The Flaws of the Cubs, and can the Brewers avoid similar mistakes?

[Invader3K]

Two World Series appearances, one championship...I wish the Brewers were so "flawed."

 

I sometimes seriously wonder if I'll ever live to see the Brewers win a World Series. I'm in my late 30's.

[Patrick425]

Two World Series appearances, one championship...I wish the Brewers were so "flawed."

 

I sometimes seriously wonder if I'll ever live to see the Brewers win a World Series. I'm in my late 30's.

 

 

I'm assuming you meant two "recent" playoff (not WS) appearances. Unless you were talking in their entire history, but even then, they have been in a lot more than than 2 WS.

[paul253]

Can we please stop comparing ourselves to the Cubs? They can strategize differently than we can due to economics of baseball. They don’t need a consistently strong farm system as much as we do. I feel like posters here are trying to make themselves feel better about our lack of success by convincing themselves that our future is brighter. Back in the mid 2000s our future also looked much better and what did we get? Two playoff appearances and one division championship. And why did we get it, by the way? Because we traded the farm for one player on two separate occasions. The Cubs have made the NLCS three consecutive years and won a World Series in the process. I’d be absolutely fine with us using the same strategy if we could, but we can’t which, again, is why I think we should stop comparing ourselves to the Cubs.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Cubs have made it to the NLCS the past three seasons, winning the World Series in 2016. The only reason some see "flaws" in how they've been in contention as Brewer fans is the perspective that they basically have emptied their farm system over the past few years with callups (Bryant, Happ, Schwarber, Contreras, Edwards, Russell, & Baez) and trades to bring in pitching (Torres, Soler, Jimenez, Cease, Candelario, others). We're kidding ourselves with thinking our farm system outlook is as rosy as what the Cubs was 4-5 seasons ago when all their young talent acquired by a combination of drafting, international signings, and trades started moving into the big leagues.

 

This offseason, the Cubs are going to need to trade at least one of Schwarber, Almora or Happ - my money is on Schwarber because he simply doesn't have a defensive position and the NL doesn't have a DH. Any of them should be able to headline a trade that would sent pitching talent back to Chicago. The current state of their team is very similar to when the Red Sox had to do some retooling between their 1st and 2nd titles under Epstein - since the Cubs play in the same sandbox as the Red Sox in terms of finances, it's not like they're going to need a 3-4 season rebuild phase between contention regardless of what their farm system looks like. Big market teams use the rest of MLB as their farm system because they can spend if they need to.

[brewcrewdue80]

Being honest, the Brewers already avoided the mistake when they didn't part ways with any top 10 prospect in trades. They are vastly set up pitching wise over the Cubs at any point in their rebuild and that's with Milwaukee having missed on every single 1st round draft choice since Braun essentially. Cubs immediately seen success from Baez, Bryant, Schwarber, and Happ in some form during the last 3 seasons. And also found a way to nab Anthony Rizzo with Cashner a 1st pick that really began this team.

 

We've certainly had the better luck on 2nd round selections, but oof on the 1st!

 

One would have to think some of the Brass working for Stearns, if not he himself, has also thought to themselves the Cubs dire situation moving forward after these last 2 seasons of trades. They haven't a single top 100 prospect, pitching devoit and for quite some time. It really makes sense why they made the move for Q, because they were staring at 2 SPs for 2018 and beyond before opening the wallet to the tune of 20+mil a year to aging FAs.

 

We clearly don't have the monetary resources to cover up mistakes during the rebuild and trades. One can assume the Cubs will spend on a SP as well as a bullpen arm, Holland as well to Davis.

 

With how great a job Stearns has done, I mean think about it, Thornburg for Shaw+. Gotta feel pretty safe that moves with the system's depth or depth on the team will lead to more promise in the future, over future despair.

[clancyphile]

Being honest, the Brewers already avoided the mistake when they didn't part ways with any top 10 prospect in trades. They are vastly set up pitching wise over the Cubs at any point in their rebuild and that's with Milwaukee having missed on every single 1st round draft choice since Braun essentially. Cubs immediately seen success from Baez, Bryant, Schwarber, and Happ in some form during the last 3 seasons. And also found a way to nab Anthony Rizzo with Cashner a 1st pick that really began this team.

 

We've certainly had the better luck on 2nd round selections, but oof on the 1st!

