Milwaukee Bucks 2017 - 2018

[CheezWizHed]

Seems like we have a systemic problem with starting poorly in Q1. Sometimes we recover, sometimes we don't.

[JohnBriggs12]

There's still something missing with the Bucks franchise that a new venue isn't going to solve. Hard to put a finger on it, but they haven't found the solution.

[GAME05]

They guy they put on Giannis was great at preventing the post-ups the previous two games, so no surprise he was starting Game 7 and did another good job defending. So what do you do when the defender is good against iso ball? You run more iso ball, of course! I don't really think it's anything against Giannis at all that he didn't dominate, but more a function of not doing anything to give Giannis different looks.

 

There's enough talent in Milwaukee. I'm convinced a good coach will solve everything.

 

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they moved Bledsoe this offseason since they've got no FA money to work with. A couple months ago I'd have said Middleton, but after this playoff performance maybe they see him as more an integral piece on the team. Bledsoe to Brogdon is obviously a downgrade and they'd have no creative PGs, but there would be a tremendous upgrade to replacing Henson with a stout defender and rebounder.

[pacopete4]

I know, I know... it’s Lebron James but what he’s doing right now is what I somewhat expected form Giannis last night. Whether he wins this game or not, he will be a huge reason why. I can’t say the same about Giannis last night. Disappeared at times.

[CheezWizHed]

Lebron James was actually known for disappearing in big games when he was younger. Then running off the court.

[pacopete4]

Lebron James was actually known for disappearing in big games when he was younger. Then running off the court.

Maybe in the finals. Not the first round. He at least carried his team a distance.

[superfly]

They guy they put on Giannis was great at preventing the post-ups the previous two games, so no surprise he was starting Game 7 and did another good job defending. So what do you do when the defender is good against iso ball? You run more iso ball, of course! I don't really think it's anything against Giannis at all that he didn't dominate, but more a function of not doing anything to give Giannis different looks.

 

There's enough talent in Milwaukee. I'm convinced a good coach will solve everything.

 

I wouldn't be terribly surprised if they moved Bledsoe this offseason since they've got no FA money to work with. A couple months ago I'd have said Middleton, but after this playoff performance maybe they see him as more an integral piece on the team. Bledsoe to Brogdon is obviously a downgrade and they'd have no creative PGs, but there would be a tremendous upgrade to replacing Henson with a stout defender and rebounder.

 

 

Who is Bledsoe?

[TURBO]

When I watch this team, the thought that constantly enters my mind is that they are soft. This is just not a physically tough team.

[homer]

When I watch this team, the thought that constantly enters my mind is that they are soft. This is just not a physically tough team.

 

They really need a banger down low to defend and rebound. Maker has a place on this team but not as a starting center.

[FVBrewerFan]

Henson plays solid post defense. The whole structure of the defense was the biggest problem.

 

On offense, again, a new coach alone will really help. But they need shooters, plain and simple. Any idea how many assists and secondary assists Giannis could/ would have if this team had 3 point shooters like practically every other team?

 

They should be open to trading anyone not named Giannis. Yes even Middleton. It's not that I want o get rid of him, but you have to give up quality to get quality. And for the right deal, yea I would be open to that. Bledsoe definitely needs to go.

[Baldkin]

They have plenty of shooters. Their coach spent 4 years telling them not to shoot and telling them "The closer to the hoop you are the more dangerous you are." This coach who had no idea the difference between a good decision and a good result.

 

Snell went from a guy who was looking to fire up every 3 he got to being completely scared to shoot the ball.

[FVBrewerFan]

They have plenty of shooters. Their coach spent 4 years telling them not to shoot and telling them "The closer to the hoop you are the more dangerous you are." This coach who had no idea the difference between a good decision and a good result.

 

Snell went from a guy who was looking to fire up every 3 he got to being completely scared to shoot the ball.

 

I don't buy that at all. I'm no Kidd fan, but he never had a problem with guys taking a 3. Snell took plenty of 3s in the playoffs, just couldn't make any.

 

Again, I do believe a new coach/offense will help with guys like Brogdon. But they need 4-6 guys who can bury a 3 like most other teams. The Bucks don't have that now, they just don't.

