Anyone else losing their patience?

[Fear The Chorizo]

So now people want Stearns to go out and find another David Riske to sign?

 

Priority should be to bolster the rotation via offseason trade, then use excess prospects to try and acquire relief help as needed at this year's deadline, when it's easier to assess which available veteran relievers are having great years to go after.

[bill hAll Star]

What happened to the Royals thread?

[TURBO]

What happened to the Royals thread?

 

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36142

[bill hAll Star]

What happened to the Royals thread?

 

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36142

 

There was like a 2-3 page discussion on Duffy and Merrifield along with it that disappeared and it was under a different title.

[Eye Black]

What happened to the Royals thread?

 

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36142

I think he actually is looking for this one: Royals Trading Partners? - Danny Duffy, Whit Merrifield

 

Merged the two threads discussing Danny Duffy and Whit Merrifield into one thread.

[bill hAll Star]

What happened to the Royals thread?

 

viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36142

I think he actually is looking for this one: Royals Trading Partners? - Danny Duffy, Whit Merrifield

 

Merged the two threads discussing Danny Duffy and Whit Merrifield into one thread.

 

Yeah, there it is. I must have been trying to access it while they were being merged or just clicking on the one that pointed to the old thread.

[HighHeat19]

Wow, Stearns puts together a team last year of no names/retreads and the Brewers play out of their mind. Now everyone wants to go back to the Doug Melvin stage and overpay for pitching and 1 year wonders.

 

Stearns has done nothing but make great moves from a strategic standpoint. He also said that when he got here he was going to build a franchise to win on a consistent basis and that the talent will be from within the organization's farm system.

 

So I don't know what all the fuss is. He is doing exactly what he said he was going to do. He also shows positive patience and does not make impulsive purchases. And quite frankly, winter meetings have always been a time to get the ball rolling, with the main transactions taking place shortly thereafter. Seems to me that the Brewers have been checking the prices on everyone and seeing what their dollar can buy them.

 

Stearns so far has shown that he is not wasteful with money and takes due diligence in what has value and what does not. I believe this also has a lot to do with the application of sabermetrics/analytics that the Brewers and incorporate into their decision making processes. Unlike Melvin, who just threw outrageous amounts of $ at crap pitching just because that was a perceived need.

 

Just let Stearns do what Stearns does, o ye of little faith. There's a reason why we're here on brewerfan.net and Stearns isn't.

[DR28]

We're going after guys like J.J. Hoover... Oh boy, book the playoff tickets now.

[Boomer5]

Fangraphs has us currently as the 7th worst team in baseball going into 2018.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=23

 

They have us at 24.7 WAR and to put that in perspective, the extreme tanking Marlins are at

22.4.

 

There is no need to overpay to bring in a super high priced player because the MLB team isn't ready. It's far more intelligent to build with our farm system.

[KeithStone53151]

Fangraphs has us currently as the 7th worst team in baseball going into 2018.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=23

 

There is no need to overpay to bring in a super high priced player because the MLB team isn't ready. It's far more intelligent to build with our farm system.

 

LOL! I'm glad the Brewers front office doesn't base their decision on what these clowns at fangraphs tout as analysis. Certain measurable pieces of their analysis have some value, but their big picture outlook has always been dreadful at best.

[Boomer5]

Fangraphs has us currently as the 7th worst team in baseball going into 2018.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=23

 

There is no need to overpay to bring in a super high priced player because the MLB team isn't ready. It's far more intelligent to build with our farm system.

 

LOL! I'm glad the Brewers front office doesn't base their decision on what these clowns at fangraphs tout as analysis. Certain measurable pieces of their analysis have some value, but their big picture outlook has always been dreadful at best.

 

Do you have access to better analysis?

[KeithStone53151]

Fangraphs has us currently as the 7th worst team in baseball going into 2018.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=23

 

There is no need to overpay to bring in a super high priced player because the MLB team isn't ready. It's far more intelligent to build with our farm system.

 

LOL! I'm glad the Brewers front office doesn't base their decision on what these clowns at fangraphs tout as analysis. Certain measurable pieces of their analysis have some value, but their big picture outlook has always been dreadful at best.

 

Do you have access to better analysis?

 

Me, no. But I think the Brewers front office has world's better analysis than fangraphs. Their analysis always overvalues veteran players and undervalues young players...it's a hard and fast rule. They probably predicted us to be bottom 5 last year and we see how that turned out. Their analysis had the cubs at a 100 win team before any offseason moves happened and before they even had a 4th and 5th starter.

