Brewers sign Jhoulys Chacin

[brewcrewdue80]

I remember Chacin early in then beginning having a filthy slider or curve? Some breaking pitch that when hes on, he's a shoe in QS. When its not youre getting 4IP 5ER with 4/5BBs. The talent is there, the control just needed to catch up and he was a ToR type pitcher. Id say he was a target in trade threads previously due to that talent and the Coors factor. Or the ability in lack of Coors factor.

Starter or maybe wicked RP down the stretch. He's got value if he performs any better than overall numbers last season to be traded next offseason if the minor guys are pushing the envelope to get starts. Im okay with the move simply because he has upside, a type of pitcher to be worth a lot oneseason and little to none another season.

Now for the last name fun in batting lineups. Arcia Chacin' or Pina Chacin' what will that become t-shirt makers?

[Patrick425]

I'm old and still can not get over how normalized it has become for a mediocre career 4.00 ERA pitcher to get $8mil/year. No one is shocked by these numbers any more. We don't have a AAA pitcher that could put up slightly worse numbers for a lot less?

 

When we signed our stream of 30-something "meh" pitchers under Melvin, they were usually 3-4 years in the $10-13M / year range. That's the market, so that makes this a discount to the market.

 

Yes, I get that. My point is that I think the market is crazy. And yes, I know the whole sentiment of "Oh, these greedy billionaire owners can afford it. The values of their teams double every 5 years...blah, blah, blah" Maybe?, but none of that is guaranteed. If it was, there would be 100 billionaires lining up every time a MLB team went up for sale.

[Surhoff5]

I know Keith Law is not well liked around these parts, but he had Chacin as his 14th ranked Free Agent, ahead of Lynn (16), Minor (24), and Chatwood (41). All of those guys are going to get a lot more than what the Brewers just paid.

 

His write up:

 

"Chacin has pitched in the majors for parts of nine seasons, roughly five of them full ones, and has just over 1,000 career innings pitched with above-average results. Because of some ill-timed injuries, however, Chacin has earned over $2 million in just one season of his career, and made only $1.75 million from San Diego for his 2.4-win performance in 2017.

 

His sinker/slider approach isn't always pretty -- he walks more guys than you'd like and generally tries to pitch away from contact -- but it works, as he tends to keep the ball down and generates enough weak contact to be effective. There's some downside risk here, as he doesn't have a real plus pitch to generate swings-and-misses, but he has enough of a track record to treat him and pay him like a No. 3 starter."

[trwi7]

Your missing a surprising amount of detail here as to how he has outperformed him. Go on......

 

 

 

Since Peralta's debut.

 

Innings: 704.2 Peralta - 649 Chacin

K%: 16.7 Peralta - 16.8 Chacin

BB%: 8.4 Peralta - 8.9 Chacin

HR/9: 1.09 Peralta - .89 Chacin

LOB%: 71.0 Peralta - 72.5 Chacin

GB%: 51.2 Peralta - 46.6 Chacin

ERA: 4.48 Peralta - 4.15 Chacin

FIP: 4.42 Peralta - 4.21 Chacin

Soft Contact%: 18.1 Peralta - 17.4 Chacin

Medium Contact%: 51.7 Peralta - 50.6 Chacin

Hard Contact%: 30.5 Peralta - 32.0 Chacin

Line Drive%: 20.7 Peralta - 22.0 Chacin

 

And yes I'm fully aware that Peralta has been trending down and was beyond terrible last year. There is no need to point that out to me. My thing is we shouldn't be giving multi-year, 8 figure contracts to pitchers that are basically Peralta in his career here. If you want innings, just sign guys like Gallardo or Milone last year for next to nothing on one year commitments.

[Humans Need Water]

Your missing a surprising amount of detail here as to how he has outperformed him. Go on......

 

 

 

 

Since Peralta's debut.