[Baldkin]

They have plenty of shooters. Their coach spent 4 years telling them not to shoot and telling them "The closer to the hoop you are the more dangerous you are." This coach who had no idea the difference between a good decision and a good result.

 

Snell went from a guy who was looking to fire up every 3 he got to being completely scared to shoot the ball.

 

I don't buy that at all. I'm no Kidd fan, but he never had a problem with guys taking a 3. Snell took plenty of 3s in the playoffs, just couldn't make any.

 

Again, I do believe a new coach/offense will help with guys like Brogdon. But they need 4-6 guys who can bury a 3 like most other teams. The Bucks don't have that now, they just don't.

 

Middleton, Snell, Brogdon, Jabari, Delly, Sterling Brown.

 

That's an easy 6. Not listed: Thon, Teletovic, Terry.

 

Jason Kidd ran an archaic offense that didn't encourage players to shoot 3's. They were 5th from the bottom in 3's attempted and were 22nd in 3pt percentage, which was dragged down by their 2 their top 5 shooters by volume being really, really bad at it (Bledsoe and Giannis).

[coolhandluke121]

Those guys aren't really good shooters. It's a dynamic concept that requires you to consider how much spacing they provide and how much defenses pay attention to them. Guys like Delly, Snell, Jabari, and Brown don't draw defenses away from Giannis. They shoot when they're wide open and they're wide open a lot because defenses prefer to sag on Giannis and live with them getting open 3's. Being able to hit in the high 30's doesn't always mean you're a valuable shooter. You have to get open fast and shoot with defenders close to you and still be able to hit in the high 30's to really provide spacing.

 

Khris is the only guy on the team who fits that profile, even though he struggled from 3 this year. Terry did in his prime. Mirza was a guy who could hit in the high 30's on very high volume with defenses paying constant attention to him. Same with Delfino. Ersan had tremendous value because he was a PF able to hit over 40% on high volume. That's the type of shooter you need to provide spacing for Giannis. Those guys would have hit close to 50% of their 3's if they only took wide open ones like most of the so-called "shooters" on the Bucks. But then they would never be wide open, which is the point - to draw defenses away from Giannis (and Bledsoe, if they keep him).

[DuWayne Steurer]

Yeah, there's a huge difference between being able to shoot a 3, and being a shooter. Snell is not a shooter. He can put it up there, and he has a decent percentage, but I don't believe he fits the mold of the modern shooter in the way the game is played now. I don't know exactly what Snell actually does at this point.

 

This roster is a mess right now. Middleton clearly fills the role of Giannis' sidekick that Parker was meant to fill. Parker is unnecessary and needs to go. As others have said, there is zero physical presence inside. Henson and Maker are ok players, but they simply can not bang with the big guys in the middle. They are decent scoring opportunists, and can both play passable defense and grab a board, but they just aren't a physical presence like you'd want out of a true center. Snell and Delevadova are just bodies. They don't draw defenders away from anyone, don't board or do anything. Dele at least plays a bit of defense, but the way this team plays, it doesn't matter, they're so disjointed and whatnot, what one guy is doing just doesn't matter.

 

I was excited when we snagged Bledsoe. I've always liked him, and actually coveted him when he was available before. But watching him this year.. he just isn't what I thought we were getting.

[Baldkin]

How many shooters does Houston have around Harden and Paul?

[monkeyman343434]

How many shooters does Houston have around Harden and Paul?

 

PLAYER 3PA/G 3PM/G %

James Harden 3.7 10.0 36.7

Eric Gordon 3.2 8.8 35.9

Gerald Green 2.7 7.3 36.9

Chris Paul 2.5 6.5 38.0

Trevor Ariza 2.5 6.9 36.8

Ryan Anderson 2.0 5.1 38.6

 

TOTAL TEAM 15.3 42.3 36.2

 

BUCKS 8.8 24.7 35.5

[Baldkin]

How many shooters does Houston have around Harden and Paul?

 

PLAYER 3PA/G 3PM/G %

James Harden 3.7 10.0 36.7

Eric Gordon 3.2 8.8 35.9

Gerald Green 2.7 7.3 36.9

Chris Paul 2.5 6.5 38.0

Trevor Ariza 2.5 6.9 36.8

Ryan Anderson 2.0 5.1 38.6

 

TOTAL TEAM 15.3 42.3 36.2

 

BUCKS 8.8 24.7 35.5

 

Yep. None of those guys are "shooters", at least whatever the definition of "shooter" is.