[bill hAll Star]

I don't really have any problem that that Fangraphs analysis except for the Brewers. I'm one that thinks we might have overachieved but I don't think we're a 73 win team. I'm sure if I nitpicked I could find a few other issues with teams in the middle but for whatever reason, they can't peg the Brewers. Kinda similar to when a lot of the ratings couldn't get the Royals for a year or two.

[Humans Need Water]

No. I want Hader in the rotation but I'm fine with him in the pen if he ends up there, which I think he will. I'm comfortable with the pen being mainly comprised of internals at that point - Knebel, Hader, Jeffress, Barnes, T.Williams, Suter (plus maybe Houser). It's not difficult to find 2 arms that are better than half of what we had last year.

 

T.Williams needs a pen opportunity in spring. Guy throws gas with nasty slider. Tossed 51 innings last year so should easily be able to give 55-60 innings for the Brewers. Could be a huge addition from the start

This. Signing a Cishek, Reed, Swarzak, etc... would be sexy and fun for Brewer fans but I am willing to go into the season with Knebel, Jeffress, Barnes, Taylor Williams and Adrian Houser in the bullpen (with the addition of a LHP somewhere). I am willing to take the chance the difference in performance between those guys and Williams and Houser is not worth $9 million.

 

So you are willing to go into the season with exactly (1) proven arm at this juncture. Jeffress could be ok, could not be. Barnes drove us up the wall for a portion of last year, another that could be ok, could not be. The other two have no experience. Sounds like a possible disaster.

 

We lost the division last year because our pen was SO bad for half the year. I feel like i'm living deja vu year round now instead of only with Ted Thompson. Nobody is asking for a spending bonanza, most are asking for "A" proven arm to supplement the pen. "A" as in one. It's not asking for the bank to be broken, hell it is barely digging under the couch cushions. I don't know about anyone else but i'd rather not blow 20 games again early in the year with an otherwise competitive team.

Yes because Braun missing 30 games, Villar and Broxton dropping off hard, Nelson missing final month, Davies being brutal his first 4 starts, Pina missing final month, Perez taking a step back, etc all didn't affect the outcomes of games, right? Certainly the pen was an issue but there are always a ton of "what ifs" when looking back at an entire season. We missed the playoffs by 1 game - so if the pen stayed the same but everything above minimally changed then we would have made the playoffs.

 

1 proven arm? Knebel just dominated. Barnes was good in his 2016 time and started out incredible last year - still had a good season (10 K9, lowered H9 by 1 but his BB9 doubled and that will change). He has 100 innings - how many does one need to remain unproven? Jeffress has the longest track record of them all and has always been successful with Brewers. Hader proved in 47 innings last year he'll be a freak of nature. T.Williams throws 97 with a filthy slider - that tends to play well at this level. Suter has been really effective in his 25 innings in pen but also as a swing starter. Houser throws 95-96 with a curve (or slider) that snaps off - the org is essentially raving about how he looked at the end of the year. Who cares is Williams and Houser don't have experience yet - having the mind set of "that sounds like a disaster" because one doesn't have MLB experience is mind boggling. I guess Brinson is going to be a disaster since he only has like 40 AB.

 

2018 (as sits now?) - Knebel, Hader, Jeffress, Barnes, Suter, T.Williams, Houser

2017 (opening day) - Feliz, Knebel, Barnes, Hughes, Torres, Marinez, Milone, Jungmann (who quickly became Scahill)

 

We're already more talented and we haven't done anything since the end of last season.

[Humans Need Water]

Fangraphs has us currently as the 7th worst team in baseball going into 2018.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=23

 

There is no need to overpay to bring in a super high priced player because the MLB team isn't ready. It's far more intelligent to build with our farm system.

 

LOL! I'm glad the Brewers front office doesn't base their decision on what these clowns at fangraphs tout as analysis. Certain measurable pieces of their analysis have some value, but their big picture outlook has always been dreadful at best.

 

Do you have access to better analysis?

Oh my. *every* MLB team has MUCH better analytics teams in place than Fangraphs. Just because Fangraphs is one of a few places to gather advanced metrics doesn't mean it's *quality* and realistic

[bill hAll Star]

Oh my. *every* MLB team has MUCH better analytics teams in place than Fangraphs. Just because Fangraphs is one of a few places to gather advanced metrics doesn't mean it's *quality* and realistic

 

That doesn't mean you throw it in the trash, though. xFIP can be tricked a bit by groundball pitchers but that isn't a reason for me to dismiss it entirely. It's useful. But I agree that I would not use it as a reason to slam the Brewers this year because I agree that that projection does seem quite low.