 

Well, I'd say hit-and-miss is more accurate.

 

Technically, I'd say the jury is still out on Coulter (not optimistic), Meideros (not optimistic), Gatewood (optimistic), Kirby (not optimistic), Trent Clark (optimistic), Corey Ray (make or break), Hiura (optimistic), and Lutz (very optimistic).

 

Hits

Jeremy Jeffress has been a valuable contributor in the bullpen and was in two consequential deals - bringing Zach Grienke in one, and Ortiz/Brinson is another - and he's back with the Crew.

 

Taylor Jungmann pitched well one year, and struggled the next, but even if he's Matt Garza 2016, he'd still have value insofar as he saves the Brewers at least $10 million/year

 

Dealt for Parts/Indirect hits

Odorozzi was also part of the Greinke trade, and LaPorta brought Sabathia to the Crew. Both helped the Brewers reach the playoffs.

 

Lawrie brought Bush to the Crew for 2011. Ditto above.

 

Haniger was dealt for Gerardo Parra, and Parra brought Zach Davies, currently a solid part of the rotation.

 

Busts

 

Frederickson, Kentrail Davis, Heckathorn, Jed Bradley, and Roache all didn't make it.

[KeithStone53151]

Two World Series appearances, one championship...I wish the Brewers were so "flawed."

 

I sometimes seriously wonder if I'll ever live to see the Brewers win a World Series. I'm in my late 30's.

 

It's hard to say the overall decision making in the Cubs front office was terrible. That said, I think the Cubs made a number of mistakes especially over the last 2 years that put them on a path to a total tear down in a year or two. Imagine if they hadn't traded Chapman and used Torres/Jimenez/Cease to get Sale instead? They probably don't win in 2016, but they might have won it all this year and would be in a much better position to win going forward. Also imagine if they traded Schwarber after the 2016 season as they should have. Schwarber is a DH on a non-DH team. His value was sky-high after that world series, heck they could have probably done the Chapman trade and used Schwarber/Jimenez/Cease to get Sale and Robertson. Sure Schwarber could have done what Khris Davis did when he left and not been bad like he was this year, but trading Schwarber made way too much sense on paper. I think Schwarber bounces back and is fine, but they aren't getting 2016 value for him if they move him now.

 

The cubs were always planning on trading Jimenez/Cease/Torres/etc for pitching and going the "window" route. That's been roughly the plan since probably 2013/2014. I feel like they didn't maximize their window with their prospects, especially given the resources at their disposal. Their options at this point are to splurge like crazy this off season and get at least one of Darvish/Arrieta and probably 2 high end relievers in FA, or to trade some position player talent for pitching while making some FA signings. Either way, their best case scenario is probably to extend their window to 2019 or 2020 at best(when I say extend their window, I don't expect them to be favorites anymore...they simply will have a competitive team with a good not great chance to win the division)...at which point they will probably be awful and in top 5 pick territory again as Rizzo/Bryant leave or get traded. Epstein will also probably leave at this point, just like in Boston.

[monty57]

So, what exactly are the expectations for the Brewers once everything comes together....that they make and win the WS every year? The Cubs won the WS last year and made it to the NLCS this year. Flaws? Really?

 

14 or so months ago, the Cubs were on their way to a 100-win season with probably a Top 5 farm system, looking like they could dominate baseball for a decade. Now they have some big holes, their core is getting more expensive leading to a decision on whether they'll want to go over the luxury tax in a couple of seasons, and they have probably a bottom 5 farm system.

 

I care about this insomuch as how it effects the Brewers. In 2016, the Brewers were not in the discussion, so it didn't matter how good the Cubs were. This season, the Brewers surprised people, and the Cubs overpaid for help at least partly because they needed to keep ahead of the Brewers. This makes the tough job of keeping up with them in the coming years a little easier.

 

This offseason, the Brewers are going to increase their payroll, presumably filling in some of their holes in hopes of being a better team in 2018. Meanwhile, the Cubs will have to spend a lot of money, and probably trade away some of their MLB talent just to have five guys to put in their rotation next year. Even if they trade a MLB guy, I don't know if they have enough prospects to land someone like Archer. I think they're going to have to spend $20-25M a year to get Arrieta or Darvish. The MLB guy they'd trade would probably be to bring back a lesser talent so they don't have to start Montgomery. That would certainly make them the favorites to win the division in 2018, but it will likely mean that in a couple of years they will have a couple of old, high priced guys in their rotation that could really hurt them.

