Is Woodruff now a viable trade chip?

[JohnBriggs12]

The recent additions of veterans Gallardo and Chacin to shore up the back end of the rotation, leads me to think that Woodruff, who heretofore had been conceded a rotation spot and thus not a name being brought up as a trade chip, might be the best guy to use to get a more established starter. Remember that Woodruff's outstanding career debut came against the Rays, who at the very least have Odorizzi available and might consider dealing Archer. Most proposals for acquiring that established controllable starter have included arms the Brewers have at mid to upper levels of the minors and that made sense because Woodruff's presence in the rotation was needed. Perhaps a guy who's already made the big leagues like Woodruff is more attractive to teams like the Rays that can just plug him in on a team in the early stages of a rebuild. Now with the likes of Chacin in the 3rd or 4th spot and addition of a proven starter like Odorizzi, they'd still have Suter, Guerra and Gallardo to battle it out for 5th spot.

 

If your the Brewers and think eventually you prefer Hader, Burnes, Peralta over Woodruff, does it make sense to sacrifice him now straight up for say 2 years of Odorizzi? As I pointed out in a different thread, the top 3 guys in the Brewer rotation heading into next year had a combined record of 42-23. If you add Odorizzi as the 4th member, that goes to 52-31 for the top 4.

[trwi7]

No

[rwa12]

I might use him for Archer, but dealing him for Odorizzi would seem to be the wrong direction, IMO. They're somewhat similar profiles, would seem to be trading youth for age in a like talent profile.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Not a chance. Why is it that other teams can trade low-level minor leaguers for studs, yet any time the Brewers are brought up in a prospective trade for a big name, it's our MLB-ready young studs that are talked about? I think if the team trades prospects, it's either going to be from the glut of outfielders, or it's going to be younger pitchers at lower levels, such as Ortiz, Peralta, Diplan and Susak. Leave Woodruff, Burnes and Hader alone.

[Humans Need Water]

There's zero logical reasoning for trading 6yrs of Woodruff for 2yrs of Odorizzi.

 

I'm still not on board with trading any of our 3 pitching prospects (Woodruff, Burnes, Ortiz) for Archer as they can all post 1.250 whip, 3 BB9, 8.4 H9, 4.04 ERA, 101 ERA+ themselves with 6yrs control at a much cheaper price tag. Not to mention Woodruff already has 8 starts so he's ready, Burnes will be ready by the second half and Ortiz potentially by 2019. They're all right in front of our faces. I'm not against trading for Archer, I'm against trading certain prospects for Archer - prospects based on ability and where they're at in our org (ie strong ability and MLB ready or on the cusp of being ready - Brinson/Phillips included).

 

I also don't think Gallardo was signed to shore up the back of the rotation. He was signed as a multi-inning pen arm and rotational depth vs taking a rotation spot. All this said, Stearns can trade any player in this org top-down if he deems the value coming back to be worth what he's giving up.

[Humans Need Water]

Not a chance. Why is it that other teams can trade low-level minor leaguers for studs, yet any time the Brewers are brought up in a prospective trade for a big name, it's our MLB-ready young studs that are talked about? I think if the team trades prospects, it's either going to be from the glut of outfielders, or it's going to be younger pitchers at lower levels, such as Ortiz, Peralta, Diplan and Susak. Leave Woodruff, Burnes and Hader alone.

Ortiz has 157 innings logged at AA already and will most likely start in AAA. Peralta threw 64 innings in AA this year and will see AAA by mid-season. They can both see MLB in 2019 at some point. I agree with you that we should trade from our lower depth that hasn't seen AA yet - Ray, Harrison, Clark in OF and Bickford, Kodi, Diplan, Ponce, Supak, Pennington, Herrera, Kirby for pitchers plus there's a bunch of other solid prospects mixed in as well that can be additional pieces to trades (Stokes, Yamamoto, etc). Plus there's a bunch of these guys that need to be Rule 5 protected next year so Stearns will be wheeling and dealing within the next 12 months

[TJseven7]

For 2 years of Odruzzi... no

As a piece for Archer... no

For multiple top 100 not quite mlb ready prospects... I'd listen to that.

 

He wouldnt be untouchable but I'd want to be the team trading him who wants to speed up the arrival of their farm, not the other way around. He jumped up rankings nearing his arrival but wasnt highly highly touted. He's still unknown but he's here now. If someone wants now over more... i like more.

