Milwaukee Bucks 2017 - 2018

[patrickgpe]

I didn't care for the pick either. Was hoping for Giles with how the draft stacked up. But in all honestly there wasn't much available when the bucks made their pick.

[FVBrewerFan]

Problem is, who fires Kidd? The org chart for this team bothered me from the beginning. It's how they ended up with Horst, consensus. You have at least three main Owners, the President, GM, who knows who else is involved. I find it impossible to believe Horst can make this decision on his own. So who does? Do 2 of the 3 main Owners have to sign off? Do all three of them need to agree? Who knows.

[homer]

Problem is, who fires Kidd? The org chart for this team bothered me from the beginning. It's how they ended up with Horst, consensus. You have at least three main Owners, the President, GM, who knows who else is involved. I find it impossible to believe Horst can make this decision on his own. So who does? Do 2 of the 3 main Owners have to sign off? Do all three of them need to agree? Who knows.

 

One of the three is "governor". Right now that's Lasry I think. But it changes every five years.

[Baldkin]

Problem is, who fires Kidd? The org chart for this team bothered me from the beginning. It's how they ended up with Horst, consensus. You have at least three main Owners, the President, GM, who knows who else is involved. I find it impossible to believe Horst can make this decision on his own. So who does? Do 2 of the 3 main Owners have to sign off? Do all three of them need to agree? Who knows.

 

It's almost like having too many cooks in the kitchen and too many different voices trying to vie for favor with ownership might cause problems. If only there were a recent 30 year long example of this type of organizational structure causing a team to struggle to succeed.

[FVBrewerFan]

Problem is, who fires Kidd? The org chart for this team bothered me from the beginning. It's how they ended up with Horst, consensus. You have at least three main Owners, the President, GM, who knows who else is involved. I find it impossible to believe Horst can make this decision on his own. So who does? Do 2 of the 3 main Owners have to sign off? Do all three of them need to agree? Who knows.

 

It's almost like having too many cooks in the kitchen and too many different voices trying to vie for favor with ownership might cause problems. If only there were a recent 30 year long example of this type of organizational structure causing a team to struggle to succeed.

 

Exactly, and now the Packers are doing it. Not as bad as the Bucks, but still a funky Org Chart.

[pacopete4]

Should the Bucks target a player like Lauri Markkanen who can rain threes?

[rwa12]

[sarcasm]problem solved, Marshall Plumlee signed to a two way. I wonder how Cleveland and Toronto will answer...[/sarcasm]

[Baldkin]

Should the Bucks target a player like Lauri Markkanen who can rain threes?

 

Why? They have 2 of the top 20 % 3pt shooters in the league but run ZERO offensive sets to get them open 3's. Their offensive sets are built on Mid 1990's staples when illegal defense was a thing.

[pacopete4]

Should the Bucks target a player like Lauri Markkanen who can rain threes?

 

Why? They have 2 of the top 20 % 3pt shooters in the league but run ZERO offensive sets to get them open 3's. Their offensive sets are built on Mid 1990's staples when illegal defense was a thing.

 

Oh. Well, fire Kidd then.

[tmwiese55]

Yea Snell, Brogdon, and Middleton are great spacing and 3 pt threats. I know Mid's percents aren't great this year but that's because he's being used in Kobe iso instead of emphasizing catch/shoot 3s like modern offenses. All the pieces are there, other than needing a backup big to replace Thon, if they ran a real half court offense.

 

Also, why would the Bulls give up Markkanen? And we did target a player like him in Thon, but he's terrible. It's great when the stretch big does pan out, great weapon to have, but if you look around at how many have been getting drafted the last few years vs how many have actually panned out the percent is bad. Mirza is also supposed to be doing that role but he's out.

[TURBO]

I think we miss Monroe more than anyone thought we would.

[nate82]

I think we miss Monroe more than anyone thought we would.

 

Offensively off of the bench sure but Bledsoe has picked that up and then some. Rebounding a little bit but defensively the Bucks are about the same as they were when he was here.

 

They should have tried to get Chandler in that deal. Maybe the Bucks are able to get Jordan from the Clippers but I doubt they will be able to get him. I think Bogut is still available?

[FVBrewerFan]

I think we miss Monroe more than anyone thought we would.

 

Offensively off of the bench sure but Bledsoe has picked that up and then some. Rebounding a little bit but defensively the Bucks are about the same as they were when he was here.

 

They should have tried to get Chandler in that deal. Maybe the Bucks are able to get Jordan from the Clippers but I doubt they will be able to get him. I think Bogut is still available?

