely, but it seems like it also signals that the Pirates are ready to take a step back from trying to compete in the near term. I would guess that McCutchen will be moved soon as well.

 

I can see it now: McCutchen to Cleveland for Salazar & Chisenhall...

Isn't that the exact "poetic justice" you were hoping for on another forum?

[monty57]

From MLBtraderumors:

 

12:04pm: A source tells Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports (Twitter link) that the rumored deal is simply a “false rumor.” It seems, then, there’s no reason at this time to believe a deal between these organizations is particularly likely to occur.

[monty57]

If this does happen, it makes a lot of sense for both teams. The Astros will strengthen their bid for another title, and the Pirates will get a ton back in terms of prospects.

 

I like that Stearns came from the Astros and helped build that franchise. I want to get to the point that the Brewers are one of the better MLB teams while still having such a strong, deep farm that they can deal prospects for stars and still have a top system.

[Eye Black]

Game on! Gerrit Cole traded to the Astros for RHP Joe Musgrove, RHP Michael Feliz, 3B Colin Moran, OF Jason Martin. MLB Trade Rumors Article Link.

[ebmackenzie]

What would have been the comparable Brewer package to send to PIT to get GCole? Annnd why wasn't it sent?

[Eye Black]

Another random thought, it takes the Astros out of the running for Darvish and likely eliminates them as a potential suitor in the rest of the free agent starting pitching market. Hopefully it helps get things closer towards some FA movement.

[stoutdude04]

What would have been the comparable Brewer package to send to PIT to get GCole? Annnd why wasn't it sent?

 

It's possible they didn't want to trade him within the division. If there are two comparable offers would you take the one where it's a team you'll play often or the other?

[adambr2]

In terms of value for value, something like Woodruff, Barnes, Isan Diaz, and Larry Ernesto would have been a package at least in the ballpark of similar.

 

Doesn't mean they would have taken it as stout pointed out.

[RockCoCougars]

I would have given up a LOT more than that. In my view, Cole is better than any of the FA out there. Have to assume that the Pirates didn't want to trade within the division.

[MadThinker88]

I would have given up a LOT more than that. In my view, Cole is better than any of the FA out there. Have to assume that the Pirates didn't want to trade within the division.

 

Not talking trade within division is entirely possible. While Houston might be removing itself from efforts to get Darvish/ others, it also means 1 more front line starter is off the market and any team that was a runner up on Cole (ie Yankees) will be re-doubling efforts on others still out there.

 

On another note consider this: if Cole (with 2 years of team control) netted this package of 4 players, how much more would Chris Archer (and 4 years of control) cost.

[NOMAAM]

I would have given up a LOT more than that. In my view, Cole is better than any of the FA out there. Have to assume that the Pirates didn't want to trade within the division.

Agreed, Musgrove and Moran are the only ones with upside imo. The package looks light to me. If Frazier was involved with the Yankee deal I can't see how it wasn't a better value.

[Eye Black]

Looking at it from the Pirates end, it does seem to be more along the lines of quantity than quality. It seems unlikely any of these players has future All Star upside. I guess they did get players they can stick on their major league roster immediately. I would be very curious to know what other offers might have been out there.

[trwi7]

Huntington talking about the trade getting pieces that can help now. That's just an awful way to run your team.

[NOMAAM]

Huntington talking about the trade getting pieces that can help now. That's just an awful way to run your team.

 

Help them to finish a bit closer to .500 now I guess.

[jerichoholicninja]

Only two years of control for Cole and he's only had one really, really good year. I'd have passed on trading for him. He's been built up as this ace, top 10 pitcher but I don't know why. I'd rather give up the years and money to Darvish or Lynn.

 

As for what the Pirates are getting, I don't see any superstars but a bunch of solid guys that will fill holes. Moran will be their 3B, and Feliz and Musgrove will fill bullpen and maybe eventually rotation spots. Not a sexy return but I don't think all that much of Cole and his value.

[Thurston Fluff]

What would have been the comparable Brewer package to send to PIT to get GCole? Annnd why wasn't it sent?

 

It's possible they didn't want to trade him within the division. If there are two comparable offers would you take the one where it's a team you'll play often or the other?

 

While that is the conventional wisdom, I just don't think it matters as much as some do. When you trade a player at the start of a rebuild does it really matter if you help a team in your division for the short term? You aren't winning anyway so what does it matter? In a way it is better to trade within the division when starting a rebuild. That way you weaken a division rival's farm which should make them worse in a few years when you are ready to compete. I think the whole don't trade in your division thing is overblown in general but even more so at the start of a rebuild.

[stoutdude04]

What would have been the comparable Brewer package to send to PIT to get GCole? Annnd why wasn't it sent?

 

It's possible they didn't want to trade him within the division. If there are two comparable offers would you take the one where it's a team you'll play often or the other?

 

While that is the conventional wisdom, I just don't think it matters as much as some do. When you trade a player at the start of a rebuild does it really matter if you help a team in your division for the short term? You aren't winning anyway so what does it matter? In a way it is better to trade within the division when starting a rebuild. That way you weaken a division rival's farm which should make them worse in a few years when you are ready to compete. I think the whole don't trade in your division thing is overblown in general but even more so at the start of a rebuild.

 

Perhaps. I think of two offers are the same they probably aren't going to trade within the division. If be curious on the amount of trades the brewers have done within the division.

[pacopete4]

Cole isn’t that good. Return reflects that.

[brewcrewdue80]

I like Musgrove, Im sure he'll be starting. Moran, based on offensive stats seems to have found some of what made him a top 10 pick. Pirates are in need of a 3b and he's ready to go. The Feliz Im not familiar with but he had a high K rate for a RP, comes with a lot of team control and RPs seem to have more Up years than down as a Pirate.

It may look light, but I think it will pack more punch than what sits in front of the eyes now.

[JohnBriggs12]

I like Musgrove, Im sure he'll be starting. Moran, based on offensive stats seems to have found some of what made him a top 10 pick. Pirates are in need of a 3b and he's ready to go. The Feliz Im not familiar with but he had a high K rate for a RP, comes with a lot of team control and RPs seem to have more Up years than down as a Pirate.

It may look light, but I think it will pack more punch than what sits in front of the eyes now.

 

On balance, I think the 2018 Pirates are better after the deal than before it. It won't make them a contender That's why I don't think they are heading into a long term rebuild. That's assuming Cole's the 4 or so ERA guy he was the last couple years. Pirate's were between a rock and a hard place. Cole is a guy who's better when his team contends. He loses focus when the games mean little and throws a few down the middle of the plate and gets hit hard.

Don't discount the difficulty a franchise like the Pirates have selling a complete tanking rebuild. They were bad for so long and it's not that long ago. The Royals are in a similar spot but at least they had postseason success. But it's still hard for them to give up so much talent and ask their fans for patience again.