Trade with the Pirates

[Eye Black]

Per MLB Trade Rumors regarding talks between the Brewers and Pirates...

 

In two more tweets from Haudricourt, he mentions that the Brewers and Pirates were in talks today. With Milwaukee looking for pitching and second base help, Haudricourt speculates that Gerrit Cole or Josh Harrison could have been topics of discussion between the two division rivals.

There has been some previous discussion on this board about Josh Harrison, but the idea of the Brewers targeting Gerrit Cole is an interesting one. Cole is under team control for the next two seasons. The only confirmation at this point is the teams are talking with one another, who they are discussing is obviously just speculation on the part of Haudricourt.

[Kelbysdaddy]

Cole is a jerk. I’d really hate to have to cheer for him. Quality pitcher though.

[JohnBriggs12]

Cole is a jerk. I’d really hate to have to cheer for him. Quality pitcher though.

 

Somebody posted the same thing when Swarzak was acquired. My worry is more that his performance last year was really not up to his previous standards. Could be talking about Nova and not Cole. Nova fits the profile, with 2 seasons of control too and wouldn't cost as much.

[TJseven7]

And Nova wouldn't have to pitch to shaw so his era would drop. Isnt it nova that shaw absolutely destroys?

 

Harrison feels like a brewer killer so get him out of pitt.

[OnaBadger58]

Harrison is the type of bat this team could use. He also fits the versatility that Stearns loves. Agree that Cole is kind if douchey, but he seems like the player you like if he's on your team (aka not John Lackey level).

[brewmann04]

Yes I can live with a jerk if he pitches lights out and always like Harrison

[MillerParkSouth]

I wouldn’t want to pay the division premium that it’s going to take to make this trade. Just go get Archer.

[TURBO]

I wouldn’t want to pay the division premium that it’s going to take to make this trade. Just go get Archer.

 

Archer is going to come with a premium of his own...

[NievesNoNO]

A Cole/Harrison combo would be interesting. Have to imagine the price would be pretty steep, despite the shorter control and larger contracts. I do like that all options seem to be being considered.

[StearnsFTW]

And Nova wouldn't have to pitch to shaw so his era would drop. Isnt it nova that shaw absolutely destroys?

 

Harrison feels like a brewer killer so get him out of pitt.

 

.824/1.571/2.395

 

Yes, that is destruction haha.

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't like any part of giving up top prospects for a two year player at this point in the rebuild. As someone pointed out in another topic, just because we have assets to trade and seemingly a glut of OFs, doesn't mean you have to move them today.

 

The only way I would do something like this is include Braun, since that would have value to the Brewers (shedding his salary down the road.) Obviously the Pirates don't fit in a deal like that.

 

I would do the Cole deal if he had 4 years left, or if we did a deal like this a couple years down the road.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't like any part of giving up top prospects for a two year player at this point in the rebuild. As someone pointed out in another topic, just because we have assets to trade and seemingly a glut of OFs, doesn't mean you have to move them today.

 

The only way I would do something like this is include Braun, since that would have value to the Brewers (shedding his salary down the road.) Obviously the Pirates don't fit in a deal like that.

 

I would do the Cole deal if he had 4 years left, or if we did a deal like this a couple years down the road.

 

Stage of a the rebuild? They were one game out of playoffs. The farm system is well stocked. The focus has changed from rebuild to how do they get over the finish line while the two main adversaries are still in a bit of a transition and guys like Shaw, Thames and Braun still are productive.

[bill hAll Star]

I don't like any part of giving up top prospects for a two year player at this point in the rebuild. As someone pointed out in another topic, just because we have assets to trade and seemingly a glut of OFs, doesn't mean you have to move them today.

 

The only way I would do something like this is include Braun, since that would have value to the Brewers (shedding his salary down the road.) Obviously the Pirates don't fit in a deal like that.

 

I would do the Cole deal if he had 4 years left, or if we did a deal like this a couple years down the road.

 

Stage of a the rebuild? They were one game out of playoffs. The farm system is well stocked. The focus has changed from rebuild to how do they get over the finish line while the two main adversaries are still in a bit of a transition and guys like Shaw, Thames and Braun still are productive.

 

Making such a trade takes your farm system from "well stocked" to "eh, it's decent."

