Danny Salazar

[Boomer5]

I would agree that a centerfielder would make much more sense for the Indians. Brantley got 0 at-bats as a centerfielder last year so I'd guess they just don't want to play him there anymore. As already noted Chisenhall can play there but I doubt the Indians would want him to start 100 games there in case something happened with Zimmer. Zimmer is a long-term, building block type player for them but he only slashed .241/.307/.385/.692 last season so that's probably where they need insurance. Not sure if they would view Tyler Naquin or Greg Allen as the centerfield insurance piece? If it's Allen then he'd probably have to be subtracted from the trade and a different top 10 organizational prospect included.

 

But I do think the Indians could use another outfielder. Over the last three years Chisenhall averaged 105 games played and Brantley only averaged 79. Braun is the model of durability when compared to these two players. Even if those games played for Chisenhall and Brantley are all starts and not bench appearances, it still leaves 140 games open for a different player to start. Even though Chisenhall and Brantley are both good players, I almost have to think their corner outfield situation is rather poor considering the injury factor.

 

Without this trade the Indians outfield is probably Brantley, Chisenhall, Guyer, Naquin and Zimmer. Naquin has two options left so with Santana it looks like Brantley, Chisenhall, Guyer, Santana and Zimmer. I could see the Indians doing this, especially if they are looking to move Salazar.

 

The other thing is that Brantley and Chisenhall are both free agents after this year so having Santana under control for four seasons would be make him a logical fit for them. But again, for 2019 they may be looking at Allen, Guyer (2019 option year), Naquin, Santana, Zimmer as their outfielders so Allen may have to be subtracted out of a possible trade.

 

You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

 

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.

[KeithStone53151]

You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

 

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.

 

This is part of why I suggested targeting Salazar + Mejia and sending Santana+. We are incredibly deep in those mid-tier prospects...not blue chippers but significantly more valuable than the "meh" group. Santana + Gatewood + Henry for Salazar + Mejia? Something like that, maybe it takes more I have a tough time gauging Mejia's value.

[Warning Track Power]

You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

 

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.

This may be why a deal doesn't come together...or why a deal may just be a straight up Santana for Salazar, which I would not like.

[Madhawk23]

OK - let me take a shot here:

 

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

 

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

 

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

 

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?

[bill hAll Star]

OK - let me take a shot here:

 

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

 

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

 

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

 

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?

 

Probably not enough. Mejia was a top 30 or top 40 prospect going into last year and he had a nice year. I'd guess he's a top 15 or top 20 prospect this year.

 

So, maybe Brinson or Burnes or a combo like Ortiz and _____.

 

Salazar is almost fair straight up for Santana, maybe a slight edge to Santana given an extra year of control and Salazar having some issues last year, but then again, pitching is always valued a bit more.

 

So now you're taking a somewhat fair swap and adding one of the best prospect in baseball in return for a grab bag of a decent prospect or guy like Broxton.

[Devinep]

There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

 

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in

[KeithStone53151]

OK - let me take a shot here:

 

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

 

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

 

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

 

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?

 

Probably not enough. Mejia was a top 30 or top 40 prospect going into last year and he had a nice year. I'd guess he's a top 15 or top 20 prospect this year.

 

So, maybe Brinson or Burnes or a combo like Ortiz and _____.

 

Salazar is almost fair straight up for Santana, maybe a slight edge to Santana given an extra year of control and Salazar having some issues last year, but then again, pitching is always valued a bit more.

 

So now you're taking a somewhat fair swap and adding one of the best prospect in baseball in return for a grab bag of a decent prospect or guy like Broxton.

 

I think the drop from Santana to Salazar is more sizeable than you think due to injury issues. Santana had injury issues in 2016, aside from that he's been mostly healthy. Salazar is a pitcher that has had issues on pretty much every square inch of his arm.

 

I don't know that the Indians would want 2 outfielders to be added to the MLB roster. Maybe Santana + Ray + either a low level flier or a high floor depth arm. Ponce/Henry/Wilkerson/Stokes...someone in that caliber give or take. Ray isn't top 100 anymore, but he has the tools to bounce back into the spotlight similar to Harrison this year if he can sort out his swing mechanics. A healthy offseason the doesn't include knee surgery should help.

[Madhawk23]

OK - let me take a shot here:

 

Brewers get: Salazar and Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana and one of Broxton/Phillips/Ray (whichever they find most desirable)

 

Then, the Brewers go out and sign Lorenzo Cain.

 

We then have a SP in Salazar who still has big time potential and can slide right into our rotation this year, our catcher of the present and future in Mejia and Cain can come in and play CF and allow Brinson to start in RF this year.