 

If it's someone who shoots a lot of 3 pointers, well, that's their SYSTEM not the players.

 

Those guys have literally been coached for 2 years to "let it fly".

[rwa12]

While I see the point you are making, Gordon and Anderson are true 3 point shooters. That’s about all Anderson can do.

[CheezWizHed]

So your evidence is that 6 Houston players shoot at 35.9% or better?

 

Hear are the six Bucks at 35.9% or better:

Khris Middleton .359

Malcolm Brogdon .385

Jabari Parker .383

Mirza Teletovic .467 (small sample last year, but 37% career)

Tony Snell .403

Matthew Dellavedova .372

 

I'm not saying we couldn't use better shooters, but our offense has been rather 3ptr adverse.

[adambr2]

Boston dismantling the 76ers makes me feel a little better about our series.

[coolhandluke121]

So your evidence is that 6 Houston players shoot at 35.9% or better?

 

Hear are the six Bucks at 35.9% or better:

Khris Middleton .359

Malcolm Brogdon .385

Jabari Parker .383

Mirza Teletovic .467 (small sample last year, but 37% career)

Tony Snell .403

Matthew Dellavedova .372

 

I'm not saying we couldn't use better shooters, but our offense has been rather 3ptr adverse.

 

But it's much easier to have a high percentage if you don't shoot them often. That's one of the reasons the Bucks don't shoot them nearly as often as Houston. You can't just tell Snell and Dellavedova and Jabari to start letting if fly like the Rockets. Their percentages would fall into the low 30's. And most of them aren't fast enough to get open for that many 3's anyway.

[coolhandluke121]

How many shooters does Houston have around Harden and Paul?

 

Many, and they're better than Milwaukee's because they're able to sustain those percentages on very high volume. Also, maybe if the Bucks had two of the best offensive pg's in NBA history, it wouldn't matter so much anyway. Furthermore, Houston is not built around a superstar who needs to be surrounded by really good shooters to be great. It's inexcusable how the Bucks have built the team around Giannis.

 

I understand why fans might mistake percentages with no context for being a good 3-point shooter, but it bothers me that the front office does the same thing.

[CheezWizHed]

But it's much easier to have a high percentage if you don't shoot them often.

 

I was expecting this argument. What is your evidence that this is true? Or at least your reasoning why?

 

If you mean that we start jacking up bad opportunities just to increase the 3s/game, I would agree with you. But if the offense runs more plays with the intent to get people good 3 point opportunities and promote shooting them, the percentages shouldn't vary that much. And that was the main point... we don't have an offense that focuses on 3s.

 

And to reiterate, i didn't make the argument to say our shooters are good so don't add more. I was only trying to compare that our shooters accuracy isn't all that far off of Houston's. Probably the main difference is that Harden is a good 3 point shooter and Giannis is not. Imagine Giannis' threat if you couldn't give him 10 feet when he is beyond the arc.

[CheezWizHed]

So I looked up some of our other players to see the impact of them playing with the Bucks vs elsewhere:

 

Teletovic:

-- 3 seasons with Brookland: 3.9 3PA; 36.2%

-- 2 seasons with the Bucks: 4.4 3PA; 35.7%

-- 1 season with Phoenix: 5.8 3PA; 39.3%

 

Snell:

-- 3 seasons with the Bulls: 2.5 3PA; 35.1%

-- 2 seasons with the Bucks: 4.0 3PA; 40.4%

 

Dellavedova:

-- 3 seasons with Cleveland: 2.6 3PA; 39.8%

-- 2 seasons with the Bucks: 2.6 3PA; 36.9%

 

Middleton

-- 1 season with the Pistons: 1.7 3PA; 31.1% (only 27 games)

-- 4 seasons with the Bucks: 4.1 3PA; 39.4%

 

Limit samples of course since I only picked Bucks players that played somewhere else. But no evidence that more (good) three point attempts will reduce the percentages.

 

The bigger problem is that most of our decent three point shooters are deficient in other areas of the game. Middleton, Brogdon and Parker are really the only ones that you want on the court for an extended period of time.