Alex Cobb (Part 1)

[82brewcrew82]

Side not on Davies.

 

I know all games count equal and all but...

 

First 3 games in 2016 and first 4 games in 2017.

33 ip, 31 er.... 8.45 era

The rest

321.2 ip, 124 er..... 3.47 era

 

Not a playoff pitcher?

Sure, as maybe a four but not a two.

[MrTPlush]

Only problem is you can't sign free agents in July...you are then forced to go and dump out the farm. Not to mention the deadline is a huge crapshoot. You don't want to find yourself desperate come July 31st.

[TJseven7]

Only problem is you can't sign free agents in July...you are then forced to go and dump out the farm. Not to mention the deadline is a huge crapshoot. You don't want to find yourself desperate come July 31st.

 

If you plan to add a high end starter. Was the price for Q lower than.the archer ask?

[JohnBriggs12]

I think it'd be a big mistake to let go of Villar at this point since they wouldn't get much for him.

 

Maybe Hernan could be added to a trade, or Sogard (despite the fact he's the kind of player CC loves) could be cut. I don't think his contract is guaranteed, is it?

 

If they sign Walker, and let go of Hernan, Villar could play the role Hernan did last year. Spelling Walker at 2B, Arcia at SS, Shaw at 3B, getting 3-4 starts per week, maybe playing his way into more ABs, and adding depth for a trading chip at the trading deadline. Much better than letting him go.

 

Villar has much less value as a utility player than either Perez or Sogard. Unlike Perez who's shown he can adequately play 7 positions and Sogard who can play SS and 2B, Villar has been moved from position to position because he's failed defensively wherever's he's been tried. He's least bad at 2B. Villar posted a woeful .607 OPS vs. RHP in 2017. Perez hit lefties at a .789 clip in 2017. Sogard had a .402 OBP vs. RHP. That's just the numbers, but the real separation between Perez/Sogard and Villar is the mental aspect of the game. Perez and Sogard are very heads up type players for lack of a better term and simply do not make anywhere near the mental errors that Villar is famous for. Last September when all of Walker, Sogard, Perez and Villar were on the roster, Walker made approximately half the starts at 2B, with Sogard and Perez splitting the rest, save for the meaningless finale that Villar started, his only start at 2B the entire month. That tells you all you want to know what Counsell thinks of them.

 

If Walker is signed, Villar is gone. He might be gone anyway. Maybe not immediately, but Counsell likes the versatility and the heads up play of Sogard and Perez on his bench if not sharing the 2B job, and not the frustrating play of Villar. There's nothing to suggest that the 2016 season of Villar was anything but an outlier. He didn't do much as an Astro, and he failed in 2017 after being given the job over Scooter Gennett who went on to flourish as a Red.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Walker is signed, Villar is gone. He might be gone anyway. Maybe not immediately, but Counsell likes the versatility and the heads up play of Sogard and Perez on his bench if not sharing the 2B job, and not the frustrating play of Villar. There's nothing to suggest that the 2016 season of Villar was anything but an outlier. He didn't do much as an Astro, and he failed in 2017 after being given the job over Scooter Gennett who went on to flourish as a Red.

 

If Walker is signed, I agree, Villar will be traded or dumped. But if Walker isn't signed, Villar is the starter at 2B. He offers SO much more upside than Sogard on Perez. Like mountains more. It isn't even close.

 

I think everyone who has ever seen anything on this board knows your thoughts on the Gennett transaction, There is really no need to beat that dead horse any further.

[brewmann04]

I think Villar will be our starting 2nd baseman come opening day.I don't mind him but he has to cut down on some of those stupid mistakes

[Cire52]

New HH19 Tweet:

 

https://twitter.com/HighHeat9Teen/status/963564356872130560

 

Cobb.

 

Edit:

 

And a follow-up tweet:

 

https://twitter.com/HighHeat9Teen/status/963564606143819777

 

Let me re-clarify. Cobb's agent.

[Boomer5]

Just saw that. It's about the $$$ of course but glad it wasn't Arrieta.

[StCroixCtyBrewer]

Not only because I love Cobb, but I hope HH nails this and shuts people up, specifically the more well known Brewers twitter accounts who do nothing but crap on him. I would love to see him nail this when nobody else is reporting anything similar

[tigerbrew]

If Cobb is a lot cheaper than Arrieta, I'd prefer to sign Cobb. Another positive is that Cobb is 1.5 years younger.

