J.T. Realmuto

[KeithStone53151]

Looks like we ruined any chance for anyone to get Realmuto at a reasonable price....https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1059840607504482304

 

So they are going to play the game scared, and end up keeping Realmuto for too long and getting far less in return. That's their choice I guess. I just don't see the haul coming that they are seemingly expecting.

[tmwiese55]

Generally speaking I think most of the proposals in here are way too much to offer. It seems when we're going for someone we have to massively overpay but when we were the ones trading away Lucroy we had to come up with reasons why teams wouldn't give us huge hauls. IMO there is no way you give up Huira, Burnes, Woodruff. If that ends it, so be it. Long story short, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul by trading away players needed on your MLB roster this year. Something starting with Peralta/Nottingham and then adding in more of course. Maybe they'll value a depth MLB starter like Anderson/Davies to help them compete a bit. I could see Ray but do they need more OF prospects, doubt it. If it's not enough, so be it. No one else is giving them MLB ready prospects such as Huira, Burnes, Woodruff and for a team like MKE those are the most sought after commodities we can have.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Generally speaking I think most of the proposals in here are way too much to offer. It seems when we're going for someone we have to massively overpay but when we were the ones trading away Lucroy we had to come up with reasons why teams wouldn't give us huge hauls. IMO there is no way you give up Huira, Burnes, Woodruff. If that ends it, so be it. Long story short, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul by trading away players needed on your MLB roster this year. Something starting with Peralta/Nottingham and then adding in more of course. Maybe they'll value a depth MLB starter like Anderson/Davies to help them compete a bit. I could see Ray but do they need more OF prospects, doubt it. If it's not enough, so be it. No one else is giving them MLB ready prospects such as Huira, Burnes, Woodruff and for a team like MKE those are the most sought after commodities we can have.

 

Yep ... I could see Peralta with Nottingham or Henry and then someone like Turang. I am by no means advocating that the Brewers empty out the upper minors in this deal, but I think many of us are underestimating the value some of our lower minors guys have.

[KeithStone53151]

Do you all remember all the years where guys like Wily Peralta, Tyler Thornburg, Taylor Jungmann, Johnny Hellweg, etc were the elite arms in our system? I don't know that we've ever had such a collection of young, impact arms in the system. Compare Hader/Burnes/Woodruff/Peralta/Brown to other systems under 25 arms. Very few teams can even touch this collection of arms. Young impact arms are the most rare commodity in baseball, and we have 5 good ones. Having a guy like that keeps you from trying to get lucky by spending $39 million on Chatwood...or paying $100+ million for a high end pitcher that is past his prime. We should not even consider trading any 2 of those guys unless it's for Degrom.

 

I'll agree with tmwiese that we should be trying to get value from someone like Anderson, Guerra, Davies, etc in any trade with the Marlins and avoid giving up too much value in young, impact talents. If the Marlins want the moon, they can wait and watch as nobody else bites and Realmuto's value wittles away to a comp pick while they rebuild.

[wallus]

I'd be willing to do a Peralta, Woodruff, Ray and Nottingham deal. Other than that, just sign a free agent.

[tmwiese55]

Pretty sure I wouldn't even go that far. Two of our three top MLB ready pitchers and our 2nd best position player prospect who's timeline lines up quite well with Braun's exit.

[wallus]

Pretty sure I wouldn't even go that far. Two of our three top MLB ready pitchers and our 2nd best position player prospect who's timeline lines up quite well with Braun's exit.

 

All of those guys have warts and the bidding will be pretty strong I think. I doubt that package gets it done to be honest.

[KeithStone53151]

Pretty sure I wouldn't even go that far. Two of our three top MLB ready pitchers and our 2nd best position player prospect who's timeline lines up quite well with Braun's exit.

 

All of those guys have warts and the bidding will be pretty strong I think. I doubt that package gets it done to be honest.

 

Which of Hiura, Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff have "warts"? Ray has contact issues that I'd consider a wart, but the other 4...now you're just making stuff up.

[wallus]

Pretty sure I wouldn't even go that far. Two of our three top MLB ready pitchers and our 2nd best position player prospect who's timeline lines up quite well with Braun's exit.

 

All of those guys have warts and the bidding will be pretty strong I think. I doubt that package gets it done to be honest.

 

Which of Hiura, Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff have "warts"? Ray has contact issues that I'd consider a wart, but the other 4...now you're just making stuff up.

 

Peralta throwing strikes, Woodruff quite possibly is just a bullpen guy, Ray has contact issues and Nottingham might not hit enough. The others I didn't mention so not sure why you included them.

