Ozuna to Cardinals

[monty57]

The Cardinals have the best PED program in baseball so I'm sure he'll continue to hit like last year, if not better.

 

I'm not really surprised that the market for outfielders is a bear. It's really hard to set yourself apart from the pack as a really good outfielder these days. There's a ton of guys that are pretty good if you look at their production compared to other positions, but then you look at all the other options and wonder why you'd give up much for them. Look at the Brewers with guys like Phillips and Brinson good candidates to be better than a guy like Braun in a couple years, if not this year already. I'm glad they tried to trade Santana but can see why they didn't get much. There's just a bit of a glut, and anybody looking is going to expect a bargain.

 

Kind of wish they had traded Brinson for Gray at this point and would love Yelich. He's one of those guys who truly sets himself apart from the pack in the outfield because of his consistency and all-around play.

 

Hold off on that sentiment for a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if Santana or Brinson end up headlining the deal to bring Archer or another SP to Milwaukee.

 

The "Brewers trying to sell high on Santana" came from a Hardricourt tweet. In McCalvy's article, Stearns has said he hates to move good young players with team control, so the price tag will be high. Of course Stearns is going to talk him up, but I'd guess Hardricourt was giving his opinion, and didn't get that from calling and discussing things with other GMs around the league.

[Humans Need Water]

The Cardinals have the best PED program in baseball so I'm sure he'll continue to hit like last year, if not better.

 

I'm not really surprised that the market for outfielders is a bear. It's really hard to set yourself apart from the pack as a really good outfielder these days. There's a ton of guys that are pretty good if you look at their production compared to other positions, but then you look at all the other options and wonder why you'd give up much for them. Look at the Brewers with guys like Phillips and Brinson good candidates to be better than a guy like Braun in a couple years, if not this year already. I'm glad they tried to trade Santana but can see why they didn't get much. There's just a bit of a glut, and anybody looking is going to expect a bargain.

 

Kind of wish they had traded Brinson for Gray at this point and would love Yelich. He's one of those guys who truly sets himself apart from the pack in the outfield because of his consistency and all-around play.

Didn't get that much for Santana? Please enlighten everyone on exactly what they were offered for him....

 

Also, Yelich is one of those guys who truly separates himself from the pack? The guy was the the 3rd best OF on his own team last year by a WIDE margin. Ozuna has also posted similar OPS+ to Yelich in 3 of the past 4yrs while also being a 2x AS compared to 0 for Yelich. Yelich is indeed a well-rounded, consistent, quality but he's nowhere near a superstar aka someone who separates themselves from the pack (at this point).

[TURBO]

Phillips and Brinson could be better than Braun might be a little stretch... When Braun was Braun, he was one of the best in the game, I don't see that as a realistic goal for either player, especially Phillips.

[Warning Track Power]

Phillips and Brinson could be better than Braun might be a little stretch... When Braun was Braun, he was one of the best in the game, I don't see that as a realistic goal for either player, especially Phillips.

In my opinion, the Brewers don't have a Braun bat in their system at this point. Braun was the best combination hitter (power/average) I have ever seen in Milwaukee. Brinson may have the power but he doesn't strike me as a .300 hitter. I see him more as a .275/.330 25-30 HR bat. Phillips, if he hits .265/.340 with 20 HR I will be happy. Definitely not Braun. The only player I see that could approach Braun potentially, and is relatively realistic for the Brewers to acquire, would be Christian Yelich. Yelich in Milwaukee I see turning into a .300/.375 with 25-30 HR bat.

[coolhandluke121]

Didn't get that much for Santana? Please enlighten everyone on exactly what they were offered for him....

 

 

Credible people confirmed that the Brewers weren't just taking calls on him, but were actively trying to trade him. It stands to reason that they didn't get the offers that the Santana fanboys here take for granted they should get for him.

 

As for Santana being a good young player under team control and Stearns being loathe to trade players like that, I'd wager that Stearns doesn't actually think Santana is really that good. He seems to be the anti-Melvin in terms of valuing defense, which is a good thing, and there's a pretty decent chance Santana ends up being a fairly inconsistent and frustrating player who never lives up to the promise, a la Corey Hart.

[coolhandluke121]

Was it not obvious that I meant Phillips and Brinson are likely to be better than current Braun in a couple years, if not sooner? I'd like to think I wouldn't have to clarify that... it was obviously a comment on the current supply-and-demand state of outfield talent.

[Warning Track Power]

Was it not obvious that I meant Phillips and Brinson are likely to be better than current Braun in a couple years, if not sooner? I'd like to think I wouldn't have to clarify that... it was obviously a comment on the current supply-and-demand state of outfield talent.

You also said they possibly would be better this year which is a significant reach.

[monty57]

I'd wager that Stearns doesn't actually think Santana is really that good

 

I'd say that he prefers holding onto Brinson and Phillips over holding onto Santana when considering all factors involved (talent level, team control, cost, expected return in trade, etc.).