[brewcrew42]

Cobb is fine. He's not as good since returning from his 2015 Tommy John surgery, but still good. A 2.5 WAR guy. He's good as a 3rd starter in the rotation, but I don't view him as moving the needle for us compared to the Cubs. Should we get Cobb, I will wait for judgment until we see what other moves are in store. Still think we need a stud to lead the rotation if we're serious about contending, so we'll see what kind of trade is made. I wouldn't be happy with Cobb as our only pitching acquisition.

[JohnBriggs12]

I think Villar will be our starting 2nd baseman come opening day.I don't mind him but he has to cut down on some of those stupid mistakes

 

Counsell didn't tolerate those mental errors when this team found itself in a playoff race. I get to see our of town telecasts. You'd be shocked at the respect Perez has around the league compared to Villar primarily for his overall heads up play. That isn't lost on Counsell and neither is Sogard's solid play.

 

The announcers around the league don't think much of Villar either. He gets mocked for his strikeouts and,defensive lapses. They always mention the Brewers as a team having defensive issues with Villar the biggest culpret. Not all of that is their own observation either. They quote their team's coaches.

[Brewer Fever]

Cobb had a 2.4 WAR last year ranking him 67th in MLB among all pitchers. His two years prior to TJ he put up a 3.9 WAR in consecutive years. 2017 was his first full comeback year so there's every reason to believe he'll be even stronger in 2018. A 3.0 WAR is not at all a stretch given he's getting out of the AL East and and he's 1 more year removed from TJ. And a 3.0 WAR would make him a top 40 pitcher. That's a solid #2 starter.

[brewmann04]

Thanks Johnny

[djd1228]

Not only because I love Cobb, but I hope HH nails this and shuts people up, specifically the more well known Brewers twitter accounts who do nothing but crap on him. I would love to see him nail this when nobody else is reporting anything similar

 

Ya if we sign Cobb in the next few days, ill be a 100% believer. It seemed like the Yelich news he dropped was already being talked about when it happened so im still skeptical. Nothing imminent is connecting the Brewers and Cobb right now from what i can find besides him.

[brewmann04]

But others might say is the reason they signed Cobb is that Jake was unreasonable

[tmwiese55]

I hope at some point baseball reference includes a needles moved stat.

 

With the cost on Arrieta like it sounds still seems to me this is a fair compromise.

[brewerhuman]

Hey gang, this is my first ever post. Wanted to hop in and say that I'm okay with Cobb on the condition that they turn around and make a trade for another quality starter. I was hoping for Yu or Jake too, but the more I thought about it, the more comfortable I am with it. If you sign Cobb and get someone like Salazar/Odorizzi now, you kind of turn the rotation into a position of strength [in terms of depth]. If an opportunity to trade for Archer or Stroman comes before Opening Day or the deadline, you might be able to include a major league-ish ready arm in addition to whatever the other parts of the package are. Perhaps that's too dreamy, but if Boras is holding Arrieta to the point where Stearns & Co. can't consider signing him as valuable, I'm okay with this plan of action. What do you all think?

[82brewcrew82]

I hope at some point baseball reference includes a needles moved stat.

 

With the cost on Arrieta like it sounds still seems to me this is a fair compromise.

They do, several of them. They just call it something different.

[82brewcrew82]

Hey gang, this is my first ever post. Wanted to hop in and say that I'm okay with Cobb on the condition that they turn around and make a trade for another quality starter. I was hoping for Yu or Jake too, but the more I thought about it, the more comfortable I am with it. If you sign Cobb and get someone like Salazar/Odorizzi now, you kind of turn the rotation into a position of strength [in terms of depth]. If an opportunity to trade for Archer or Stroman comes before Opening Day or the deadline, you might be able to include a major league-ish ready arm in addition to whatever the other parts of the package are. Perhaps that's too dreamy, but if Boras is holding Arietta to the point where Stearns & Co. can't consider signing him as valuable, I'm okay with this plan of action. What do you all think?

Welcome to the board! I think I'm right in lien with your thought process.

