Anyone else losing their patience?

[Jenkins5]

Also, no deals Brewers make in 2018 will make them Dodgers, Nationals, Cubs etc. We will not be an elite team this year. I could care less if we only get a wildcard. This still not our year. Trust the process and hopefully by 2020 we have a team that is right there with the rest of them. 2019 I still believe will be even we take the next step and get more aggressive.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Do you ant Stearns fired?? The title of this thread is odd.

[adambr2]

Is is just me or is Neil Walker maybe the most overrated and valued 2B. I really just don't think he is as good as his contracts make him out to be. He should be an All-Star for prices he gets paid. He has been steady for 9 years but has never hit .300 (close first year) .280 twice but usually a .260/.270 hitter. Has hit HRs but outside of the two 23 HR seasons, he is usually around 15. Is a solid .775 OPS career guy but that is not elite at 2b. He doesn't run at all and never has. He has WAR's over 2.0 7x over career but only in 2013/2014 did he post in the 3's. Defensively he is solid and average.

 

I just can not justify giving him 10 million a year def over his 32-34 year old seasons. He is past his prime so hard to expect massive seasons coming from him. Again not taking anything away from him but not sure we need to pay him that kind of money. I'd rather deal for Merrefield or see Dubon for 9.5 million cheaper. Even Villar over putting quality money we could use more effectively down the road into Walker

 

Not really. By no means is he an elite middle infielder but he's been steady and solid for years. In 7 straight years he's never had a WAR under 2.1. You know what you're getting with Walker and it's not bad. I don't think you're wrong about Neil -- he's only decent, not great, but I think you're underestimating what 'decent' costs these days.

 

I wouldn't go 3 years on Walker, but I'd be totally fine with giving him 2/20 and I think he'd be a pretty good value at that price. I'd also be totally fine going with not giving him that and going in an entirely different direction like giving Villar another shot.

[brewcrewdue80]

Is is just me or is Neil Walker maybe the most overrated and valued 2B. I really just don't think he is as good as his contracts make him out to be. He should be an All-Star for prices he gets paid. He has been steady for 9 years but has never hit .300 (close first year) .280 twice but usually a .260/.270 hitter. Has hit HRs but outside of the two 23 HR seasons, he is usually around 15. Is a solid .775 OPS career guy but that is not elite at 2b. He doesn't run at all and never has. He has WAR's over 2.0 7x over career but only in 2013/2014 did he post in the 3's. Defensively he is solid and average.

 

I just can not justify giving him 10 million a year def over his 32-34 year old seasons. He is past his prime so hard to expect massive seasons coming from him. Again not taking anything away from him but not sure we need to pay him that kind of money. I'd rather deal for Merrefield or see Dubon for 9.5 million cheaper. Even Villar over putting quality money we could use more effectively down the road into Walker

 

In Walker it is consistent BA and the OB BB-Ks I think the love is about. High Floor about equal to his ceiling. I don't blame you on not wanting to pay 10million or more for 3 years. He's under 115games each of last 2 seasons and aging. You also deal with the fact we don't need a 2b most likely beyond this season. You need a deal with Walker to be friendly enough to likely trade or just a 1year deal overpaying him so you don't have to deal with a 2nd year contract situation.

[Lathund]

If you consider that 1 WAR on the market costs about $8-9m, even 3/30 wouldn't necessarily be a bad move. In his 8 full seasons he as averaged ~2.5 WAR. To pay for a 3/30 contract, he essentially only needs to produce 4 WAR over three years, or 1.3 WAR/season. Or even just two 2 WAR seasons. Injuries can derail this of course, but if he stays reasonably healthy he should live up to that deal fairly easily.

 

Now, I don't necessarily think that's a great idea, as I don't think the extra millions we pay will be worth it over Villar/Sogard/Perez/Dubon/Hiura (Or whoever else will get time at 2B over the next few years) and I'd rather see that money spent elsewhere. The deal itself is solid, it just might not suit the Brewers right now.

[TJseven7]

Yeah I'm officially annoyed that we've done nothing. No rule 5. No adds (i don't count yo) no traded out talent and random prospects to look into. Not even broxton for fliers. Nadda. Don't want or need a blockbuster trade that empties our farm or something drastic. Just something that isn't a "camp body."

 

Instead we are sitting on our new carter or scooter in broxton/villar/perez and nobody wants them either. Just soo boring.

[bill hAll Star]

Cubs brass just landed in Dallas to talk to Yu Darvish. If they sign him, just wait this thing out. Too much of a chance we'd lose any arms race we'd get into.

[KeithStone53151]

Cubs brass just landed in Dallas to talk to Yu Darvish. If they sign him, just wait this thing out. Too much of a chance we'd lose any arms race we'd get into.

 

It's not like we can just wait and we'll eventually be the only team in the NL Central with good players. When the Cubs window closes and they go into rebuild, the cardinals/pirates/reds will still be there and have good teams.

[bill hAll Star]

Cubs brass just landed in Dallas to talk to Yu Darvish. If they sign him, just wait this thing out. Too much of a chance we'd lose any arms race we'd get into.