[And That]

Peralta throwing strikes

Peralta throws strikes. Using Pitch Info data from Fangraphs, had he qualified for the ERA title, he would have been 16th amongst MLB starters in Zone% (percentage of pitches thrown in strike zone). His Zone% was 50.8%; MLB starter average was 48.1%. There might be a question about quality strikes or that he relies so heavily on one pitch, but he fills the zone pretty well.

[KeithStone53151]

Peralta throwing strikes, Woodruff quite possibly is just a bullpen guy, Ray has contact issues and Nottingham might not hit enough. The others I didn't mention so not sure why you included them.

 

So Peralta isn't a finished product at age 22, therefore he has warts? And that version of Woodruff we saw from August-October would have had success either starting or relieving. If he carries that into 2019, he'll be a very good starter. And generally speaking, there are maybe 5 prospects in baseball that don't have warts. Eloy Jimenez and Kyle Tucker are poor outfield defenders. Jesus Luzardo has command issues. Jo Adell strikes out too much. Mackenzie Gore's 3rd and 4th pitches aren't MLB caliber offerings yet. Should their respective organizations jump to trade them because they have warts?

 

It honestly baffles me that so many people are so quick to want to trade these arms we've acquired...and don't remember how dire our minor league pitching situation has been year after year after year up until 2-3 years ago...when Hader/Burnes/Woodruff showed up. We finally start developing arms and everyone wants to quick trade them. It makes no sense.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

Peralta throwing strikes

Peralta throws strikes. Using Pitch Info data from Fangraphs, had he qualified for the ERA title, he would have been 16th amongst MLB starters in Zone% (percentage of pitches thrown in strike zone). His Zone% was 50.8%; MLB starter average was 48.1%. There might be a question about quality strikes or that he relies so heavily on one pitch, but he fills the zone pretty well.

 

Peralta is 2 years younger than Burnes, 3 years younger than Woodruff, while posting more dominant numbers than both in the majors yet people continue to add him in trades like he's a throwaway piece. It's mind-blowing. Thankfully he's going nowhere.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Peralta throwing strikes

Peralta throws strikes. Using Pitch Info data from Fangraphs, had he qualified for the ERA title, he would have been 16th amongst MLB starters in Zone% (percentage of pitches thrown in strike zone). His Zone% was 50.8%; MLB starter average was 48.1%. There might be a question about quality strikes or that he relies so heavily on one pitch, but he fills the zone pretty well.

 

Peralta is 2 years younger than Burnes, 3 years younger than Woodruff, while posting more dominant numbers than both in the majors yet people continue to add him in trades like he's a throwaway piece. It's mind-blowing. Thankfully he's going nowhere.

 

No one is treating Peralta like a throwaway piece. He's the headliner in a potential trade for possibly the best catcher in baseball. Personally, I don't think he's going anywhere, but of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta, I think most would say that Peralta is the most expendable in a potential deal.

[tmwiese55]

Peralta throwing strikes

Peralta throws strikes. Using Pitch Info data from Fangraphs, had he qualified for the ERA title, he would have been 16th amongst MLB starters in Zone% (percentage of pitches thrown in strike zone). His Zone% was 50.8%; MLB starter average was 48.1%. There might be a question about quality strikes or that he relies so heavily on one pitch, but he fills the zone pretty well.

 

Peralta is 2 years younger than Burnes, 3 years younger than Woodruff, while posting more dominant numbers than both in the majors yet people continue to add him in trades like he's a throwaway piece. It's mind-blowing. Thankfully he's going nowhere.

 

Yea it's not like I want to trade him or that I view him as a throwaway. It's that I know you have to give up something legit and he is legit. Then compare to the other two legit P pieces and they are just more 'prototypical' starter in their builds and stuff. Basically they're not tiny and only throw low 90s. And while they also mostly only threw 2 pitches in MLB this year their supposed scouting reports say there should be more pitches from them to be traditional-ish type starters. We saw Peralata as a starter and he only has the two Ps. So, just saying if I haaaad to trade one it would be him for those reasons. That said, I'd love to keep him as well and if he develops a changeup to go with his violent deliver that it would be devastating and a huge addition.

[wallus]

Peralta throwing strikes, Woodruff quite possibly is just a bullpen guy, Ray has contact issues and Nottingham might not hit enough. The others I didn't mention so not sure why you included them.

 

So Peralta isn't a finished product at age 22, therefore he has warts? And that version of Woodruff we saw from August-October would have had success either starting or relieving. If he carries that into 2019, he'll be a very good starter. And generally speaking, there are maybe 5 prospects in baseball that don't have warts. Eloy Jimenez and Kyle Tucker are poor outfield defenders. Jesus Luzardo has command issues. Jo Adell strikes out too much. Mackenzie Gore's 3rd and 4th pitches aren't MLB caliber offerings yet. Should their respective organizations jump to trade them because they have warts?