 

The Brewers can't build like the Cubs because they don't have the money. But they do have a lot of budget room in their current payroll, so they can start to improve through free agency, and they have a strong farm. They can afford to trade away some prospects for MLB help, as they have the luxury of having so many prospects that they are going to start losing talented players to Rule 5 before too long. The key will be in figuring out which prospects they need to hold onto to keep a steady stream of talent pouring onto the MLB roster annually. The rest of the guys can be used in trade. With some moves this offseason, the Brewers could be a better team in 2018 than they were in 2017, while if the Cubs don't find a way to replace Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis, they will not be as good in 2018 as they were in 2017.

 

The moves the Cubs have made over the past 1.5 years have helped win them to win a World Series and to hold off the Brewers for a division title this year. They have also made it more of a possibility that the Brewers will be able to win some division titles in the coming years. As a Brewer fan, that's what I care about.

[clancyphile]

It's hard to say the overall decision making in the Cubs front office was terrible. That said, I think the Cubs made a number of mistakes especially over the last 2 years that put them on a path to a total tear down in a year or two. Imagine if they hadn't traded Chapman and used Torres/Jimenez/Cease to get Sale instead? They probably don't win in 2016, but they might have won it all this year and would be in a much better position to win going forward. Also imagine if they traded Schwarber after the 2016 season as they should have. Schwarber is a DH on a non-DH team. His value was sky-high after that world series, heck they could have probably done the Chapman trade and used Schwarber/Jimenez/Cease to get Sale and Robertson. Sure Schwarber could have done what Khris Davis did when he left and not been bad like he was this year, but trading Schwarber made way too much sense on paper. I think Schwarber bounces back and is fine, but they aren't getting 2016 value for him if they move him now.

 

The cubs were always planning on trading Jimenez/Cease/Torres/etc for pitching and going the "window" route. That's been roughly the plan since probably 2013/2014. I feel like they didn't maximize their window with their prospects, especially given the resources at their disposal. Their options at this point are to splurge like crazy this off season and get at least one of Darvish/Arrieta and probably 2 high end relievers in FA, or to trade some position player talent for pitching while making some FA signings. Either way, their best case scenario is probably to extend their window to 2019 or 2020 at best(when I say extend their window, I don't expect them to be favorites anymore...they simply will have a competitive team with a good not great chance to win the division)...at which point they will probably be awful and in top 5 pick territory again as Rizzo/Bryant leave or get traded. Epstein will also probably leave at this point, just like in Boston.

 

The Cubs made good short-term decisions for three NLCS appearances in three years. But the bill for their depleted farm system is going to come due at some point. Free agency can't fill all 25 roster spots.

 

I think Brewers fans will find that over the next four to five years, Brent Suter and Brandon Woodruff may be the two of the most consequential prospects to have been successfully developed by the farm system, even if neither become #2 starters. Why? Because they are controllable and cheap, and the Brewers don't have to go to free agency and pay $15 million a year for four years of Matt Garza production. The Suppan/Wolf contracts probably were why the Brewers couldn't match offers for Prince Fielder after 2011. Now, if the Crew has bonafide stars... Suter and Woodruff's development allow for them to be extended. Or, their presence means the Brewers are able to bid enough in the posting system for Shohei Otani.

[bill hAll Star]

I'm definitely in agreement that the Cubs have weakened themselves a bit, but I think the rumors of their demise are a bit overblown.

 

They can sign Darvish and/or Harper (next offseason) and also probably keep Davis. I think that's going to be their plan. I think their payroll will allow for that as guys like Zobrist come off in 2 years and Lester/Quintana after that.

 

They'll probably turn into the Detroit Tigers with 6 guys making $20+ million and just pray they can get something from their minors system, but I think going with that plan, it'll at least keep them good enough to win 90-95 games for the next 4-5 years unless their pitching implodes faster than expected.

 

They can also pray to whichever god they have that either Heyward is the Gary Andersen of players and opts out this year because he's not earning it or roids up and opts out next year.

 

I also think however much is possible that they either frontload or backload their pitcher contract this year and/or Harper next year. Backloading probably makes a bit more sense, but they might get creative to keep a little bit more room for 2019-2021 with their next huge contracts.