 

It's not like we can just wait and we'll eventually be the only team in the NL Central with good players. When the Cubs window closes and they go into rebuild, the cardinals/pirates/reds will still be there and have good teams.

 

We're not turning our team into a 95 win team this year without decimating the farm system.

 

Yes, those other teams will also have good teams, but we'll be at a point when all of the recent prospects are in the majors and we have a wave waiting after them plus money to spend.

 

If the Reds turn into a powerhouse by 2020, so be it. It will be a great race. I'm just not dealing prospects for shorter-term control players to try to beat a high payroll juggernaut for 2019. Heck, we still may beat them but I'm not getting into an arms race. There's a good chance that we're looking back in 8-10 years with zero playoff appearances if we do that.

[NievesNoNO]

I'm not really losing patience. This is such an interesting time of year to be a baseball fan. I really don't care what path they take as long as there's a plan. The roster is not really good enough for a single acquisition or signing to get them over the top. In my ideal world one of two things would happen: 1) Trade for Archer using Brinson + minor league talent and overpay for Darvish. 2) Lay back and continue to stock prospects maybe trade Broxton for a piece or two. Give Brinson CF and Hader a starting spot and see how things progress and let Villar try to regain some value at 2B.

 

I'm leaning towards option two. I just don't want to see something in between where they give up significant talent but don't do enough to be relevant.

[Oldcity]

Your option 2 looks great to me.

[bill hAll Star]

Your option 2 looks great to me.

 

Agree. Sky isn't falling for me, but if the Cubs make one more bold move, I just think that waiting it out one more year to see what we have makes sense. That isn't to say we still couldn't compete with the Cubs anyways. They could still sign Neil Walker, one of the expensive pitchers, or a reliever and I'm cool with it. Just don't mess with the farm system.

 

I think 2019 we'll either have a very known, promising group and proceed accordingly or sitting back in 2018 will be a blessing in disguise if we find out that some of the guys like Shaw or Thames were fool's gold and that we need to retool anyways.

[stoutdude04]

Your option 2 looks great to me.

 

Agree. Sky isn't falling for me, but if the Cubs make one more bold move, I just think that waiting it out one more year to see what we have makes sense. That isn't to say we still couldn't compete with the Cubs anyways. They could still sign Neil Walker, one of the expensive pitchers, or a reliever and I'm cool with it. Just don't mess with the farm system.

 

I think 2019 we'll either have a very known, promising group and proceed accordingly or sitting back in 2018 will be a blessing in disguise if we find out that some of the guys like Shaw or Thames were fool's gold and that we need to retool anyways.

 

This is my feeling as well. I think the success of last season(which was great) may be hard to replicate. The offense was pathetic the 2nd half and I have a feeling that that is closer to the true talent level they truly had.

[Humans Need Water]

I still haven't lost my patience

[superfly]

People act like the Cubs are some overwhelming force. We should lay down just because they're good? Should the Bucks lay down because the Cavs are in their division as well until Lebron gets old? They won (6) more games than the Brewers last year and could well have lost the division if our bullpen hadn't been a trainwreck in the 1st half. They were dismantled by the Dodgers in the playoffs.

 

They're good. The Cardinals are forever in the picture. It's not going to change. The Cubs will just buy talent like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers do when they get in a so called bind in a few years. Let's worry about 2018 and then we'll worry about 2021.

 

God i'm sick of hearing people cheer for losing or plans 4 years down the road. Are you even fans? A couple upgrades here and there isn't going to compromise the future. A 2 year 10 million dollar contract to a reliever isn't going to "hamstring" the organization, nor is 2/20 to Neil Walker or anyone else of his caliber.

 

So to answer the question, yes, I am losing my patience. But it's not with David Stearns.

[Oldcity]

Nobody is cheering for losing. If we were, we'd be wanting the Brewers to do what the Marlins are doing. We prefer patience, which is thankfully what David Stearns also prefers.

[reillymcshane]

I'm not really losing patience. This is such an interesting time of year to be a baseball fan. I really don't care what path they take as long as there's a plan. The roster is not really good enough for a single acquisition or signing to get them over the top. In my ideal world one of two things would happen: 1) Trade for Archer using Brinson + minor league talent and overpay for Darvish. 2) Lay back and continue to stock prospects maybe trade Broxton for a piece or two. Give Brinson CF and Hader a starting spot and see how things progress and let Villar try to regain some value at 2B.

 

I'm leaning towards option two. I just don't want to see something in between where they give up significant talent but don't do enough to be relevant.

Option 2 is what I want. If things break our way, we can be in the race. It's about trusting the development of the players you believe in. It doesn't mean we can't make any moves, but I don't want to overreact to what others are doing. I'm good with going to good arms like Taylor Williams and Houser in the bullpen - even if I wouldn't mind the signing of a good reliever. I'm good with giving Villar another chance at 2B. And keeping with Thames/Aguilar at 1B. And Pina/Vogt behind the plate. Sure we can upgrade many of these positions in FA - but I'm good with what we got going forward.

 

I think the big area we will try to yet address is starting pitching. I'm guessing we make a play for one of Arietta/Darvish/Cobb/Lynn. Or make some deal (probably not Archer) for a decent starter (without giving away too much minor league depth).