 

Do I think hader fperalta pass him as a starter. Nope. Do I think Burnes and Ortiz do. Probably but I dont think they run to the majors as quickly as others do. You also have to factor in Davies arby starts next year and if he doesn't sign a team friendly extension he's getting sold off before that price spikes. (Aka santana) chacin is 2 yr... Nelson is???

 

I'm not trading ready for a possible upgrade and shorter control. Im only trading ready for more.

 

2b, OF youth, pen and 5th starter are still questions that adding archer doesn't remedy if we trade woodruff. If we can't answer those you dont trade a huge package to get archer now.

[jerichoholicninja]

Gallardo and Chacin has slightly less than zero impact on Woodruff or any SP's future with the organization. Yo will only be here a year if he even makes it out of Arizona and Chacin for 2. They still need guys to fill out a rotation after they're gone.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

For 2 years of Odruzzi... no

As a piece for Archer... no

For multiple top 100 not quite mlb ready prospects... I'd listen to that.

 

Prospect for prospect deals happen basically around never.

[KeithStone53151]

This isn't quite "counsell is gonna get fired if we miss the playoffs" territory, but it's close. That's about all I've got for this thread.

[TJseven7]

For 2 years of Odruzzi... no

As a piece for Archer... no

For multiple top 100 not quite mlb ready prospects... I'd listen to that.

 

Prospect for prospect deals happen basically around never.

 

Well then those are the odds I deal him.

[FmrBeerMan]

That is one of the worst things I have ever read on here. (Been reading consistently for about a year just starting posting) How does that make any sense? Explain.

[jerichoholicninja]

That is one of the worst things I have ever read on here. (Been reading consistently for about a year just starting posting) How does that make any sense? Explain.

 

Standard post from the OP.

[TJseven7]

It's Briggs... you take the good with the huh

[NievesNoNO]

I don't think the moves so far make a Woodruff trade any more likely. I'm only dealing him if it's Archer coming back.

 

I kind of look at Woodruff and think if everything came together for him he could be Michael Fulmer-ish. I would consider dealing him though for a Duffy or Archer type with control. The thing about young pitchers is they usually take a couple years to really develope at the MLB level. There's a good possibility that even if Woodruff ends up being a solid mid rotation guy, he won't reach that for a couple more seasons. So while he's controllable for 6 years, I think it's fair to think about how many truly productive seasons will be part of those 6 years.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't know, I don't see the problem with having a thread for trading literally any player. To answer the question though, 6 years of Woodruff for 2 years of Odruzzi? Absolutely not.

 

Here's the problem with trading a guy like Woodruff. It costs the Brewers almost nothing to find out what his upside is, it costs someone else at least somewhat significant prospects to find out. That makes a trade almost impossible, unless the Brewers are very confident his ceiling is really low and suckers someone, or another team is willing to bet he will be really good. There's just no balance there to arrive at a deal.

[JohnBriggs12]

I'm not surprised by some negative reaction, but really? If all it took was Ortiz, or a low level arm to land a middle of the rotation starter with at least 2 years of control, don't you think it would be done?

 

To get a guy that can really help, it's going to take giving something back that actually hurts, not guys like Broxton, Villar and your 6th or 7th best pitching prospect. The jury is still out on Woodruff after a decent but not dazzling 8 major league starts. To get them over the hump in the next couple years, a more proven guy would make sense, while preserving studs like Hader and Burnes. I just threw out Odorizzi as an example. Insert your choice: Duffy, Corbin...etc. Not nearly enough back? Expand it. Duffy and Merrifield for Woodruff and Villar for instance or go for an Archer or a Stroman with Woodruff as part of a package.

 

As usual most of you missed my point which was the addition of two starting pitcher value FA opens the door for discussion of using Woodruff in a deal. If you think he's a future ace or number 2 starter and can perform now as no worse than a solid #4, then you hold on to him almost at any cost, but if you see a guy who eventually will establish himself 2 or 3 years from now as a middle of the rotation guy, but is now more of an average at best 4 or a 5 (as I am inclined to), then by all means he can be discussed. Last year showed the window can open at any time and can close just as quickly.

[MNBrew]

I'm not sure I'd give up Woodruff for Odorizzi if they're the main parts of the deal. I wouldn't have a problem dealing a young prospect pitcher as part of an Archer deal since it would give us at least 4 years of Archer.