 

When Santana/Shaw/Davies/Anderson/Braun/Thames/Knebel/Nelson/maybe Anderson are all going to be gone or nearly gone after 2020, you had better be darn sure that these 2 year guys you trade for give you a shot to win a world series.

 

Because if not, you finish the 2019 season and your outlook is you have a bunch of late-prime players with 1, maybe 2 years left and not a special farm system to replace them or replenish via trade. It will have the feel of 2012 or 2013.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't like any part of giving up top prospects for a two year player at this point in the rebuild. As someone pointed out in another topic, just because we have assets to trade and seemingly a glut of OFs, doesn't mean you have to move them today.

 

The only way I would do something like this is include Braun, since that would have value to the Brewers (shedding his salary down the road.) Obviously the Pirates don't fit in a deal like that.

 

I would do the Cole deal if he had 4 years left, or if we did a deal like this a couple years down the road.

 

Stage of a the rebuild? They were one game out of playoffs. The farm system is well stocked. The focus has changed from rebuild to how do they get over the finish line while the two main adversaries are still in a bit of a transition and guys like Shaw, Thames and Braun still are productive.

 

Making such a trade takes your farm system from "well stocked" to "eh, it's decent."

 

When Santana/Shaw/Davies/Anderson/Braun/Thames/Knebel/Nelson/maybe Anderson are all going to be gone or nearly gone after 2020, you had better be darn sure that these 2 year guys you trade for give you a shot to win a world series.

 

Because if not, you finish the 2019 season and your outlook is you have a bunch of late-prime players with 1, maybe 2 years left and not a special farm system to replace them or replenish via trade. It will have the feel of 2012 or 2013.

 

Or you have a bunch of high-leverage trade chips (late-prime players) to restock the system via trade. I mean, the whole goal of baseball is to go to the World Series, and the team proved last year that they are probably only a couple pieces away from being a prime playoff contender for the next few seasons. This is EXACTLY why you stack young talent in your farm system ... to use it as leverage to acquire the pieces needed to make a run. I am very excited about what Sterns did in the 2017 draft, and I think he'll be able to keep adding high-end talent to the farm system via the draft, trades and international signings. Having the top farm system in baseball does no good if the team is just outside playoff contention.

[bill hAll Star]

Stage of a the rebuild? They were one game out of playoffs. The farm system is well stocked. The focus has changed from rebuild to how do they get over the finish line while the two main adversaries are still in a bit of a transition and guys like Shaw, Thames and Braun still are productive.

 

Making such a trade takes your farm system from "well stocked" to "eh, it's decent."

 

When Santana/Shaw/Davies/Anderson/Braun/Thames/Knebel/Nelson/maybe Anderson are all going to be gone or nearly gone after 2020, you had better be darn sure that these 2 year guys you trade for give you a shot to win a world series.

 

Because if not, you finish the 2019 season and your outlook is you have a bunch of late-prime players with 1, maybe 2 years left and not a special farm system to replace them or replenish via trade. It will have the feel of 2012 or 2013.

 

Or you have a bunch of high-leverage trade chips (late-prime players) to restock the system via trade. I mean, the whole goal of baseball is to go to the World Series, and the team proved last year that they are probably only a couple pieces away from being a prime playoff contender for the next few seasons. This is EXACTLY why you stack young talent in your farm system ... to use it as leverage to acquire the pieces needed to make a run. I am very excited about what Sterns did in the 2017 draft, and I think he'll be able to keep adding high-end talent to the farm system via the draft, trades and international signings. Having the top farm system in baseball does no good if the team is just outside playoff contention.

 

In my opinion, we could have a Greinke/Marcum-esque offseason and unload 3/4 of the major farm pieces and load up for 2018 and 2019 and make the playoffs in neither season. It would be quite possible. We can debate overachieve/underachieve in 2017 but I'm not ready to push the chips in. I don't think adding a #2 starter and nice position player to this team makes it a lock to get to the playoffs.

 

We are not the top farm system in baseball.

 

We have a good farm system. What I'd like to use it for is to have cheap, good players in 2019 and beyond. I hope Stearns signs free agents to his heart's content and lets our good farm system speak for itself. Then we've got 8-10 years that we can compete. Not 2 years where we go all-in and hope to win 90 games with a good Cubs team in the division.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

We have a good farm system. What I'd like to use it for is to have cheap, good players in 2019 and beyond. I hope Stearns signs free agents to his heart's content and lets our good farm system speak for itself. Then we've got 8-10 years that we can compete. Not 2 years where we go all-in and hope to win 90 games with a good Cubs team in the division.