 

It honestly baffles me that so many people are so quick to want to trade these arms we've acquired...and don't remember how dire our minor league pitching situation has been year after year after year up until 2-3 years ago...when Hader/Burnes/Woodruff showed up. We finally start developing arms and everyone wants to quick trade them. It makes no sense.

 

Realmuto is an excellent player at a position where there aren't many available. He is going to command a lot of assets in a trade. The four guys I proposed all had good years last year and have value. I feel it would be a good time to sell high on them just like we did last year for Yelich. I have a lot of faith in Burnes and Brown to be impact pitchers in the near future.

 

It baffles me that posters don't realize that you can't just throw lopsided trade proposals out there like they would be accepted.

[tmwiese55]

Well I think it's that what was proposed was lopsided the other direction, in our view. IMO, that package proposed is significantly better than what we gave for Yelich who had 5 years of control vs 2 years of JT. And astronomically better than what we got for Lucroy, even though he had a near all star level reliever attached to him as well. I think what those throwing out these huge packages should see is that other guys haven't gotten this much in recent years, plus if they had offers comparable on the table they'd have taken them already. MIA can hold out all they want but ever day that goes by lowers his value.

[KeithStone53151]

No one is treating Peralta like a throwaway piece. He's the headliner in a potential trade for possibly the best catcher in baseball. Personally, I don't think he's going anywhere, but of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta, I think most would say that Peralta is the most expendable in a potential deal.

 

The majority of offers have included Hiura, Peralta, and Nottingham...along with a 4th piece of varying value. So he's not the centerpiece in the majority of offers.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

I think most would say that Peralta is the most expendable in a potential deal.

 

That's specifically what I'm referring to. Given his age and dominance, he should be looked at as the least expendable of the 3. If people are going to be creating all these hypothetical trades, you'd think they have Woodruff in there as the headlining arm. I've been around sports forums long enough to know that if people realized what the Brewers had in Peralta he'd be on most people's untouchables list. Instead just about every trade proposal has him name in it. It's astonishing.

 

Personally, given the multiple inning arms needed to build the type of 12-man staff I know is coming, I don't think they should or would trade any of those 3. But if they think they have enough coverage, I believe Woodruff would be the one they'd move.

[tmwiese55]

I think most would say that Peralta is the most expendable in a potential deal.

 

That's specifically what I'm referring to. Given his age and dominance, he should be looked at as the least expendable of the 3. If people are going to be creating all these hypothetical trades, you'd think they have Woodruff in there as the headlining arm. I've been around sports forums long enough to know that if people realized what the Brewers had in Peralta he'd be on most people's untouchables list. Instead just about every trade proposal has him name in it. It's astonishing.

 

Personally, given the multiple inning arms needed to build the type of 12-man staff I know is coming, I don't think they should or would trade any of those 3. But if they think they have enough coverage, I believe Woodruff would be the one they'd move.

 

that's a fair take to view Woody as the most expendable due to the age difference and that they seemed to value him lowest this season based on how they were used. From myself (and I'd guess others too who have used Peralta), I think I laid it well a few posts back but beyond that a lot comes down to Wood/Burnes certainly look the part of workhouse starting pitchers whereas Peralta doesn't. So people are a lot more skeptical that what he did last year was fluky and think we might be selling high, whereas Burnes/Wood completely look legit. Plus being able to throw 5-6 MPH faster is a big deal for long term success. Again, I love Peralta too so I'm not trying to rip him, just saying why I'd pick him of the 3 as the one to I'd trade if I had to (and for top 2-3 C in the game, you have to give something up).

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think most would say that Peralta is the most expendable in a potential deal.

 

That's specifically what I'm referring to. Given his age and dominance, he should be looked at as the least expendable of the 3. If people are going to be creating all these hypothetical trades, you'd think they have Woodruff in there as the headlining arm. I've been around sports forums long enough to know that if people realized what the Brewers had in Peralta he'd be on most people's untouchables list. Instead just about every trade proposal has him name in it. It's astonishing.

 

Personally, given the multiple inning arms needed to build the type of 12-man staff I know is coming, I don't think they should or would trade any of those 3. But if they think they have enough coverage, I believe Woodruff would be the one they'd move.

 

That would make sense from a recency point of view, as Woodruff's dominant showings in September and the playoffs are fresh on other GM's minds. But ... those dominant showings are also exciting for Brewer fans. Peralta also looked great in his playoff experience, but it was much more abbreviated than Woodruff's. Most fans are going to point to Freddy's up-and-down regular season results. There were games where he looked like he had TOR potential, and others where he had trouble locating, which is completely understandable for a 22-year-old rookie. I don't see how it's astonishing that he's being discussed in potential deals.

 

I wish you would lay out why you believe Peralta is a future TOR guy and an untouchable, because right now it appears that you are talking down to those posters who don't quite see it that way.