 

Innings: 704.2 Peralta - 649 Chacin

K%: 16.7 Peralta - 16.8 Chacin

BB%: 8.4 Peralta - 8.9 Chacin

HR/9: 1.09 Peralta - .89 Chacin

LOB%: 71.0 Peralta - 72.5 Chacin

GB%: 51.2 Peralta - 46.6 Chacin

ERA: 4.48 Peralta - 4.15 Chacin

FIP: 4.42 Peralta - 4.21 Chacin

Soft Contact%: 18.1 Peralta - 17.4 Chacin

Medium Contact%: 51.7 Peralta - 50.6 Chacin

Hard Contact%: 30.5 Peralta - 32.0 Chacin

Line Drive%: 20.7 Peralta - 22.0 Chacin

 

And yes I'm fully aware that Peralta has been trending down and was beyond terrible last year. There is no need to point that out to me. My thing is we shouldn't be giving multi-year, 8 figure contracts to pitchers that are basically Peralta in his career here. If you want innings, just sign guys like Gallardo or Milone last year for next to nothing on one year commitments.

Except he's not Peralta. He's been far superior to Peralta. Wily had a good 2014 and he's been below average every year before and after. Production matters. Final results matter. And Chacin has been above average while Wily has been below average. That's an indisputable fact.

[brewmann04]

he an sinkerball pitcher interesting 2 year deal ok it bridges a gap I guess

[Outlander]

Your missing a surprising amount of detail here as to how he has outperformed him. Go on......

 

 

 

 

Since Peralta's debut.

 

Innings: 704.2 Peralta - 649 Chacin

K%: 16.7 Peralta - 16.8 Chacin

BB%: 8.4 Peralta - 8.9 Chacin

HR/9: 1.09 Peralta - .89 Chacin

LOB%: 71.0 Peralta - 72.5 Chacin

GB%: 51.2 Peralta - 46.6 Chacin

ERA: 4.48 Peralta - 4.15 Chacin

FIP: 4.42 Peralta - 4.21 Chacin

Soft Contact%: 18.1 Peralta - 17.4 Chacin

Medium Contact%: 51.7 Peralta - 50.6 Chacin

Hard Contact%: 30.5 Peralta - 32.0 Chacin

Line Drive%: 20.7 Peralta - 22.0 Chacin

 

And yes I'm fully aware that Peralta has been trending down and was beyond terrible last year. There is no need to point that out to me. My thing is we shouldn't be giving multi-year, 8 figure contracts to pitchers that are basically Peralta in his career here. If you want innings, just sign guys like Gallardo or Milone last year for next to nothing on one year commitments.

Except he's not Peralta. He's been far superior to Peralta. Wily had a good 2014 and he's been below average every year before and after. Production matters. Final results matter. And Chacin has been above average while Wily has been below average. That's an indisputable fact.

I don't think the Chacin and Peralta comparisons are good because Chacin was obviously a very good pitcher from 2010-2013. Then in 2014 he had the shoulder injury and was not the same until he started producing around June of 2017. I can see somebody being skeptical because his stuff isn't the same since his injury and has only been good for a couple of months since but Chacin was much better for much longer than Peralta so comparing careers doesn't make much sense.

[FVBrewerFan]

Your missing a surprising amount of detail here as to how he has outperformed him. Go on......

 

My thing is we shouldn't be giving multi-year, 8 figure contracts to pitchers that are basically Peralta in his career here. If you want innings, just sign guys like Gallardo or Milone last year for next to nothing on one year commitments.

 

While technically true, multi-year contract is a bit misleading. It's a two year contract that doesn't hamstring the team financially in any way. Don't get me wrong, I'm in the camp that would be fine if they didn't sign anybody this off-season. But next best thing is a short term deal like this, and he could be guy you can flip later too.

[JohnBriggs12]

He slots in the 3 spot for now. The top 4 appear set. The 5th spot is up for grabs right now. At least 3 guys in the mix there: Guerra, Gallardo, Suter and possibly more. They could still slide Hader in there too.

 

I still think they could deal for a guy like Archer too.