[KeithStone53151]

I'm definitely in agreement that the Cubs have weakened themselves a bit, but I think the rumors of their demise are a bit overblown.

 

They can sign Darvish and/or Harper (next offseason) and also probably keep Davis. I think that's going to be their plan. I think their payroll will allow for that as guys like Zobrist come off in 2 years and Lester/Quintana after that.

 

They'll probably turn into the Detroit Tigers with 6 guys making $20+ million and just pray they can get something from their minors system, but I think going with that plan, it'll at least keep them good enough to win 90-95 games for the next 4-5 years unless their pitching implodes faster than expected.

 

They can also pray to whichever god they have that either Heyward is the Gary Andersen of players and opts out this year because he's not earning it or roids up and opts out next year.

 

I also think however much is possible that they either frontload or backload their pitcher contract this year and/or Harper next year. Backloading probably makes a bit more sense, but they might get creative to keep a little bit more room for 2019-2021 with their next huge contracts.

 

Come on man, there are 29 other teams out there. They can't just get every player they want. It's not a video game. And they certainly can't hand out the money in the contracts how they choose to big names like Harper and Darvish. If the Cubs try backloading a deal to either guy, they won't sign the player. Both guys, but especially Harper, will want big money up front with opt outs built in.

 

Even if the cubs get one of Darvish/Arrieta, the rest of their rotation really doesn't look good. It looks much better on paper than the reality. Lester is quickly becoming a mid-rotation starter at best. Quintana about the same. Hendricks, this guy cannot keep this up with 86 mph heat...he just won't. And Montgomery could be a mid-rotation guy but is more likely back end. Also worth noting the rotation for the most part is old/aging. Nobody in the rotation has "upside" anymore.

[bill hAll Star]

I'm definitely in agreement that the Cubs have weakened themselves a bit, but I think the rumors of their demise are a bit overblown.

 

They can sign Darvish and/or Harper (next offseason) and also probably keep Davis. I think that's going to be their plan. I think their payroll will allow for that as guys like Zobrist come off in 2 years and Lester/Quintana after that.

 

They'll probably turn into the Detroit Tigers with 6 guys making $20+ million and just pray they can get something from their minors system, but I think going with that plan, it'll at least keep them good enough to win 90-95 games for the next 4-5 years unless their pitching implodes faster than expected.

 

They can also pray to whichever god they have that either Heyward is the Gary Andersen of players and opts out this year because he's not earning it or roids up and opts out next year.

 

I also think however much is possible that they either frontload or backload their pitcher contract this year and/or Harper next year. Backloading probably makes a bit more sense, but they might get creative to keep a little bit more room for 2019-2021 with their next huge contracts.

 

Come on man, there are 29 other teams out there. They can't just get every player they want. It's not a video game. And they certainly can't hand out the money in the contracts how they choose to big names like Harper and Darvish. If the Cubs try backloading a deal to either guy, they won't sign the player. Both guys, but especially Harper, will want big money up front with opt outs built in.

 

Even if the cubs get one of Darvish/Arrieta, the rest of their rotation really doesn't look good. It looks much better on paper than the reality. Lester is quickly becoming a mid-rotation starter at best. Quintana about the same. Hendricks, this guy cannot keep this up with 86 mph heat...he just won't. And Montgomery could be a mid-rotation guy but is more likely back end. Also worth noting the rotation for the most part is old/aging. Nobody in the rotation has "upside" anymore.

 

I know there are 29 other teams out there, but they're going to spend big on one or two more big players and if they fail there, sign a ton of good supporting/role players. The point is that they have the money to keep a 90-95 win team for a few years if they want to.

 

The fact that some of their trades and vets are making the window look a bit shorter may make them break the bank one or two more times. Sorry if it sounded like Bryce Harper was a guaranteed signing, but they probably have $50 million available per year for the next 3-4 years and more after that. If it's not Harper or Darvish, they will get some of the higher-end free agents even if those guys are not "worth it" in the long run.

 

Other teams also have that available, but just due to the landscape of some of the bigger markets right now, the Cubs won't be competing against that many teams. The Phillies may be a huge player in all of this and the Yankees will be there, of course.