 

I fear that competing as a small market team for an 8-10 year window just isn't realistic the way MLB finances are structured. They will never be able to afford top-end free agents, and their studs will walk if given the opportunity to make it to free agency.

 

The Brewers are going to have to follow the format the Royals did ... build the farm system, make a few big deals to fill in the gaps when their top players are in their prime, then begin a rebuild a couple years later when those top players price themselves out of the market. That's loosely that the Brewers have done as well after their playoff seasons.

[brewmann04]

I think the will be following the Astros but we have not been as bad as the Astros were to get those #1 draft picks.

DS doing his Homework and not going to tear down the farm system at this point

[FVBrewerFan]

I don't like any part of giving up top prospects for a two year player at this point in the rebuild. As someone pointed out in another topic, just because we have assets to trade and seemingly a glut of OFs, doesn't mean you have to move them today.

 

The only way I would do something like this is include Braun, since that would have value to the Brewers (shedding his salary down the road.) Obviously the Pirates don't fit in a deal like that.

 

I would do the Cole deal if he had 4 years left, or if we did a deal like this a couple years down the road.

 

Stage of a the rebuild? They were one game out of playoffs. The farm system is well stocked. The focus has changed from rebuild to how do they get over the finish line while the two main adversaries are still in a bit of a transition and guys like Shaw, Thames and Braun still are productive.

 

I realize that's YOUR focus, but I don't share that view. The Dodgers didn't win the WS last year. Do you know how far away the Brewers are from the Dodgers? They will likely never be the best team on paper, but they have to be a lot closer than they are now to be a legit contender. They are not a player or two away.

 

So you add a big rotation arm. All that does is bring them back to even with the loss of Nelson. And we have no idea if Anderson can repeat the season he had last year. Not to mention others that could regress.

 

2017 season was fool's gold. Fun season, surprising season. But I don't believe for a minute adding Archer or Cole and a couple BP arms would make this team a real contender. Sorry, just don't see it.

[bill hAll Star]

We have a good farm system. What I'd like to use it for is to have cheap, good players in 2019 and beyond. I hope Stearns signs free agents to his heart's content and lets our good farm system speak for itself. Then we've got 8-10 years that we can compete. Not 2 years where we go all-in and hope to win 90 games with a good Cubs team in the division.

 

I fear that competing as a small market team for an 8-10 year window just isn't realistic the way MLB finances are structured. They will never be able to afford top-end free agents, and their studs will walk if given the opportunity to make it to free agency.

 

The Brewers are going to have to follow the format the Royals did ... build the farm system, make a few big deals to fill in the gaps when their top players are in their prime, then begin a rebuild a couple years later when those top players price themselves out of the market. That's loosely that the Brewers have done as well after their playoff seasons.

 

The Cardinals, while they always sneak into the back end of the top 10 in payroll, are what I'd shoot for. Always have a good farm system and be in the mix every year and have a handful of good, bigger contract guys on your roster every year. Only make a splash trade if you're in the World Series mix at the trade deadline.

 

Say we stand pat. Would you be shocked if we were a 78 win team next year? Would it not be depressing to trade half of the farm for a few players to pull that 78 up to 82 or 83?

 

We won 86 games last year and Jimmy Nelson was a huge part of that. I expect improvement from some guys, but I just really would hesitate to say that we're a few players away from being a likely bet to win it all. I at least want the years where we go all in to be ones like 2008 and 2011 and even with Cole on the roster, I'd be betting on the Cubs to win the division and at best we're going for a 1-game playoff.

[monty57]

I'm with those that don't want to trade a lot of our farm for a 2-year player. I could understand trading to get four years of Archer, but not for a 2-year guy unless the plan is to go for it in 2018 and then flip Cole for prospects after the season. I don't think that's the plan, so I'd pass on Cole.

 

It's a hard time for fans, as it is really, really tempting to target someone like Cole, but I think the trade would hurt the franchise in the long term. The short-term outlook feels good today, while the long-term outlook is what could transform us from "the same old Brewers" to what the Cardinals have built over the years.