[brwrsfan]

Even if he sucks, this isn't that bad of a signing. Short contract, Brewers have money to spend this year and next for sure.

[rickh150]

A good 75 win team starter....

[rickh150]

A good 75 win team starter....

 

Scott Karl, Dave Burba, Doug Davis, Brandon Looper....

[danzig6767]

I'm old and still can not get over how normalized it has become for a mediocre career 4.00 ERA pitcher to get $8mil/year. No one is shocked by these numbers any more. We don't have a AAA pitcher that could put up slightly worse numbers for a lot less?

Are you fretting that by doing this signing that the Brewers could end up jumping from the lowest payroll in baseball to 29th?

 

If hypothetically the Brewers had signed Chacin for 5 million per instead of 8 million per, this would impact the team how?

 

Attanasio made a fortune off the team last year and will back a Brinks truck up to his back account in profits next season given the payroll will being near the bottom again.

 

It's a short term deal that won't prevent the team from making moves in the future, for a guy Stearns is hoping produces as a league average starter.

[liveforoctober]

A good 75 win team starter....

 

Scott Karl, Dave Burba, Doug Davis, Brandon Looper....

 

If you think this Brewers' team with Anderson, Davies, (insert name here), (insert name here), (insert name here) is going to contend for a WS crown ... I love the optimism, but don't want you running my team, with all due respect.

 

If you think this Brewers' team needs another season+ to develop its core and rearrange its roster to position itself for success... and need a 180+ inning arm to help hold this season together... yes, Chacin is a good signing. I agree with you.

[TJseven7]

26 and 27 were lost years. 28 was not pretty but showed some progress. 29 was trending back towards his normal self. He put up 650 ip while being a rockie and held a sub 1 hr/9. Yeah petco saved him?

 

Dudes a lot like Davies. Junk ball soft contact sub 4 era innings eater. 2 years at 8 mil is just fine because davies is going to get more than that from someone. Also like Davies he's going to have some days where he just doesn't have it and gets torched bad and fast. I'm actually quite ok with that. Get rocked in 6 and qs 26. 80% chance to win. I wanted a rotation built of 5 guys who pitch sub 4 era and a pen that closes the door. Dont see why chacin at 8/2 doesn't add a guy who does exactly that. Currently asking a lot of Woodruff and Suter at this point but 3 is better than 2 and in reality we are waiting for nelson and burnes (and ponce). Clearly the pen isn't there yet either but I have hopes for williams houser and Fperalta to fix that.

 

This is a solid add. Has a lot of Charlie Morton deal potential to it.

[markedman5]

Wily Peralta outperforms Chacin in a lot of categories since Peralta's major league debut. This signing sucks.

 

 

 

[danzig6767]

I don't think the Chacin and Peralta comparisons are good because Chacin was obviously a very good pitcher from 2010-2013. Then in 2014 he had the shoulder injury and was not the same until he started producing around June of 2017. I can see somebody being skeptical because his stuff isn't the same since his injury and has only been good for a couple of months since but Chacin was much better for much longer than Peralta so comparing careers doesn't make much sense.

Besides that, Peralta has been terrible for three straight years. His ugly WHIP totals.

 

1.537

1.527

1.831

 

Peralta was probably the most frustrating Brewers pitcher i can recall watching. He was big guy and blessed with a dream arm. Could throw in the mid to high 90's all game long and his slider could be filthy, but he had zero command.

[superfly]

Wily Peralta outperforms Chacin in a lot of categories since Peralta's major league debut. This signing sucks.

 

You're joking....right? Peralta has been garbage for years, not even accounting for how much time we wasted on him as an organization.

 

I'm old and still can not get over how normalized it has become for a mediocre career 4.00 ERA pitcher to get $8mil/year. No one is shocked by these numbers any more. We don't have a AAA pitcher that could put up slightly worse numbers for a lot less?

Are you fretting that by doing this signing that the Brewers could end up jumping from the lowest payroll in baseball to 29th?