[monty57]

I know there are 29 other teams out there, but they're going to spend big on one or two more big players and if they fail there, sign a ton of good supporting/role players. The point is that they have the money to keep a 90-95 win team for a few years if they want to.

 

The fact that some of their trades and vets are making the window look a bit shorter may make them break the bank one or two more times. Sorry if it sounded like Bryce Harper was a guaranteed signing, but they probably have $50 million available per year for the next 3-4 years and more after that. If it's not Harper or Darvish, they will get some of the higher-end free agents even if those guys are not "worth it" in the long run.

 

Other teams also have that available, but just due to the landscape of some of the bigger markets right now, the Cubs won't be competing against that many teams. The Phillies may be a huge player in all of this and the Yankees will be there, of course.

 

I agree that they will spend to remain competitive for the next few years while they have guys like Rizzo and Bryant, but I don't think they'll have $50M available per year. I think they'll add substantially this offseason, getting them to the $170-180M area they've been in for the past couple of seasons. That will give them some room under the luxury tax for pay increases for a few seasons, but not much else unless they can somehow get themselves out from under a big contract.

 

If they spend big this offseason, and if they don't want to go over the luxury tax threshold, they probably won't have too much to spend next offseason. The only contracts falling off the books after next season will be Rondon and Wilson (estimated around $10.5M combined), and Heyward will make $8M less ($28M in 2018, $20M in 2019). Arby increases should eat that up. They could opt out on Quintana, but that wouldn't make sense.The guys they're talking about trading (Schwarber, Baez, Almora, Happ) are their cheap guys so that will just make the team more expensive.

 

Of course, they could decide to go over the luxury tax threshold, but the penalties for that got a lot bigger recently, which is why teams are trying so hard to get under the cap. Their biggest decision will be how they are going to approach all the free agents they'll lose after 2021, which will be Bryant, Lester, Rizzo and Russell's last year of control (and on a lesser scale, Baez, Montgomery and Schwarber). I think they'll have to keep that in mind when signing people over the next few seasons, as they are not going to want to let someone else outbid them for Bryant, but they can't just give him a monster deal and not have anyone around him.

 

That really looks like the problem year for the Cubs, but that's still three seasons away. Will they load up well over the luxury tax in the next couple of years knowing they will fall below the cap in 2022, or will they try to save enough room to sign both Bryant and Rizzo, knowing they'll lose a lot of the talent around them at that time. It does make me glad that they traded away all the prospects who could be in their pre-arby years at that time.

 

Either way, it's hard to predict that far into the future as a lot could happen. It will be interesting to see how both the Brewers and the Cubs attack this offseason.

[bill hAll Star]

If they spend big this offseason, and if they don't want to go over the luxury tax threshold, they probably won't have too much to spend next offseason. The only contracts falling off the books after next season will be Rondon and Wilson (estimated around $10.5M combined), and Heyward will make $8M less ($28M in 2018, $20M in 2019). Arby increases should eat that up. They could opt out on Quintana, but that wouldn't make sense.The guys they're talking about trading (Schwarber, Baez, Almora, Happ) are their cheap guys so that will just make the team more expensive.

 

They can also non-tender Leonys Martin and Justin Grimm. Zobrist's deal goes down $4 million. Strop has an option that they can decline if they want to. Obviously they wouldn't opt out on Quintana.

 

I think they could shuffle things and make it work. And like you said, maybe go over the luxury tax for one season.

[reillymcshane]

One thing regarding the luxury tax -- teams want to get under it for 2018 so that they can go bonkers after next season when Harper, Machado, Donaldson, Dozier, Daniel Murphy, Elvis Andrus, Blackmon, Kershaw, Britton, David Price (can opt out) and others are free agents.

 

The luxury tax increases every year in a row that you are over the line - 20% the first year, then 30% and then 50%. So a team over the tax line for three years running pays a 50% tax on their overage amount. However, once a team gets under the luxury tax, it basically resets. So teams interested in the big FA market next off season are looking to get under this year - so they have the flexibility to spend big next off season.

 

So you might see some teams really fighting to stay under the tax line this year - especially because the players available - such as Darvish - are good, but not great.

 

Just speculation - but maybe some of the big spenders might be a little gun shy this off season.

[bill hAll Star]

One thing regarding the luxury tax -- teams want to get under it for 2018 so that they can go bonkers after next season when Harper, Machado, Donaldson, Dozier, Daniel Murphy, Elvis Andrus, Blackmon, Kershaw, Britton, David Price (can opt out) and others are free agents.

