Jake Arrieta

[pacopete4]

Who? Mark Cuban rode dirk to 1 title and has since destroyed the mavs. You think stienbrenner won because he meddled? There are many examples of non FO destroying franchises. Where are your success stories?

-Cuban rode Dirk to one more title than Milwaukee has lol

-Steinbrenner meddled in everything.

-Turner took over as manager of his team at one point.

-the Rooney family

-Jerry Buss

-Jerry Jones

-Robert Kraft

-Mike Ilitch

 

And I’m sure plenty more examples. There’s definetely not a one size fits all equation to this thing. Again, you don’t like it, that’s fine. But it doesn’t make your statement true.

[adambr2]

I'm kind of with TJ on this one. I get that it is Mark's right and all, but this is the kind of thing that I had hoped was disappearing when Stearns replaced Melvin, and this is not a very good sign that it has.

 

I trust Stearns not to be swayed by emotion and fan pressure. I don't really have that kind of faith in Mark A.

 

Mark is the owner and going to do what he wants. I get that he has a say and that's fine. But I wish he would defer all agent inquiries to his GM and assistant GM. Boras is far too busy to waste his time with someone that isn't calling shots. If he's having more contact with Mark A. than he is with Stearns I can't help but wonder who is really making the personnel decisions.

[Boomer5]

No GM can make the call on a 9 digit contract. That has to come from the owner. Boras is right to go to the decision maker for such deals.

[TJseven7]

Who? Mark Cuban rode dirk to 1 title and has since destroyed the mavs. You think stienbrenner won because he meddled? There are many examples of non FO destroying franchises. Where are your success stories?

-Cuban rode Dirk to one more title than Milwaukee has lol

-Steinbrenner meddled in everything.

-Turner took over as manager of his team at one point.

-the Rooney family

-Jerry Buss

-Jerry Jones

-Robert Kraft

-Mike Ilitch

 

And I’m sure plenty more examples. There’s definetely not a one size fits all equation to this thing. Again, you don’t like it, that’s fine. But it doesn’t make your statement true.

 

Cuban, great dude. Love how he treats people. Really do. Gets a ton of undeserved flack. Not good at basketball.

I believe Steinbrenner under achieved. It could have been better than it was for the yankees. Scary but also true. As the game developed he flat bombed.

Turner I'm admittedly unfamiliar.

Rooney's no way that's on them. They've hired beautifully and built the league but their football people had the say on the team.

Buss I raise you the logo who was his brain.

Jones... ok somewhat. Most is hiring brilliant coaches and they really did almost all the work. He gets a part but his coaches made him and the salary cap era destroyed him.

Kraft does way less than you think with football operations. Its all bill. Kraft runs the league bill runs the team.

Who is ilitch... sorry!

[MrTPlush]

Who is ilitch... sorry!

 

Tigers former owner who recently passed away. I can't think of an owner more massively involved in FA signings in recent memory. Great owner though.

 

I think it is rather irrelevant though. The names being listed are really extreme examples I think all owners can become involved sometimes. Attanasio didn't seem to be involved in the Cain signing nor trading for Yelich. Deep breath everyone.

[TJseven7]

No GM can make the call on a 9 digit contract. That has to come from the owner. Boras is right to go to the decision maker for such deals.

 

Oh, I get why Boras does it. He wants to talk to the decision maker and purse like every sales person everywhere. That's obvious. The owner should talk to his GM and thats that. Owners communication with agents should be yes or no after speaking with the GM. Gm already knows what he can spend. Agent shouldn't get that info.

[pacopete4]

Who? Mark Cuban rode dirk to 1 title and has since destroyed the mavs. You think stienbrenner won because he meddled? There are many examples of non FO destroying franchises. Where are your success stories?

-Cuban rode Dirk to one more title than Milwaukee has lol

-Steinbrenner meddled in everything.

-Turner took over as manager of his team at one point.