[TJseven7]

I'm not surprised by some negative reaction, but really? If all it took was Ortiz, or a low level arm to land a middle of the rotation starter with at least 2 years of control, don't you think it would be done?

 

To get a guy that can really help, it's going to take giving something back that actually hurts, not guys like Broxton, Villar and your 6th or 7th best pitching prospect. The jury is still out on Woodruff after a decent but not dazzling 8 major league starts. To get them over the hump in the next couple years, a more proven guy would make sense, while preserving studs like Hader and Burnes. I just threw out Odorizzi as an example. Insert your choice: Duffy, Corbin...etc. Not nearly enough back? Expand it. Duffy and Merrifield for Woodruff and Villar for instance or go for an Archer or a Stroman with Woodruff as part of a package.

 

As usual most of you missed my point which was the addition of two starting pitcher value FA opens the door for discussion of using Woodruff in a deal. If you think he's a future ace or number 2 starter and can perform now as no worse than a solid #4, then you hold on to him almost at any cost, but if you see a guy who eventually will establish himself 2 or 3 years from now as a middle of the rotation guy, but is now more of an average at best 4 or a 5 (as I am inclined to), then by all means he can be discussed. Last year showed the window can open at any time and can close just as quickly.

 

Over the hump? As in to the return of Nelson arrival of Burnes Ortiz or as in.over the hump and into the playoffs?

 

If its the latter your probably going to need to empty the farm to kc and mia for multiple multiple pieces. The cubs were bad as was the division. We aren't as close to the hump as you seem to be thinking.

[homer]

That is one of the worst things I have ever read on here. (Been reading consistently for about a year just starting posting) How does that make any sense? Explain.

 

Standard post from the OP.

 

No reason to gang up on him.

[MillerParkSouth]

This isn't quite "counsell is gonna get fired if we miss the playoffs" territory, but it's close. That's about all I've got for this thread.

What???

[Fear The Chorizo]

The jury is still out on Woodruff after a decent but not dazzling 8 major league starts. To get them over the hump in the next couple years, a more proven guy would make sense, while preserving studs like Hader and Burnes.

 

Woodruff in 2016 was basically Burnes in 2017 - meaning he's a "stud" that's 1 year further advanced in his development than Burnes. Sure, Woodruff could prove to be inadequate as a MLB starter...but the Brewers can't glean that from 8 big league starts last season, which also happened to come well after his original intended debut due to injury.

[brewcrewdue80]

Woodruff is my favorite Brewers Pitching prospect since Yovani. I didnt really know on Peralta when he emerged, and in Nelson I liked but believed he'd be too wild to reach a good #3.

Certainly other teams hold Woodruff in high regard in a trade. He just happens to get lost on value with higher ceiling options of Brinson/Hader/Ortiz.

Woodruff is going to be an innings eating mid 3ERA #3 starter. The type like Lance Lynn results. Thats a lot of 3WAR value seasons. It's for that reason I didn't and dont want to see him actually traded.

[endaround]

Woodruff is my favorite Brewers Pitching prospect since Yovani. I didnt really know on Peralta when he emerged, and in Nelson I liked but believed he'd be too wild to reach a good #3.

Certainly other teams hold Woodruff in high regard in a trade. He just happens to get lost on value with higher ceiling options of Brinson/Hader/Ortiz.

Woodruff is going to be an innings eating mid 3ERA #3 starter. The type like Lance Lynn results. Thats a lot of 3WAR value seasons. It's for that reason I didn't and dont want to see him actually traded.

 

A mid 3 ERA start as a #3? A mid 3 ERA starter is an ace. The way people still treat pitchers like this is 1986 is amazing.

[brewcrewdue80]

Woodruff is my favorite Brewers Pitching prospect since Yovani. I didnt really know on Peralta when he emerged, and in Nelson I liked but believed he'd be too wild to reach a good #3.

Certainly other teams hold Woodruff in high regard in a trade. He just happens to get lost on value with higher ceiling options of Brinson/Hader/Ortiz.

Woodruff is going to be an innings eating mid 3ERA #3 starter. The type like Lance Lynn results. Thats a lot of 3WAR value seasons. It's for that reason I didn't and dont want to see him actually traded.

 

A mid 3 ERA start as a #3? A mid 3 ERA starter is an ace. The way people still treat pitchers like this is 1986 is amazing.

 

So then An Ace is waiting for us for under 70mil in Lance Lynn? And we want garbage Duffy?