 

The luxury tax increases every year in a row that you are over the line - 20% the first year, then 30% and then 50%. So a team over the tax line for three years running pays a 50% tax on their overage amount. However, once a team gets under the luxury tax, it basically resets. So teams interested in the big FA market next off season are looking to get under this year - so they have the flexibility to spend big next off season.

 

So you might see some teams really fighting to stay under the tax line this year - especially because the players available - such as Darvish - are good, but not great.

 

Just speculation - but maybe some of the big spenders might be a little gun shy this off season.

 

And the Cubs could sign Darvish, Ohtani, or Arrieta and stay under the threshold.

 

I also feel sorry for the fans of the team that signs Charlie Blackmon to a mega-contract (I realize you just put him in the list as a good player that is a free agent coming up in that offseason).

[KeithStone53151]

One thing regarding the luxury tax -- teams want to get under it for 2018 so that they can go bonkers after next season when Harper, Machado, Donaldson, Dozier, Daniel Murphy, Elvis Andrus, Blackmon, Kershaw, Britton, David Price (can opt out) and others are free agents.

 

The luxury tax increases every year in a row that you are over the line - 20% the first year, then 30% and then 50%. So a team over the tax line for three years running pays a 50% tax on their overage amount. However, once a team gets under the luxury tax, it basically resets. So teams interested in the big FA market next off season are looking to get under this year - so they have the flexibility to spend big next off season.

 

So you might see some teams really fighting to stay under the tax line this year - especially because the players available - such as Darvish - are good, but not great.

 

Just speculation - but maybe some of the big spenders might be a little gun shy this off season.

 

And the Cubs could sign Darvish, Ohtani, or Arrieta and stay under the threshold.

 

I also feel sorry for the fans of the team that signs Charlie Blackmon to a mega-contract (I realize you just put him in the list as a good player that is a free agent coming up in that offseason).

 

Otani is going to be stuck signing a very low dollars deal when he comes over due to mlb rules. Pretty much every team has a shot at him(assuming there isn't some under the table nonsense happening...which is highly likely). I couldn't agree more on blackmon. That dude is going to get $100 million and the contract will be terrible before the ink dries.

[monty57]

One thing regarding the luxury tax -- teams want to get under it for 2018 so that they can go bonkers after next season when Harper, Machado, Donaldson, Dozier, Daniel Murphy, Elvis Andrus, Blackmon, Kershaw, Britton, David Price (can opt out) and others are free agents.

 

The luxury tax increases every year in a row that you are over the line - 20% the first year, then 30% and then 50%. So a team over the tax line for three years running pays a 50% tax on their overage amount. However, once a team gets under the luxury tax, it basically resets. So teams interested in the big FA market next off season are looking to get under this year - so they have the flexibility to spend big next off season.

 

So you might see some teams really fighting to stay under the tax line this year - especially because the players available - such as Darvish - are good, but not great.

 

Just speculation - but maybe some of the big spenders might be a little gun shy this off season.

 

They also recently added surcharges of an additional 12% for teams that spend $20-40M over the base level, and 42.5%-45% for teams who spend $40M over the base level. Additionally, beginning in 2018, teams who spend $40M over the base level will have their Rule 4 (first year player) draft spot dropped ten places, with the exception of the top six selections, who would have their 2nd pick dropped ten spots.

 

Therefore, a team who spends over $237M next year will pay 65% - 95% "tax" and have their 1st round draft pick dropped ten spots.

 

This should effectively make a salary cap for baseball, as no team is going to repeatedly have their first rounder dropped ten spots.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2016/11/30/breaking-down-mlbs-new-2017-21-collective-bargaining-agreement/#65c626ef11b9

[bill hAll Star]

Ah, yeah. I was under the impression that the new rules only restricted the negotiating fee. The fact that it also impedes the contract dollars is very interesting.

 

The Cubs might be one of the top destinations for Ohtani. Obviously the west coast teams and New York teams also will be in play.

[danzig6767]

Bullpen rules all again:

 

"Dodgers bullpen in NLCS vs Cubs- 58 batters faced, 4 H, 1 BB, 22 K's, 0.00 ERA, 0.294 WHIP"

 

 

Those numbers are insane.