[KeithStone53151]

Peralta throwing strikes, Woodruff quite possibly is just a bullpen guy, Ray has contact issues and Nottingham might not hit enough. The others I didn't mention so not sure why you included them.

 

So Peralta isn't a finished product at age 22, therefore he has warts? And that version of Woodruff we saw from August-October would have had success either starting or relieving. If he carries that into 2019, he'll be a very good starter. And generally speaking, there are maybe 5 prospects in baseball that don't have warts. Eloy Jimenez and Kyle Tucker are poor outfield defenders. Jesus Luzardo has command issues. Jo Adell strikes out too much. Mackenzie Gore's 3rd and 4th pitches aren't MLB caliber offerings yet. Should their respective organizations jump to trade them because they have warts?

 

It honestly baffles me that so many people are so quick to want to trade these arms we've acquired...and don't remember how dire our minor league pitching situation has been year after year after year up until 2-3 years ago...when Hader/Burnes/Woodruff showed up. We finally start developing arms and everyone wants to quick trade them. It makes no sense.

 

Realmuto is an excellent player at a position where there aren't many available. He is going to command a lot of assets in a trade. The four guys I proposed all had good years last year and have value. I feel it would be a good time to sell high on them just like we did last year for Yelich. I have a lot of faith in Burnes and Brown to be impact pitchers in the near future.

 

It baffles me that posters don't realize that you can't just throw lopsided trade proposals out there like they would be accepted.

 

The leap from AAA to MLB is the biggest leap, for obvious reasons. I don't think anybody has proposed some sort of throw away offer, but all of Hiura, Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff would probably be top 50 prospects if they were eligible considering their MLB success. Hiura will likely come in somewhere in the early teens when new lists come out. Last year when Realmuto had more value, the Nationals scoffed at the Robles/Soto asking price...and the Braves scoffed at giving up Acuna. What makes you think someone will offer a comparable prospect now, as Realmuto's value has gone down?

 

There is no history of a team giving up a massive prospect haul for a catcher. The best haul I can remember is the Lucroy trade...which included Brinson, Ortiz, and Cordell. That trade included Jeffress though, it's probably safe to assume Ortiz for Jeffress and Lucroy for Brinson/Cordell. Brinson was in the 50s or 60s at this point and was coming off injury and struggling in AA. Cordell was an older prospect having a solid, unspectacular season in AA. Maybe Ray and Erceg is the closest comparable we have. Ray isn't what Brinson was, but there's a pretty big gap between the 3 pitchers and hiura to the rest of our prospects. Maybe you have to add a 3rd small piece to equal out the value but it's close. Realmuto obviously has a bit more value than Lucroy. Worse contract, slightly more team control, probably a slightly worse player overall but it's close. The market is also a bit different with less catching available. All those factors don't add up to Realmuto being worth 2 guys that would never have been included in the Lucroy trade. It's honestly not even close.

 

My trade for Realmuto would probably include Peralta/Woodruff+, but I would also want a bullpen arm or some other less valuable piece back as well. Could ask about Dietrich or Steckenrider, include one of them with Realmuto for Peralta/Woodruff + Nottingham + Davies or Anderson or Thames or Santana. Something like that which includes an MLB piece, I'm sure they'd have some interest in an MLB piece as you can't field a full team of prospects...would need to ask about which one.

[tmwiese55]

If you were going to a larger deal, Starlin Castro wouldn't be a bad guy coming back. Saves them $$, which I'm sure they'd like and would allow MKE to just let Schoop go (basically a wash $$ for us in that sense) or trade him for whatever they can get.

[wallus]

Peralta/Woodruff, Nottingham, Davies or Anderson or Thames or Santana?? Come on now.... this should be in blue.

 

This reminds me of George Constanza from Seinfeld “I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn’t have to give up that much.”

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

No one is treating Peralta like a throwaway piece. He's the headliner in a potential trade for possibly the best catcher in baseball. Personally, I don't think he's going anywhere, but of Burnes, Woodruff or Peralta, I think most would say that Peralta is the most expendable in a potential deal.

 

The majority of offers have included Hiura, Peralta, and Nottingham...along with a 4th piece of varying value. So he's not the centerpiece in the majority of offers.

 

There's been a few offering that kind of package, but those have mostly been met by replies saying its way too much. I think if it happens, it would be Hiura or Peralta, not both. I think both those guys likely have more value right now than anyone in the Yelich package.

[tmwiese55]

Peralta/Woodruff, Nottingham, Davies or Anderson or Thames or Santana?? Come on now.... this should be in blue.

 

This reminds me of George Constanza from Seinfeld “I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn’t have to give up that much.”

 

I haven't seen anyone throw that specifically out. But, well, that package is better than what we got for Lucroy + JJ in my opinion.