-the Rooney family

-Jerry Buss

-Jerry Jones

-Robert Kraft

-Mike Ilitch

 

And I’m sure plenty more examples. There’s definetely not a one size fits all equation to this thing. Again, you don’t like it, that’s fine. But it doesn’t make your statement true.

 

Cuban, great dude. Love how he treats people. Really do. Gets a ton of undeserved flack. Not good at basketball.

I believe Steinbrenner under achieved. It could have been better than it was for the yankees. Scary but also true. As the game developed he flat bombed.

Turner I'm admittedly unfamiliar.

Rooney's no way that's on them. They've hired beautifully and built the league but their football people had the say on the team.

Buss I raise you the logo who was his brain.

Jones... ok somewhat. Most is hiring brilliant coaches and they really did almost all the work. He gets a part but his coaches made him and the salary cap era destroyed him.

Kraft does way less than you think with football operations. Its all bill. Kraft runs the league bill runs the team.

Who is ilitch... sorry!

 

These are all your opinions. Never said that an owner does it all on his own. Just that there are some that get involved with roster decisions. Especially when large sums of money are involved. You asked for examples and you got em. All these owners listed had a lot of say and a lot of them pulled the trigger on a lot of the deals their teams made and won. I’m not even saying I like an owner who meddles but just showing you that it does and has worked out plenty of times for other franchises. And like another poster mentioned, any large figure deal is going through Mark, not Stearns.

[TJseven7]

Who is ilitch... sorry!

 

Tigers former owner who recently passed away. I can't think of an owner more massively involved in FA signings in recent memory. Great owner though.

 

I think it is rather irrelevant though. The names being listed are really extreme examples I think all owners can become involved sometimes. Attanasio didn't seem to be involved in the Cain signing nor trading for Yelich. Deep breath everyone.

 

Thanks.

 

That also brings me back to my point. That you also are making. We're talking 25-30 years here. Brew listed off some absolute Icons in their sports. They are icons because they are the few. Even most of that list leaned on BB/parcells jimmy johnson cowher/tomlin JERRY freaking WEST. Most owners just can't. I'm a huge FO dork especially football and the dysmal embarrassing list of failures of the non icons getting involved is very very long.

 

Mark A doesn't look like hes doing Kohl LED type stuff anymore... but hearing boras talks to him often just fired me up. Its just not his place... even if its minor and mostly harmless. Breathe as in I just did that myself.

[pacopete4]

Telling an owner that it’s not his place is absurd to me. Again, Mark owns the Brewers. An owner can run his business however he wants. Maybe it won’t work out for said owner if they meddle in roster building but saying it’s not his place is flat out wrong.

 

And some of those owners at icons, sure. But they go to be icons for what they did as owners building winners. I’ll take that any day.

[TJseven7]

They are not opinions. Maybe you don't follow it, maybe you don't know, but its not opinion simply because you want it to be otherwise. Jerry West is known as Buss' go to mind and decision maker. It imploded when others took over because they wanted the say. Buss knew who made him look brilliant. BB Parcells Jimmy Johnson Cowher/Tomlin built their teams. Kraft Buss Rooney's are prime examples of finding your genius and letting him work. Jones meddles... the stronger the coach the better the results have been which is for a reason. Cuban no one looks at his flailing and thinks he's doing well. He pushed for 1 shot after landing on dirk. LED could do that with giannis. Doesn't make up for the monsterous blunders that cost them better results.

 

No deal should go through mark A. He sets a budget. 5 year budget. That's all he should do.

[TJseven7]

Telling an owner that it’s not his place is absurd to me. Again, Mark owns the Brewers. An owner can run his business however he wants. Maybe it won’t work out for said owner if they meddle in roster building but saying it’s not his place is flat out wrong.

 

And some of those owners at icons, sure. But they go to be icons for what they did as owners building winners. I’ll take that any day.