 

I'm hoping they have a legit shot at Jordan when he's a FA after this season. Doesn't seem like a guy who wants to come to Milwaukee, but you never know I guess.

[tmwiese55]

I don't see a way to cap space this summer to make a serious run at anyone unless somehow you work out a sign/trade with the team he's leaving.

 

The dream is a Jabari for Lebron sign and trade, lol

[FVBrewerFan]

No expert here in NBA cap, but why would they need to sign and trade? Looks like they have $60MM in cap space for Bledsoe, Middleton, Henson, Delly and Snell next season. All of those guys have value, so you would think they could trade any of them, or more than one to create cap space?

[tmwiese55]

No expert here in NBA cap, but why would they need to sign and trade? Looks like they have $60MM in cap space for Bledsoe, Middleton, Henson, Delly and Snell next season. All of those guys have value, so you would think they could trade any of them, or more than one to create cap space?

 

In the NBA you'd have to take back comparable salary though. You can't just dump them for picks to get cap space. That's why you'd have to sign Jabari to have a contract to match up with someone else's contract in the LBJ example. Or why Chris Paul had to opt into his contract with LAC and then have them trade him to Houston. In your examples, if say DAJ decided on MKE. He could either opt into his player option and then LAC could work out a trade with us and then work out his extension with us. Something like Henson and Mirza and a future pick going back to LAC. Yea, NBA salary cap gets complicated.

[Baldkin]

No expert here in NBA cap, but why would they need to sign and trade? Looks like they have $60MM in cap space for Bledsoe, Middleton, Henson, Delly and Snell next season. All of those guys have value, so you would think they could trade any of them, or more than one to create cap space?

 

They could only trade them to a team with the cap space to take them on... which is like 4 teams (Chicago, Indiana the Lakers and Brooklyn).

 

Those 4 teams are going to pursue for Paul George and LeBron (and others).

 

Why would they take on our crap (Henson, Delly, Snell, Teletovic) for nothing? That means trading Brogdon, their only talented guy on a rookie deal or a draft pick.

 

The Bucks have already traded their 2018 first, which means the next one they can trade is 2020. Their last 3 first round draft picks are currently sitting at negative value (with Vaughn being a FA after this season).

 

Sure, the team could give away Bledsoe and Middleton and probably get a pick back, but unless they did that with both, they won't have max cap-space available.

 

None of this includes the fact that Jabari is an RFA after the season and will probably be looking to get a max (or near-max) deal from one of the previous 4 teams I mentioned.

[superfly]

No expert here in NBA cap, but why would they need to sign and trade? Looks like they have $60MM in cap space for Bledsoe, Middleton, Henson, Delly and Snell next season. All of those guys have value, so you would think they could trade any of them, or more than one to create cap space?

 

They could only trade them to a team with the cap space to take them on... which is like 4 teams (Chicago, Indiana the Lakers and Brooklyn).

 

Those 4 teams are going to pursue for Paul George and LeBron (and others).

 

Why would they take on our crap (Henson, Delly, Snell, Teletovic) for nothing? That means trading Brogdon, their only talented guy on a rookie deal or a draft pick.

 

The Bucks have already traded their 2018 first, which means the next one they can trade is 2020. Their last 3 first round draft picks are currently sitting at negative value (with Vaughn being a FA after this season).

 

Sure, the team could give away Bledsoe and Middleton and probably get a pick back, but unless they did that with both, they won't have max cap-space available.

 

None of this includes the fact that Jabari is an RFA after the season and will probably be looking to get a max (or near-max) deal from one of the previous 4 teams I mentioned.

 

Who is giving Jabari a max type deal? The guy has had 2 serious knee injuries and played 25/82, 76/82/ 51/82, and 0/43 games in his 4 seasons. I know one team that shouldn't be and that's the Milwaukee Bucks, I don't care how much the dude likes Milwaukee and how great he is of a person. We need to see health and production.

[Baldkin]

Who is giving Jabari a max type deal? The guy has had 2 serious knee injuries and played 25/82, 76/82/ 51/82, and 0/43 games in his 4 seasons. I know one team that shouldn't be and that's the Milwaukee Bucks, I don't care how much the dude likes Milwaukee and how great he is of a person. We need to see health and production.

 

Have you watched what this front office has done over the past 4 years?

They are incompetent.

 

Jabari is a restricted free agent. Someone will give him at least a 20m/yr offer sheet, and I'd wager the Bucks will match.