 

The answer to that is most likely they would think 5 million is too expensive. If somebody isn't signing for 1 year and 1 million dollars it's paying too much. Not sure why it matters, since it isn't their money in their bank account to begin with?

 

I'll go out on a limb and say that when we get done with 2018 (provided no injury) we're going to be saying "holy crap, he is good just like Anderson now." Anderson was also a mediocre get at the time but obviously Stearns and his stat geeks saw something.

[SRB]

Fangraphs article about Chacin's platoon splits and the possibility that Stearns & Co. think they can help him improve against LHB:

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/jhoulys-chacin-will-be-a-fun-brewers-project/

[DR28]

Really liking this move the more I read about it.

 

I say Hader gets a shot at the rotation until Jimmy returns. I would love to see this rotation come opening day...

 

Anderson

Davies

Chacin

Hader

Woodruff

 

Then once Jimmy comes back Hader goes back to bullpen... Unless injuries, etc.

 

I would really love to see Addison Reed and Tony Watson or Kevin Siegrist added yet.

[JosephC]

Understandable why some people would flip out over some of those splits last year but I think this is a pretty solid signing. Started out in Colorado and after all those years there he was only giving up 0.8 HR/9. His sinker/slider repertoire seems like a decent fit for Miller Park. He has a five pitch mix. To me the biggest concern is the left/right splits. The Fangraphs article talked about moving him around on the pitching rubber. I almost wonder if the Brewers will want to scrap his approach against lefties and maybe go with something else (4-seam + change-up)? Who knows but there seems to be a lot to work with here. Certainly can understand why Stearns was interested.

[markedman5]

Heyman says it's done. 2 years 15 million plus.

 

Announced tomorrow

[MrTPlush]

Jhoulys Chacin and Yovani Gallardo in the same week. Haha what is going on Stearns. Is it 2011, seriously.

 

Jhoulys Chacin is an interesting guy. I guess it should be interesting.

[rickh150]

A good 75 win team starter....

 

Scott Karl, Dave Burba, Doug Davis, Brandon Looper....

 

If you think this Brewers' team with Anderson, Davies, (insert name here), (insert name here), (insert name here) is going to contend for a WS crown ... I love the optimism, but don't want you running my team, with all due respect.

 

If you think this Brewers' team needs another season+ to develop its core and rearrange its roster to position itself for success... and need a 180+ inning arm to help hold this season together... yes, Chacin is a good signing. I agree with you.

 

 

Hold this season together? What does that mean? Be .500ish? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You don't want the team to go for it and add a couple of FA or trade prospects because we are not ready to contend for playofffs this year. And you also want them to sign middling starters for 7.5 mil a year instead of playing a multitude of young cheap farm arms that could be ready or seasoned for future seasons.

 

What actually could be happening.... Stearns sees playoffs this year as an actual possibility. He believes this makes the team better. This move looks pointless to me and many UNLESS a big move or two is still coming, and Yo/Chacin are in to give veteran depth to the back of rotation and not as a stop gap.. The more this offseason develops, the more I can envision big moves still coming. If not, I question the recent signings of Yo/ Chacin. Like everyone, we didn't see this coming.

[Jenkins5]

Fangraphs had a great article with about him today. I admit I haven't followed him closely but was shocked when seeing all his splits lefty/righty for him. He just owns righties and lefties t-off on him. They mentioned maybe the Brewers should make same change with him like they did with Anderson to help with that by moving over on the mound against lefties. His slider is nasty vs righties! Sadly doesn't really have a reliable pitch away for lefties to counter.

 

I have no complaints. His April was close to Davies. Got blown up twice. Rest of the season he only had 1 more game of 7 runs, 2 of 5, 3 of 4, and had 24 games of 3 or less runs (6 of 3, 6 of 2, 7 of 1, 5 of 0). A starter in the middle of the rotation who gives up 3 or less runs 75% of the time and 1 or less 38% of the time is fine by me. Not flashy or makes us a contender but solid pick up.