 

The winners jones buss rooney kraft built were directly due to them hiring/trusting their stearns and either backing away... or in the case of jones... being silenced by a stronger voice. Stienbrenner just spent like a mad man.

 

Kraft is not an icon for his personel anything. Nor rooney, nor jones who tried to get in the way. Nor buss or stienbrenner. They are icons for their huge personalities, spending lavish spending, for changing the leagues they ownee teams in and because they hired the right ceo for their teams.

 

Mark A got his genius. Go do selig mlb stuff and brewer brand building.

[pacopete4]

They are not opinions. Maybe you don't follow it, maybe you don't know, but its not opinion simply because you want it to be otherwise. Jerry West is known as Buss' go to mind and decision maker. It imploded when others took over because they wanted the say. Buss knew who made him look brilliant. BB Parcells Jimmy Johnson Cowher/Tomlin built their teams. Kraft Buss Rooney's are prime examples of finding your genius and letting him work. Jones meddles... the stronger the coach the better the results have been which is for a reason. Cuban no one looks at his flailing and thinks he's doing well. He pushed for 1 shot after landing on dirk. LED could do that with giannis. Doesn't make up for the monsterous blunders that cost them better results.

 

No deal should go through mark A. He sets a budget. 5 year budget. That's all he should do.

 

I forget we are living in the society that isn’t sure what facts are.

 

You asked for examples.

-Fact: All the owners I listed, meddled. Whether a little or a lot. You can go on some rant about who they surrounded themselves with all you want but it doesn’t change the fact that they meddled. They took part in making decisions you would say are none of their business.

 

You then say all Mark should do is set a budget, a five year budget. That’s an opinion. Not a fact. It’s your opinion on what Mark should do as an owner.

[TJseven7]

You know you can debate things without an opening line trying to discredit me personally or my intelligence. It won't have the same sting and you might just not win the debate but it is proper.

 

I admitted jones and stienbrenner meddle. I also explained it was to their detriment. Cuban detriment. Buss rooney kraft simply disagree. Most if not all meddling is bad. It has negative impact. It didn't make them who they are today. This is true. Not only in sheer volume of failures caused by meddling by icons and nepotists alike but also in those who can claim any actual success in their meddling. In our modern era there are next to, if not exactly, zero.

 

If your odds are 1 for every 10 or 20 or 100 its a bad idea. I do not know a number but its very very lopsided.

 

Owners who meddle want to win, that's bad. No owner is as invested as it takes in their teams sport to be a deserving decision maker on personel. Budget, yes tell your gm. The job of a scout let alone GM is insanely intensive. Few coaches who are completely absorbed in their sport can be a good gm. Few players who played their whole life can be a good coach. Owners aren't close to that level of commitment and its not their fault. Its not their job. They have split focus.

 

Why is wanting to win bad. Good Gms don't try to win. They build. Great gms aren't looking to get better they are looking to do what's right. Whats cost effective and proper value. Coaches and owners want better and fear worse. They dont grasp how worse can actually be better like a gm does. Boras talks to mark and the deals close but boras is pushing. Mark gets excited, thinks pr, thinks fans. Streans thinks too high. Mark gets invested and puts the slightest pressure on stearns... thats bad. 1 more year, 10 mil more. Thats the wrong value, that should be something that simply didn't come together. Worse is better long term. Owners want to win. Every single one who meddles thinks they are helping. They arent.

 

Owners hire their ainge... he hires your stevens... you destroy.

Owners hire your west cowher bb jimmy johnson pop... you wait, watch, they win.

[trwi7]

My thoughts. Owners can do whatever they want in regards to their team. They should also own that. If you don't trust the guy you hired to make decisions, then get rid of him. If you want to run the team, then do it and take all the accolades and criticism that comes with that. That's the only reason I respect Jerry Jones. He runs his team, everyone knows he runs his team, he answers to the media.