[jonescm128]

Hey gang, this is my first ever post. Wanted to hop in and say that I'm okay with Cobb on the condition that they turn around and make a trade for another quality starter. I was hoping for Yu or Jake too, but the more I thought about it, the more comfortable I am with it. If you sign Cobb and get someone like Salazar/Odorizzi now, you kind of turn the rotation into a position of strength [in terms of depth]. If an opportunity to trade for Archer or Stroman comes before Opening Day or the deadline, you might be able to include a major league-ish ready arm in addition to whatever the other parts of the package are. Perhaps that's too dreamy, but if Boras is holding Arietta to the point where Stearns & Co. can't consider signing him as valuable, I'm okay with this plan of action. What do you all think?

 

TBH, I think a lot of this depends on how Nelson is able to recover and if he can get back to where he was before. If that is the case then around June you could have a rotation of Nelson, Anderson, Cobb, Davies, and Chacin. That is a quality rotation. Baseball has become a bullpen game these days so you don't need a stellar rotation of multiple #1's in order to compete. If he isn't moving along as expected then I can see them trading for someone at the deadline. Teams who are underperforming could also be looking to trade guys so there could be more options come July.

 

I love Hader and Knebel in the bullpen and I am hoping Barnes can improve and Albers is able to replicate what he did last year. Add in our improved lineup with the additions of Cain and Yelich (who also improve the defense) and we are looking at a very good team. Excited to see what the next few weeks brings!

[NievesNoNO]

I could get on board with Cobb as well, obviously depending on the deal. He's been good over his career when healthy. I for sure like him better than Lynn and will likely com at half the cost of Arrieta and might very well out perform him.

 

Even if they sign him, I'd still be on the look for another starter. His injury history is too strong to rely on him as the only rotation upgrade.

[Yolk]

Cobb is the pitcher I wanted to begin with so I’d be pumped if he’s a Brewer. It would appear I’m in the minority of not wanting to trade for any of the pitchers discussed (though I do like Manaea but don’t think Oakland is looking to move him). I’d prefer to sign Cobb, play Braun at first, trade Thames and Broxton for some prospects, and go into the season with a rotation of Cobb, Anderson, Davies, Chacin, Woodruff until Jimmy comes back. I don’t think that’s a bad rotation and I see both Cobb and Woodruff outplaying their projections.

[Warning Track Power]

If the Brewers can sign Cobb for roughly what it cost the Cubs to acquire Chatwood that is a win. The Brewers need to look at Cobb as their acquisition to counter Chatwood. They still have work to do to counter Darvish.

[TJseven7]

Hey gang, this is my first ever post. Wanted to hop in and say that I'm okay with Cobb on the condition that they turn around and make a trade for another quality starter. I was hoping for Yu or Jake too, but the more I thought about it, the more comfortable I am with it. If you sign Cobb and get someone like Salazar/Odorizzi now, you kind of turn the rotation into a position of strength [in terms of depth]. If an opportunity to trade for Archer or Stroman comes before Opening Day or the deadline, you might be able to include a major league-ish ready arm in addition to whatever the other parts of the package are. Perhaps that's too dreamy, but if Boras is holding Arietta to the point where Stearns & Co. can't consider signing him as valuable, I'm okay with this plan of action. What do you all think?

 

TBH, I think a lot of this depends on how Nelson is able to recover and if he can get back to where he was before. If that is the case then around June you could have a rotation of Nelson, Anderson, Cobb, Davies, and Chacin. That is a quality rotation. Baseball has become a bullpen game these days so you don't need a stellar rotation of multiple #1's in order to compete. If he isn't moving along as expected then I can see them trading for someone at the deadline. Teams who are underperforming could also be looking to trade guys so there could be more options come July.

 

I love Hader and Knebel in the bullpen and I am hoping Barnes can improve and Albers is able to replicate what he did last year. Add in our improved lineup with the additions of Cain and Yelich (who also improve the defense) and we are looking at a very good team. Excited to see what the next few weeks brings!

 

Point to add... even if we get to.the point of nelson anderson cobb davies chacin one thing that can't be overlooked is that Chacin has the best slider in baseball. If depth was in place on the starting line its very possible chacin could turn to the pen and become very similar to swarzak. Pound sliders until 3 outs are recorded. Its a big bonus to have in playoff baseball. If your 5 can flip a switch and ride 1 dominant pitch in the pen thats added value. If they add a piece via trade Chacin at 6.75 mil next year could be a cheaper better swarzak.

 

Basically even with nelson anderson trade cobb davies there's a use for chacin built in. Woodruff or Davies would be the 2018 offseason choice if both haven't been traded in the move for another big arm.