The Flaws of the Cubs, and can the Brewers avoid similar mistakes?

[bill hAll Star]

If you could get a left-handed DH that can put up a .250/.370 line with 40-45 HR...isn't that more valuable than Broxton and probably Aguilar? Aguilar is on the wrong side of the platoon and 3 years older...and does not have the HR power or on-base ability of Schwarber if Schwarber is right.

 

Really depends on what you're looking for and how you project each player. Schwarber could reach the line you stated, and Broxton could hit .250/.340 with 30 HR and 30 SB while playing good defense at all three OF positions allowing a team to rotate their OF/DH to keep everyone fresh. Or, either one could end with a career average around .200. If Schwarber only hits around .200 then he's basically a Chris Carter type, and we saw how much value teams give those players these days. If Broxton only hits around .200, then at least he can add some value on defense and the basepaths.

 

I think that either of these players will have to prove themselves some more before anyone will give up good value for them. Schwarber may get a little more right now because he was higher rated as a prospect and hit a World Series HR that people remember, but I don't think he has nearly the value he had two years ago. Plus, his market is limited to the AL, because he is horrible on defense.

 

But all it takes is one GM who loves the potential and either of these guys could bring back more than I expect.

 

Part of your guys' annoyance with Schwarber being overrated coming up may be due to the fact that he played catcher. Even if he was a bad catcher, teams would probably take a shot on a catcher that could hit 45 homers.

 

Schwarber is 24 and put up video game numbers all the way through the minors.

 

Broxton is 27 and put up decent numbers all the way through the minors until he got to Colorado Springs where they got the CS inflation.

 

Now, nobody is saying that Schwarber will hit over .335 with a .430 OBP like he did in the minors, but I think that is what is leading the potential talks.

 

Broxton is a finished product. He's a right-handed platoon hitter that helps on the basepaths and can play decent defense at a premium position.

 

Schwarber had struggles after missing nearly a full season of baseball with an injury (and bad BABIP luck) and got back to what he put up in his rookie season in the second half.

 

I would expect Broxton to put up the .250/.320/.430 line if he was mostly shielded from right-handed pitching.

 

I would rather bet on Schwarber sticking at the .250/.350/.475 line he showed his rookie year and got back to in the second half of 2017 and he's a lefty, so he doesn't have to sit nearly as often to avoid bad situations at the plate.

 

It's possible that he regresses and ends up being Oswaldo Arcia, but I'm willing to bet on him being the player that he's been 66% of the time he's been in the majors and potentially improving. He slugged .560 in the second half this year with a nearly .340 OBP.

 

Like I said, it's a risk...but it's one that has payoff for Schwarber. Keon Broxton is a trade chip basically to a team that needs a cheap 5th OF that they can play against lefties.

[3and2Fastball]

Could see Schwarber plus something to the Red Sox for Price....

 

The Cubs are stuck with less than elite pitching and not enough ammunition via the farm system to trade for great pitching. Not likely to buy their way out of the hole they dug for themselves to win another World Series in the Bryant/Rizzo window

[bill hAll Star]

Could see Schwarber plus something to the Red Sox for Price....

 

The Cubs are stuck with less than elite pitching and not enough ammunition via the farm system to trade for great pitching. Not likely to buy their way out of the hole they dug for themselves to win another World Series in the Bryant/Rizzo window

 

That trade makes a lot of sense for both sides. Obviously Boston will try to hold them over the fire for more prospects knowing that the Cubs are desperate for better pitching. The Cubs will want some $ thrown in.

[adambr2]

As someone who has said I would understand the Brewers 'going for it' on someone like Machado if it brought a World Series to Milwaukee, I want to point out a few things:

 

1. - Gleyber Torres looks like he's going to be a star.

2. - Jorge Soler looks like a really high level young outfielder.

3 - The Cubs have currently nothing to show for these two as far as their roster goes. Torres was used purely for a rental. Soler did buy a year of Wade Davis but he's gone now.

 

I understand they won the World Series in 2016 and you can't really quantify that against what they gave up. Still you can't help but wonder if they had held their ground on these two what the Central would look like now and if they'd be far and away the team to beat in the NL.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

As someone who has said I would understand the Brewers 'going for it' on someone like Machado if it brought a World Series to Milwaukee, I want to point out a few things:

 

1. - Gleyber Torres looks like he's going to be a star.

2. - Jorge Soler looks like a really high level young outfielder.

3 - The Cubs have currently nothing to show for these two as far as their roster goes. Torres was used purely for a rental. Soler did buy a year of Wade Davis but he's gone now.

 

I understand they won the World Series in 2016 and you can't really quantify that against what they gave up. Still you can't help but wonder if they had held their ground on these two what the Central would look like now and if they'd be far and away the team to beat in the NL.