[TJseven7]

My thoughts. Owners can do whatever they want in regards to their team. They should also own that. If you don't trust the guy you hired to make decisions, then get rid of him. If you want to run the team, then do it and take all the accolades and criticism that comes with that. That's the only reason I respect Jerry Jones. He runs his team, everyone knows he runs his team, he answers to the media.

 

He does with Garrett. He didn't with Jimmy. I think they won more around then. ;-)

 

But I agree, love how cuban he owns it. He sucks lol.

[adambr2]

You know who would be a Dallas Maverick if Cuban just trusted his GM? Giannis Antetokounmpo.

[TJseven7]

You know who would be a Dallas Maverick if Cuban just trusted his GM? Giannis Antetokounmpo.

 

Thank you Cuban!!! Mke'd have portis over vaughn that I know.

 

The buffalo bills... here's a fun one. Whaley wanted Dak... Rex demanded Ragland and owner broke the tie... trade up. Dak to dallas as the 4th buffalo had was traded... ragland gone in 1 year. 1 year later... whaley threw a fit screaming take mahomes or fire me. Had him top 5... I had mahomes 2 and at 1 I'd have been sweating. Coach owner traded down. Future only knows. Buffalo still has no qb and passes on a starter in the 4th and, in my opinion a future hof'er. Good work coach owner.

[brooks_quichenick]

So... this Jake Arrieta fella, sure would be nice if he was pitching for the Brewers...

[CheezWizHed]

So... this Jake Arrieta fella, sure would be nice if he was pitching for the Brewers...

 

[sarcasm]Yes, but what does Mark Cuban think about it?[/sarcasm]

[TJseven7]

So... this Jake Arrieta fella, sure would be nice if he was pitching for the Brewers...

 

Depends... who is negotiating the deal? I don't want boras working over our owner.

[superfly]

Who is ilitch... sorry!

 

Tigers former owner who recently passed away. I can't think of an owner more massively involved in FA signings in recent memory. Great owner though.

 

I think it is rather irrelevant though. The names being listed are really extreme examples I think all owners can become involved sometimes. Attanasio didn't seem to be involved in the Cain signing nor trading for Yelich. Deep breath everyone.

 

Thanks.

 

That also brings me back to my point. That you also are making. We're talking 25-30 years here. Brew listed off some absolute Icons in their sports. They are icons because they are the few. Even most of that list leaned on BB/parcells jimmy johnson cowher/tomlin JERRY freaking WEST. Most owners just can't. I'm a huge FO dork especially football and the dysmal embarrassing list of failures of the non icons getting involved is very very long.

 

Mark A doesn't look like hes doing Kohl LED type stuff anymore... but hearing boras talks to him often just fired me up. Its just not his place... even if its minor and mostly harmless. Breathe as in I just did that myself.

 

Chill out. Maybe Mark A TOLD Boras to contact him first. Why bother getting worked up over something totally out of our control?

[brewmann04]

Mark owns the team and maybe they do a one or two year deal

[reillymcshane]

Keep this thread on topic please. If you want to go and make 20+ posts of stuff about Mark Cuban, basketball and football owners, and whatever else - go do it elsewhere. This is the Jake Arrieta rumor thread. Please stop other stuff.

 

We are getting far to many complaints from users about people taking threads off topic like this.

 

If it continues, we will delete all these posts. And if that doesn't stop it, we can always issue bans to repeat offenders.

 

As I said, it's getting tiresome to have to experience this kind of thing every few days. Please make it stop.

[TJseven7]

Ok, Mark A shouldn't be talking to arrietas agent. He has a gm for that.

[pacopete4]

Ok, Mark A shouldn't be talking to arrietas agent. He has a gm for that.

You ever think that Stearns has told Mark that he would like Arrieta? And now Boras is going straight to the money man to decide contract for Arrieta? GM’s have their role to build the team and owners pay for it. Maybe we are down to the owner negotiating what he is willing to pay for said player. Not unheard of by any stretch.