 

Sometimes you can like something, but like the alternative more.

[3and2Fastball]

Phillips and Brinson could be better than Braun might be a little stretch... When Braun was Braun, he was one of the best in the game, I don't see that as a realistic goal for either player, especially Phillips.

 

I assume they mean better than 2018 Braun. I don't see either one approaching Braun's 2007-2011 numbers, but in terms of WAR it isn't that huge of a stretch that they could out produce Braun in 2018 and especially 2019. We'll see. It does remain to be seen if Brinson can actually hit MLB pitching, but we can reasonably assume that he can, based on what the experts say.

 

Whether Brinson is as injury prone as Braun is a greater concern, for me anyways... I think Phillips is a lock to be a 4 WAR player in 2018 if allowed to play 145-150 games or so... They may end up platooning him if he can't hit LHP...

[TURBO]

Was it not obvious that I meant Phillips and Brinson are likely to be better than current Braun in a couple years, if not sooner? I'd like to think I wouldn't have to clarify that... it was obviously a comment on the current supply-and-demand state of outfield talent.

 

 

My comment was in response to this comment you made earlier...

 

Look at the Brewers with guys like Phillips and Brinson good candidates to be better than a guy like Braun in a couple years, if not this year already.

[coolhandluke121]

 

 

My comment was in response to this comment you made earlier...

 

Look at the Brewers with guys like Phillips and Brinson good candidates to be better than a guy like Braun in a couple years, if not this year already.

 

This is equivalent to saying there's a good chance they'll be better than Braun in a couple years, and I wouldn't be shocked if they're both better in 2018. If you take exception to that, you haven't been watching Braun lately.

[3and2Fastball]

Phillips actually had a better WAR last year than Braun, 1.4 to 1.2, and Phillips only had 98 plate appearances!

[LouisEly]

I'm glad they tried to trade Santana but can see why they didn't get much. There's just a bit of a glut, and anybody looking is going to expect a bargain.

This goes back a ways. I believe it's why Bruce and Martinez brought back so little in trades last year, and why it was so easy to acquire Brinson, Phillips, Santana and Cordell in the first place. Guys with good bats get pushed to OF to fast track their bats to the majors, and then it creates a glut of OFs.

[TooLiveBrew]

Didn't get that much for Santana? Please enlighten everyone on exactly what they were offered for him....

 

 

Credible people confirmed that the Brewers weren't just taking calls on him, but were actively trying to trade him. It stands to reason that they didn't get the offers that the Santana fanboys here take for granted they should get for him.

 

As for Santana being a good young player under team control and Stearns being loathe to trade players like that, I'd wager that Stearns doesn't actually think Santana is really that good. He seems to be the anti-Melvin in terms of valuing defense, which is a good thing, and there's a pretty decent chance Santana ends up being a fairly inconsistent and frustrating player who never lives up to the promise, a la Corey Hart.

Why so negative about Santana? And Hart for that matter, who had a really nice career before having it derailed by knee injuries? Hart absolutely lived up to his promise imo.

 

Why shouldn't fans be excited by Santana's offense in 2017? Your use of "fanboys" hints that you aren't a fan of him.

 

By the way, I'm not trying to incite an argument. I'm just scratching my head here about what's to hate about a 24-yo who took a big step forward & just had a great season at the plate. Those guys aren't easy to find.

[Humans Need Water]

Didn't get that much for Santana? Please enlighten everyone on exactly what they were offered for him....

 

 

Credible people confirmed that the Brewers weren't just taking calls on him, but were actively trying to trade him. It stands to reason that they didn't get the offers that the Santana fanboys here take for granted they should get for him.

 

As for Santana being a good young player under team control and Stearns being loathe to trade players like that, I'd wager that Stearns doesn't actually think Santana is really that good. He seems to be the anti-Melvin in terms of valuing defense, which is a good thing, and there's a pretty decent chance Santana ends up being a fairly inconsistent and frustrating player who never lives up to the promise, a la Corey Hart.

AGAIN, please enlighten everyone on what *exactly* Stearns was *offered* for Santana.

 

Additionally, please enlighten everyone on what *exactly* Stearns was *offering* on our end as well as *exactly* what he was seeking in return for said *offers*.

 

Thanks.

 

Finally, it's hilarious how you throw out ridiculous responses like the one you just gave to my initial question (while not answering it of course - because you can't) then have the balls to say that Stearns doesn't think Santana is really that good (again - *prove it*).

 

Hart had a 6yr stretch where his OPS+ was 127, 98 (AS), 100, 130 (AS), 133, 120. Yelich has posted above 118 once thus far. Yelich just put up a 117 in his age 25 season while Hart started his 6yr run with a 127 at that age. What is everyone here missing? Was he supposed to be a perennial MVP?

[KeithStone53151]

For those upset about not trading for a bat at the deadline, it's definitely not good strategy to overpay. Imagine right now if the Cardinals hadn't done this trade and still had alcantara. Imagine how much pain the brewers would be in right now.