 

Being as that is the ultimate goal of player acquisition, I would say the Cubs are OK with it. They don't win the 2016 Series without Chapman, and Torres wasn't going to help them that season. Davis didn't quite get them to that same point, but they came close. I doubt they are kicking themselves over either move.

[KeithStone53151]

As someone who has said I would understand the Brewers 'going for it' on someone like Machado if it brought a World Series to Milwaukee, I want to point out a few things:

 

1. - Gleyber Torres looks like he's going to be a star.

2. - Jorge Soler looks like a really high level young outfielder.

3 - The Cubs have currently nothing to show for these two as far as their roster goes. Torres was used purely for a rental. Soler did buy a year of Wade Davis but he's gone now.

 

I understand they won the World Series in 2016 and you can't really quantify that against what they gave up. Still you can't help but wonder if they had held their ground on these two what the Central would look like now and if they'd be far and away the team to beat in the NL.

 

I personally think keeping those pieces would have helped create a package to trade for Chris Sale, a multi-year asset and stud pitcher. They definitely could have beaten the Red Sox offer, can you imagine if they had him in their rotation rather than Quintana or Darvish? Heck maybe not having to pay for Darvish enables them to actually sign Harper rather than dream about it like fools. Also in the Chris Sale deal, maybe they find a way to include Robertson or Kahnle to help the back end of the bullpen.

 

Some level of trading was always going to have to happen for the Cubs, but had they been more patient they could have made better judgement calls on their trades and maximized their value.

 

Also don't forget about Eloy and Cease. Especially Eloy, that guy is going to be a star...possibly a better player than Torres.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Also don't forget about Eloy and Cease.

 

To me that's the trade that sticks out as a problem for the Cubs longterm, and I've felt that way since it happened last summer - they don't win it all in 2016 without Aroldis, and they weren't going to get him without including Torres unless they would've sent other young position player talent to the Yankees like Baez or Russell - both of which were key parts of the WS winning team. It's weird to say, but Torres would still be blocked at the MLB level with the Cubs, or his emergence would have otherwise forced other trades to happen in order to clear room for him.

 

Eloy Jimenez is going to be a monster - and Quintana has been underwhelming thus far with the Cubs aside from games he pitches against the Brewers. That trade last year bolstered their rotation, but I'd argue it made their overall organization weaker. The Cubs' signing of Heyward a few offseasons ago likely prompted the other prospects like Soler and Jimenez to be dealt to improve their pitching, and that has blown up on them a bit. They still have frontline talent across their gameday roster, but no longer have quality depth behind it. A couple key injuries, particularly on the pitching front, and their lack of depth will get exposed later this summer.

 

The Cubs are still extremely weak in the upper minors, so any deadline trades that will have major implications will almost certainly need to be headlined by a player or two currently on their MLB roster, plus including high risk/high reward talent in the minors that should be very tough for Theo and company to want to trade. Making too many of those deals involving shipping out talented players still years away from making an MLB impact is risky for any organization's longterm future.

[reillymcshane]

The main flaw of the Cubs is the they have the word 'Chicago' in their name.

 

At least we've avoided that horrendous issue.

[trwi7]

The main flaw of the Cubs is the they have the word 'Chicago' in their name.

 

At least we've avoided that horrendous issue.

 

Fun fact: Chicago or what we know as Chicago today was almost part of Wisconsin.

[YelichPosse]

The main flaw of the Cubs is the they have the word 'Chicago' in their name.

 

At least we've avoided that horrendous issue.

 

Fun fact: Chicago or what we know as Chicago today was almost part of Wisconsin.

 

I am glad it is not. Although it's effect is wide reaching, unfortunately.

[liveforoctober]

That Heyward contract is such a beautiful thing to look at and know we get to do so for another 5 seasons...

[Thurston Fluff]

That Heyward contract is such a beautiful thing to look at and know we get to do so for another 5 seasons...

 

I have a feeling we will be saying the same thing about Darvis in a year or two. For all the hype they got a few years ago for their strong minor league system they sure had to spend a lot of money to fill holes. It almost seems like they built their team using outdated strategies. It seems like high end starters are not as necessary as they used to be. Going deep into games isn't all that necessary anymore. Yet the Cubs spent boatloads of money and resources on them.

[Ennder]

The Cubs had some flaws in how they handled their roster which took them from a dynasty looking team to just a really good for 5 year type of team. They were completely correct to do it to try to maximize their chances at a world series and the fact they won one makes it even easier of a win for them. They didn't do anything wrong with how they went for it, I just could have seen a scenario where they didn't have to sell the farm to win one.