And the Cubs pen got lit up.

 

Bullpens have long mattered in the playoffs, but for about a decade now and increasing each year, a really good pen is as important as the starters.

[Austin Tatious]

I like a lot of the young Brewers arms as future relievers. We could have a strong bullpen in future years.

 

Some of the following project as relievers. For others, there are only so many spots in the rotation such that some of the projected starters could be nice Brewer relievers.

 

Taylor Williams - I think he’s a solid reliever

Kodi Medeiros - if he focuses on relief work, I think he can advance. At a minimum he should be a loogy.

Cody Ponce

Phil Bickford

Freddy Peralta

 

To go with Knebel, who is still young, and maybe even Hader, the Brewers could have a very strong pen in a couple of years.

[brewcrewdue80]

I like a lot of the young Brewers arms as future relievers. We could have a strong bullpen in future years.

 

Some of the following project as relievers. For others, there are only so many spots in the rotation such that some of the projected starters could be nice Brewer relievers.

 

Taylor Williams - I think he’s a solid reliever

Kodi Medeiros - if he focuses on relief work, I think he can advance. At a minimum he should be a loogy.

Cody Ponce

Phil Bickford

Freddy Peralta

 

To go with Knebel, who is still young, and maybe even Hader, the Brewers could have a very strong pen in a couple of years.

 

Fully agree with the Brewers farm producing quite a few really good Bullpen arms. Something that the Cubs had to trade high end prospects to establish. We've now got Kneble for at least 3 more seasons. 3 of those 5 named above ought to fill up the bullpen soon hoping 1 if not 2(Peralta/Ponce) become quality SPs. I'd guess Bickford is behind the 8ball as a SP and his stuff will be too good to wait for the Starter in him to arrive. With the depth of minors, you can still acquire a bullpen arm if it comes to that. You don't need a closer, just an arm to add depth at the ML level. And certainly, we could reach out and spend for one of the elites with the payroll allotment.

Just really excited how well the Brewers are set up and that's with the 1st round pick blunders being Floor and no ceiling results.

[Invader3K]

Two World Series appearances, one championship...I wish the Brewers were so "flawed."

 

I sometimes seriously wonder if I'll ever live to see the Brewers win a World Series. I'm in my late 30's.

 

 

I'm assuming you meant two "recent" playoff (not WS) appearances. Unless you were talking in their entire history, but even then, they have been in a lot more than than 2 WS.

 

Yes, you're right. I meant "two NLCS appearances".

[OnaBadger58]

I like a lot of the young Brewers arms as future relievers. We could have a strong bullpen in future years.

 

Some of the following project as relievers. For others, there are only so many spots in the rotation such that some of the projected starters could be nice Brewer relievers.

 

Taylor Williams - I think he’s a solid reliever

Kodi Medeiros - if he focuses on relief work, I think he can advance. At a minimum he should be a loogy.

Cody Ponce

Phil Bickford

Freddy Peralta

 

To go with Knebel, who is still young, and maybe even Hader, the Brewers could have a very strong pen in a couple of years.

I think Peralta will be a rotational piece, with a floor of being a reliever. He should be given every opportunity to be a SP at this point. Other reliever options would be Houser, Diplan, Pennington, Supak. I think our bullpen will be a huge strength in a couple years.

[Madhawk23]

I think the Cubs proved this summer with their trades around the deadline that they are certainly all-in on trying to win another WS during this window that they have right now. So, I'd be shocked if they aren't a player these next two winters on the F/A market.

 

The good news for us and other NL Central teams is that they do have two contracts which are albatrosses in Lester and Heyward that aren't going away anytime soon. And as others have pointed out, they have some other key guys on their roster that will start to get more expensive in the next few years.

 

With that said - they should still have plenty of money to throw around with free agents these next two years to improve their team, and I'd be surprised if they don't do that. Especially with their farm system being pretty bare at the moment, which means that they'd have to use MLB depth to trade instead of prospects if they want to improve their team via trades.

 

If they go out and try to re-sign an Arrieta or sign a Darvish, that's another 25+ mil a year that they'll have allocated to one guy, so we're talking about 75+ million eaten up by three players on their roster. Lester isn't getting any younger, Heyward might be the worst contract in baseball, and Arrieta/Darvish probably aren't going to be worth near as much as some team is going to pay them.