 

Edit: Assuming he comes back and looks like a legit scorer like he did last season.

 

Heck, they should've been looking to move Jabari from the first day he came back from his knee injury to get out from under all the bad money they dumped into the great off season of cap space.

 

Steve Kyler (a pretty plugged in NBA guy) recently stated:

 

(Jabari is) Not someone they want to move - trying to get him healthy.

[tmwiese55]

The big fear on Jabari is that the Bulls are one of the few teams with massive cap space. All it takes is one team to give him a big deal and you have to match. I'm in agreeance that if he wouldn't sign a team friendly deal before the deadline back in November-ish that he should have been their top trade chip. Maybe he has been but nothing has worked out, who knows. I at least give them credit for not caving at the extension deadline and making him play out the year, past Bucks regimes would have just handed him 120 mil no questions asked.

[FVBrewerFan]

Jabari is a tough call. If I knew he would stay healthy, I would give him a big deal and move Middleton. FWIW, they showed Jabari working out before the game the other day, he is trimmed down...looks great.

 

So if I understand the cap right (thanks for running through it guys) the Bucks really don't have much room to maneuver next season? I get that they can trade contract for contract, but sounds like they won't be able to sign a big name FA?

[tmwiese55]

Yes, that is correct. However they're allowed to go over the cap to re-sign their own guys, in this case Jabari.

 

Yea it's a very tough spot to be in with Jabari. Seems like a great kid and obviously was doing well before the 2nd tear. However, two tears in one knee is a big deal and really no NBA player has ever really come back from it near what they were. But no one else has done it such a young age before either so he has that going. Personally, I wanted to trade him after he came back the first time and showed he was healthy due to fearing this situation now and that I thought his skills/position is redundant with Giannis and Mid already. And we desperately needed a PG at the time. And at this point I'd still be on the trade side as I'd just like to remove this variable from Giannis' prime. Essentially just cashing out and moving on, making the best of what we can get back. If he stays healthy and does well elsewhere good for him, I hope he does. But even if he comes back and looks great you still have the constant fear of a 3rd tear and 20+mil in dead cap space during Giannis' time here. That's tough for GMs to do though as if he blows up elsewhere it's an embarrassment to them.

[GAME05]

Ultimately I want Jabari back because I like to root for good people and he seems like the rare player who genuinely enjoys Milwaukee. But even at full strength you've still got the issue of his atrocious defense. Maybe a different defensive system will help him, but he's probably always going to be a liability at that end.

 

There's just something of a disappointing feeling with the Bucks for me right now. They used to be such an up-and-coming team but it's feeling again like they're back to the Kohl days of being permanently mediocre. They've got obvious holes on the team which will keep them from really contending, no cap space to just go and add anybody good, but also no high draft picks to look forward to.

[Baldkin]

Ultimately I want Jabari back because I like to root for good people and he seems like the rare player who genuinely enjoys Milwaukee. But even at full strength you've still got the issue of his atrocious defense. Maybe a different defensive system will help him, but he's probably always going to be a liability at that end.

 

There's just something of a disappointing feeling with the Bucks for me right now. They used to be such an up-and-coming team but it's feeling again like they're back to the Kohl days of being permanently mediocre. They've got obvious holes on the team which will keep them from really contending, no cap space to just go and add anybody good, but also no high draft picks to look forward to.

 

It's almost as if they squandered assets over the last 3.5 years and got almost nothing in return.

 

Like, say Cap Space (Delly, Teletovic, Plumlee, Henson, Snell), or first round draft picks (Wilson, Thon, Vaughn, Traded one for Vasquez, traded one for MCW, traded one for Bledsoe).

 

Trading talented veterans for nothing: Dudley, Zaza, Ersan.

 

Really, the only thing(s) personnel-wise the new regime has done right is... what? Drafting Brogdon, trading Knight, and probably trading for Bledsoe.

[superfly]

Ultimately I want Jabari back because I like to root for good people and he seems like the rare player who genuinely enjoys Milwaukee. But even at full strength you've still got the issue of his atrocious defense. Maybe a different defensive system will help him, but he's probably always going to be a liability at that end.

 

There's just something of a disappointing feeling with the Bucks for me right now. They used to be such an up-and-coming team but it's feeling again like they're back to the Kohl days of being permanently mediocre. They've got obvious holes on the team which will keep them from really contending, no cap space to just go and add anybody good, but also no high draft picks to look forward to.

 

I think its hangover waiting for the new building. I feel the same but other than Thon not progressing as fast as I hoped I don't really see anything that disappoints me.