 

Is this not enough for the Tribe to part ways with both Salazar and Mejia? Santana for Salazar straight up does not interest me from the Brewers standpoint, but there's obviously no way that the Tribe would throw Mejia into the deal without then getting something more in return from us. So, what would it take to get both Salazar and Mejia?

 

Probably not enough. Mejia was a top 30 or top 40 prospect going into last year and he had a nice year. I'd guess he's a top 15 or top 20 prospect this year.

 

So, maybe Brinson or Burnes or a combo like Ortiz and _____.

 

Salazar is almost fair straight up for Santana, maybe a slight edge to Santana given an extra year of control and Salazar having some issues last year, but then again, pitching is always valued a bit more.

 

So now you're taking a somewhat fair swap and adding one of the best prospect in baseball in return for a grab bag of a decent prospect or guy like Broxton.

 

I figured that it probably wasn't enough once I threw in Mejia. I know he's highly thought of, but I was hoping that with the Tribe having Yan Gomes signed up for awhile still that they might be more willing to part with Mejia - especially knowing that they'd have Santana locked up cheap for awhile along with another OF prospect with potential.

 

If they don't need two OF's, how about a Santana/Ortiz/Herrera package for Salazar/Mejia? I know Ortiz's value might be dropping just a bit, but I think he's still seen as a high upside type arm (with some weight concerns), and Herrera is more of a lottery ticket arm. Or, we could swap in someone like Ponce or Pennington if Herrera isn't what they are looking for.

 

I just think it would be great to get a franchise catcher like Mejia in this deal, but I also understand if the Tribe feels like they could get much more for him if dealt on his own.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

 

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in

 

Why in the world would the Indians trade for Aguilar, a guy they dumped less than a year ago?

[Devinep]

There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

 

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in

 

Why in the world would the Indians trade for Aguilar, a guy they dumped less than a year ago?

Less than a year ago they had an everyday 1B. Now they have a LHB platoon bat there.

 

Plus Aguilar established MLB ability last year

[KeithStone53151]

There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

 

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in

 

Why in the world would the Indians trade for Aguilar, a guy they dumped less than a year ago?

Less than a year ago they had an everyday 1B. Now they have a LHB platoon bat there.

 

Plus Aguilar established MLB ability last year

 

That might have been more reasonable before they got Encarnacion, but he can easily fill in at 1b.

 

I didn't realize until I just looked now, but holy mackeral is this team left handed. They project most days to start 5 LH, 2 switch, 2 RH. Sure Guyer will see the field a decent amount against lefties and both switch hitters are better RH than LH, but this is a team built to get seriously exposed against LH pitching.

[Devinep]

That lefty-heavy lineup is why Aguilar may have some appeal. I get Edwin moving to 1B vs LHB but there isn’t a great option at DH then.

 

Apparently with picking up Brantley’s option and signing Alonzo, they like their lineup that way though

[bill hAll Star]

Right-handed bats are a dime a dozen. If they’d deal for Aguilar it would be for peanuts. If not, they could cycle in a myriad of AAAA guys that one of which would eventually OPS .800+ against lefties.

[Boomer5]

You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

 

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.

 

This is part of why I suggested targeting Salazar + Mejia and sending Santana+. We are incredibly deep in those mid-tier prospects...not blue chippers but significantly more valuable than the "meh" group. Santana + Gatewood + Henry for Salazar + Mejia? Something like that, maybe it takes more I have a tough time gauging Mejia's value.

 

Probably a Santana plus volume type trade to get one of their starters plus a top 30 catcher like you mentioned. It really depends on what they really think of Mejia being an elite catcher and what they truly think of our guys not named Brinson.

[Boomer5]

There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

 

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in

 

Aguilar is barely a throw in and with apologies to the Nottingham fans here, his is just a guy who is a barely adequate catcher who hit 209 at AA.

 

Mejia would require a top 50 guy added to a Santana package.

[Boomer5]

You're right. Cleveland could definitely use Santana as their other OFers are either injury prone or meh. Santana is an upgrade.

 

The problem is their prospects are either too good at the top end or just so so after that. I'm not sure how to put a deal together that makes sense for either side.

This may be why a deal doesn't come together...or why a deal may just be a straight up Santana for Salazar, which I would not like.

 

Agreed. This is either a trade where we take a little less than Santana is worth or it tuns into a blockbuster.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

Salazar and Kipnis for Santana; the Brewers sign Jay Bruce to platoon with Brinson and Phillips.