[clancyphile]

I've had some mild frustration, but only mild.

 

Ohtani was one I wanted, but his UCL issue has me feeling the Crew dodged a big disappointment. He may be available sooner than we think, and reasonably cheap.

 

Shopping Santana is somewhat surprising (I think Aguilar or Thames is a better option to shop), but with Stokes, Brinson, and Phillips, if Santana brings a TOR piece, the Crew has the OF depth in the system to adjust. Would feel better if the Crew had re-signed Michael Reed instead of seeing him go to ATL.

 

Gallardo looks like a low-risk deal, and again, he's more of buying time for one of Burnes/Ortiz/Ventura/Derby or he becomes a multi-inning bullpen arm.

 

I am content to use 2018 to see what young players can do. Suter, Woodruff, Santana, Phillips, Arcia, Villar, Perez, Knebel, and some others have really flashed potential. I think it's not a bad idea to see if they're for real. I'd love to have the "problem" of deciding between Villar in 2016 form and Keston Hiura. If the Brent Suter of June and July 2017 is the real Suter, that's arguably a #2/#3 starter.

 

I'll take a regression of 5 to 10 wins if it helps answer some of the questions about the guys on the farm. So, I'm not looking for the blockbuster. I'm looking to maybe clear space for some of the young players.

 

EDIT: My off-season plan DID include going for Lucroy - and I still would, if only to improve catcher. Lucroy/Pina beats Pina/Vogt hands-down, IMO.

[bill hAll Star]

People act like the Cubs are some overwhelming force. We should lay down just because they're good? Should the Bucks lay down because the Cavs are in their division as well until Lebron gets old? They won (6) more games than the Brewers last year and could well have lost the division if our bullpen hadn't been a trainwreck in the 1st half. They were dismantled by the Dodgers in the playoffs.

 

They're good. The Cardinals are forever in the picture. It's not going to change. The Cubs will just buy talent like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers do when they get in a so called bind in a few years. Let's worry about 2018 and then we'll worry about 2021.

 

God i'm sick of hearing people cheer for losing or plans 4 years down the road. Are you even fans? A couple upgrades here and there isn't going to compromise the future. A 2 year 10 million dollar contract to a reliever isn't going to "hamstring" the organization, nor is 2/20 to Neil Walker or anyone else of his caliber.

 

So to answer the question, yes, I am losing my patience. But it's not with David Stearns.

 

I'm not cheering to tank. We've crossed that bridge. If various injuries occur or things go south and we're 40-65 at the trade deadline, then yes, I will cheer for the #1 pick for just 2018...but if we aren't getting close to competitive in 2019 then I will begin to get impatient.

[pacopete4]

As a Brewers fan, if you haven't lost your patience already, when will you? This team has done nothing but lose. We can talk about staying on course with the plan and yada-yada-yada. It's all great and hope it works out but patience? Meh, that went out the window a long time ago.

[Oldcity]

As a Brewers fan, if you haven't lost your patience already, when will you? This team has done nothing but lose.

 

They just outperformed their PECOTA projection by ten games and missed the playoffs by a game. What are you talking about?

[pacopete4]

As a Brewers fan, if you haven't lost your patience already, when will you? This team has done nothing but lose.

 

They just outperformed their PECOTA projection by ten games and missed the playoffs by a game. What are you talking about?

 

I'm talking about actually winning. Getting to the postseason more than four times would be great. And eventually actually winning a World Series. I get being happy with last season, I am. But to pretend like Brewers fans should just be alright with how things have gone over the course of the franchise is just nuts to me.

[KeithStone53151]

I would say my attitude at this point is more "bored" than losing patience. Everything is getting to a standstill because Boras is a prick and overpricing his players to a preposterous degree. $200 million for Arrieta/Martinez, yeah I'll have what he's having. The delay in free agency is likely delaying many trades that Stearns is hoping to make.

[TooLiveBrew]

I'm another who appreciates Stearns's approach & willingness to wait things out. I don't think our season will come down to one relief pitcher spot.

 

That said, yes it's also boring since we don't get to know the conversations going on behind the scenes. I bet there are plenty of exciting discussions so far with teams about trades, & with free agents. Someone mentioned it already, but Stearns seems to keep things very quiet, which is another thing I like about him.

[FVBrewerFan]

As a Brewers fan, if you haven't lost your patience already, when will you? This team has done nothing but lose.

 

They just outperformed their PECOTA projection by ten games and missed the playoffs by a game. What are you talking about?

 

I'm talking about actually winning. Getting to the postseason more than four times would be great. And eventually actually winning a World Series. I get being happy with last season, I am. But to pretend like Brewers fans should just be alright with how things have gone over the course of the franchise is just nuts to me.

 

I don't think anyone is "alright" with only 4 post-season appearances and no WS title. Not sure where that notion is coming from, I don't get that impression from anyone here.

 

In fact, this is exactly why some of us don't want to make the same mistakes that led to this dismal history. Stearns is building a team that can contend consistently, and win at least one WS. He is not perfect, but they are definitely marching in the right direction.