[pacopete4]

Fangraphs has been one of the worst things to come to the world of baseball fans. Plenty of people that believe they are the holy answers to everything and the end all of a discussion.

[Jenkins5]

I personally enjoy fangraph, however I’d never pretend that any of those guys know more that the analyst that teams have.... if they did, they’d have jobs in front office making a higher salary. Brewers have actual former rocket scientist & Ivy League guys using advanced & innovative metrics that we have zero access to.

 

Last year Brewers were not suppose to win 68 games.... they won 86 games. Explain to me how every site like fangraphs is so great that they were completely wrong about Brewers last year? Articles are interesting to read & gauge the league but I’m not betting on any predictions they make.

[JimH5]

August Fagerstrom used to work at Fangraphs and is now in the Brewers front office. Kiley McDaniel used to work at Fangraphs and is now in the Braves front office.

[Eye Black]

August Fagerstrom used to work at Fangraphs and is now in the Brewers front office. Kiley McDaniel used to work at Fangraphs and is now in the Braves front office.

Not to mention some of their staff have turned down past opportunities to work for front offices.

 

The Fangraphs “clowns” staff don’t claim to have access to more data points and analytical ammunition than the organizations do. In fact on several occasions Dave Cameron has referenced how much they don’t have access to in comparison to teams. What exactly are we arguing against here? They have a bunch of savvy baseball minds that help drive good content and thought provoking dialogue. None of it is bullet proof and certainly some features are more proven than others, and they would be the first to admit that. So while they may fall short of the resources that the teams are privy to, how does striving to develop a repository of baseball data and analytics that fans are able to access qualify them as “one of the worst things to come to the world of baseball fans?” How exactly would fans be better off without Fangraphs? If anyone is taking their projections or analysis as gospel then that is on them, not Fangraphs.

[Eye Black]

A little closer to getting back on topic... I want to see a baseball transaction as much as anyone, but the one thing I remain confident in is that any moves David Stearns (and staff) make will have been fully vetted with the risks being calculated and weighed against the long-term viability of the organization. I think he will remain committed to building something that can be sustained over a long period. That may not put the team in the headlines with a big splash very often, but it is a philosophy and focus on organization building from the bottom up that many of us have wanted to see for a long time.

[KeithStone53151]

August Fagerstrom used to work at Fangraphs and is now in the Brewers front office. Kiley McDaniel used to work at Fangraphs and is now in the Braves front office.

Not to mention some of their staff have turned down past opportunities to work for front offices.

 

The Fangraphs “clowns” staff don’t claim to have access to more data points and analytical ammunition than the organizations do. In fact on several occasions Dave Cameron has referenced how much they don’t have access to in comparison to teams. What exactly are we arguing against here? They have a bunch of savvy baseball minds that help drive good content and thought provoking dialogue. None of it is bullet proof and certainly some features are more proven than others, and they would be the first to admit that. So while they may fall short of the resources that the teams are privy to, how does striving to develop a repository of baseball data and analytics that fans are able to access qualify them as “one of the worst things to come to the world of baseball fans?” How exactly would fans be better off without Fangraphs? If anyone is taking their projections or analysis as gospel then that is on them, not Fangraphs.

 

Fangraphs provides valuable data for sure, but their team projections are always absolutely terrible. My issue came from the poster that said we shouldn't bother signing relievers because fangraphs says we are going to be 7th worst in the league. It's basically the classic bf.net pick one statistical measure that supports your claim and ignore all evidence to the contrary...and the supporting measure they chose was an awful one at that. Fangraphs is terrible at projecting young players and regression of aging players. Not that it's easy, it doesn't change that they typically project aging players to be timeless until shown otherwise and young players to be terrible until shown otherwise.

[billymac]

Stearns did say that even if they did make a move, it might not be announced right away as there are physicals and what not. He also was pretty confident on Tues/Wed that within 24 hours they would have a couple things in place. Hoping that those moves did happen and they are keeping it quiet. Realize most things leak out, but they signed Garza and waited like a month to announce him at Fanfest. Keeping my fingers crossed for a big trade and 2 FA signings to be announced in the next couple days.

[3and2Fastball]

This is a pretty good article that explains a few things

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2017/12/14/brewers-continue-look-additions-after-quiet-winter-meetings/946521001/

[brewmann04]

The brewers are not going to throw money at players just because they got close to a WC spot.

They need to be careful with this rebuild and make sure they stay the course and even though I was very excited about last year result I am a bit tempered that they can repeat that performance. Their will be a day when Mark will say we going to spend not sure if this is the year. However still think DS will pull off a trade before the season.