[KeithStone53151]

Right-handed bats are a dime a dozen. If they’d deal for Aguilar it would be for peanuts. If not, they could cycle in a myriad of AAAA guys that one of which would eventually OPS .800+ against lefties.

 

Aguilar isn't a world beater, but I thought my Rogers comp was fairly reasonable. Aguilar is far more established as a solid hitter than Rogers was.

[Devinep]

There was a good point about a roster logjam in the Walker thread and there may be some thought 25/40 man roster decisions soon, so maybe Cleveland would Tske Aguilar back as a 1B platoon with Alonzo.

 

Brewers get: Salazar Mejia

 

Indians get: Santana, Nottingham (young C to “replace” Mejia), Aguilar,+throw in

 

Aguilar is barely a throw in and with apologies to the Nottingham fans here, his is just a guy who is a barely adequate catcher who hit 209 at AA.

 

Mejia would require a top 50 guy added to a Santana package.

 

I’d put Santana as more valuable than Salazar. That means the Brewers would be giving up the extra value there, Nottingham, Aguilar, plus another player to equate Mejia. That last piece may have to be good, but it’s not that far off

[JosephC]

Mejia doesn't work in this trade at all. He's in the same class as Brinson so the only way the values match up would be to also include Brinson...but it doesn't make much sense for the Indians to add both Santana and Brinson.

 

I could see Merryweather being included in a trade. If Salazar is traded the rotation is likely Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer, Tomlin, Clevinger and I'd guess that Ryan Merritt is the 6th/insurance starter. Merritt made four starts for them last year so he's probably the next guy in line. Merryweather did not fare well at AAA last year (6.58 ERA, 1.67 WHIP) and isn't listed in the Indian's top 10 prospects by Baseball America. Really cannot see him as being an untouchable in trade talks.

 

The more I looked at the Indian's outfield situation, the more I think that it doesn't make sense for them to include Greg Allen as a third piece in a deal. Take him out an include RHP-Aaron Civale instead. So I'd expect it to be something along the lines of Santana and Bickford OR Medeiros for Salazar and Chang and Civale.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Why wouldn't Cleveland just sign Cain? His bat is not as good as santana but he plays CF with pretty good D. They would not lose any prospects as well.

[JosephC]

Because the Indians' 2017 payroll was at a record high 124 million and they are projected to be at 133 million to start 2018. They are not in a big TV market (17th largest) and adding Cain would likely push their payroll to well over 150 million. They might not be able to go that high even with the recent success.

[Eye Black]

Mejia doesn't work in this trade at all. He's in the same class as Brinson so the only way the values match up would be to also include Brinson...but it doesn't make much sense for the Indians to add both Santana and Brinson.

This is spot on. JosephC did a great job earlier in the thread dissecting the value involved in this possible trade involving Santana and Salazar. I agree Santana is more valuable than Salazar due to the extra year of control and having lower injury risk than Salazar, but it’s not enough to justify the Indians including a top 25 MLB prospect for 2-3 additional pieces that have very little trade value. Matching up these teams on a realistic trade that includes the Brewers acquiring both Salazar and Mejia is nearly impossible.

[Eye Black]

Cleveland gets:

OF - Domingo Santana (72 million surplus value...2.4 WAR player each of next four seasons)

role-player pitching prospect / maybe either Medeiros or Bickford (5.72 million surplus value)

Total = 77.72 million

 

Milwaukee gets:

RHP - Danny Salazar (45 million surplus value...2.3 WAR player each of next three seasons)

SS - Yu-Cheng Chang (top 10 organizational prospect...11.45 million surplus value)

OF - Greg Allen (top 10 organizational prospect...11.45 million surplus value)

Total = 67.9 million

I would prefer to swap out one of those additional pieces with RHP Shane Bieber in that scenario. Bieber appears to have impeccable command with some added velocity and improving secondary pitches. Seems like a guy that could develop into a solid mid-rotation starter.

[TooLiveBrew]

Mejia doesn't work in this trade at all. He's in the same class as Brinson so the only way the values match up would be to also include Brinson...but it doesn't make much sense for the Indians to add both Santana and Brinson.

This is spot on. JosephC did a great job earlier in the thread dissecting the value involved in this possible trade involving Santana and Salazar. I agree Santana is more valuable than Salazar due to the extra year of control and having lower injury risk than Salazar, but it’s not enough to justify the Indians including a top 25 MLB prospect for 2-3 additional pieces that have very little trade value. Matching up these teams on a realistic trade that includes the Brewers acquiring both Salazar and Mejia is nearly impossible.

I'm not advocating for this, but I think Santana + Ortiz for Salazar + Mejia would at least be close. Brewers might need to add more, but hopefully not a ton.