How Do We Feel About Trent Grisham (formerly Clark) At This Point?

[sheetskout]

In the same style as my Corey Ray thread, how do we feel about Trent Clark at this point?

 

Also, can anyone tell me if they got him out of the "golf grip" or not?

[KeithStone53151]

I thought I saw he got rid of the golf grip a while back. I think many people are far more positive on him than i am. He hits the ball hard on occasion and sports a very high obp with low avg. We've seen that once before, his name was Michael Reed and he didn't make it. I think Clark has a better chance to improve at the plate than Reed. Clark is also going to struggle in CF and RF with a well below average throwing arm. I like Ray as a prospect much more than Clark at this point, despite Clark being much younger.

[zagski6]

I think he has a ceiling of a 4th outfielder. I hope I'm wrong.

[adambr2]

I like him a lot if he can stick in CF. His plate discipline is as good as you'll find. I think he has leadoff hitter potential, with 12-15 HR and 40+ steals.

 

I think people are writing him off too quickly. He's 20 years old, young for High A, and still carried a .360 OBP. If the power can develop into an 'average' tool, and he can stick in CF -- both big ifs, true enough -- he'll be a heck of a player.

[KeithStone53151]

I like him a lot if he can stick in CF. His plate discipline is as good as you'll find. I think he has leadoff hitter potential, with 12-15 HR and 40+ steals.

 

I think people are writing him off too quickly. He's 20 years old, young for High A, and still carried a .360 OBP. If the power can develop into an 'average' tool, and he can stick in CF -- both big ifs, true enough -- he'll be a heck of a player.

 

You need to be able to hit the ball for power to play, if he finds it. It's nice that he shows a good eye at the plate, but that OBP won't translate up to higher levels with better pitch command if he can't hit and isn't a power threat. He hasn't hit in the last 2 years, I won't be optimistic on Clark until he starts hitting as I think he's LF only and that bat is going to have to go from non-existent to plus for him to make it.

[OnaBadger58]

I like him a lot if he can stick in CF. His plate discipline is as good as you'll find. I think he has leadoff hitter potential, with 12-15 HR and 40+ steals.

 

I think people are writing him off too quickly. He's 20 years old, young for High A, and still carried a .360 OBP. If the power can develop into an 'average' tool, and he can stick in CF -- both big ifs, true enough -- he'll be a heck of a player.

Agreed. He will be 21 for all of next baseball season. He obviously has the plate discipline (maybe to a fault). He had 37SB/5CS last year. Those are pretty good attributes to start out with for a top of the order hitter. I believe he'll make a Monte Harrison-type jump in the next two years. The average and slugging will come with time/maturation.

 

Along with what the organization did with Harrison, I think Clark should start next year in A+. With the logjam in the OF, there is no need to advance him to AA right now. Let him figure things out, and if he does, promote him to AA post all-star break.

[LouisEly]

I like him a lot if he can stick in CF. His plate discipline is as good as you'll find. I think he has leadoff hitter potential, with 12-15 HR and 40+ steals.

 

I think people are writing him off too quickly. He's 20 years old, young for High A, and still carried a .360 OBP. If the power can develop into an 'average' tool, and he can stick in CF -- both big ifs, true enough -- he'll be a heck of a player.

Agreed. He will be 21 for all of next baseball season. He obviously has the plate discipline (maybe to a fault). He had 37SB/5CS last year. Those are pretty good attributes to start out with for a top of the order hitter. I believe he'll make a Monte Harrison-type jump in the next two years. The average and slugging will come with time/maturation.

 

Along with what the organization did with Harrison, I think Clark should start next year in A+. With the logjam in the OF, there is no need to advance him to AA right now. Let him figure things out, and if he does, promote him to AA post all-star break.

Pretty much agree with this. I've been critical, but I have more hope for him than Ray because he's been very young for his league. (For me, "young" for a league means >2 years less than league average; one year does not constitute "young" for me.)

 

Strongly agree with the discipline to a fault - the high strikeouts along with high walks tells the story. Needs to get more aggressive. Even if he's an average CF defensively, he should hit well enough to make it. If he has to move to corner... he has a ways to go to get to average.

[reillymcshane]

I was excited to see Clark get a full season this past year. I was disappointed in several ways - particularly the batting average. The strike outs, obviously, are concerning, but what really worries me was his performance against lefties. Clark hit only .180 against them last year. He hit them just fine in 2016, so I'm hoping it was just a aberration - but those are the kinds of things that come out as a player moves up the minor league ladder.

 

On the flip side, I'm encouraged by the high walk rate. He's got some speed - which is always nice. He seems like he would be a very good left fielder. As others have noted, it seems like he's patient to a fault at the plate. He's got quick hands and you'd like to see him using them to make things happen.

 

We'll see how he does going forward. 2017 kind of put Clark in neutral on the prospect scale - no great momentum, but I'm not writing him off yet.

[Lathund]

Having such good plate discipline so early is quite encouraging to me. Having an ability to get on base and then advance once there helps create a relatively high floor to build from, and makes him a useful player even when working to develop the hit tool. As earlier posters alluded to I think a lot of his future relies on position and defense. I think he'll develop his offense to be more than good enough for CF, but having some doubts about how it might play in the corners. He's in A+ in his age-20 season (2.6 years below the league avg), and holding his own there offensively (107 wRC+), so there's plenty of time to work on any flaws in his game.

 

I'd say I'm fairly neutral on him as well. He has an intriguing skillset, it's just a matter of how much his hit and power tools develop, and he's young enough for there to be a very wide range of possibilities whether on one, both or neither develops. Definitely someone we should be patient with IMO.

[brewcrewdue80]

Wasn't a fan when I did my predraft. Just seemed awkward and lacking power in his swing. He's young and a HS pick that was a top 10 projection, I think losing my two favorite in the draft in selections before, may have rattled the draft day, just like I wonder on Ray's selection with Pint a pick before and Delvin Perez PEDs.

 

I'll label him a 4th OF future at this time and a prime trade player vs. future Brewer, because his production is lagging behind others who lead a crowded OF depth. I am surprised on the SB output something I didn't read in to him being so high. Hope he improves just a little each year and finds his way near the top 100 when he is traded.

[clancyphile]

Having such good plate discipline so early is quite encouraging to me. Having an ability to get on base and then advance once there helps create a relatively high floor to build from, and makes him a useful player even when working to develop the hit tool. As earlier posters alluded to I think a lot of his future relies on position and defense. I think he'll develop his offense to be more than good enough for CF, but having some doubts about how it might play in the corners. He's in A+ in his age-20 season (2.6 years below the league avg), and holding his own there offensively (107 wRC+), so there's plenty of time to work on any flaws in his game.

 

I'd say I'm fairly neutral on him as well. He has an intriguing skillset, it's just a matter of how much his hit and power tools develop, and he's young enough for there to be a very wide range of possibilities whether on one, both or neither develops. Definitely someone we should be patient with IMO.

 

I'm thinking that he could be much like another Clark... Brady Clark, only faster. He'll get a .350-.360 OBP, play all three OF positions decently, hit 30-35 doubles, 10-15 homers, and add 30 steals. You can do far worse for a 4th/5th OF.

 

The OBP skills and the increasing power are good signs. Can he learn to hit and get he average to .260-.270? That will determine if he exceeds a 5th OF status.

[Jenkins5]

Trent Clark? Don’t know him but I’m still very high on Trent Grisham! Think when he is out of Carolina he will excel. He has all the numbers outside of average. Hopefully Ks drop back down. He added power & started to pull ball more & add power so that is a factor

[DHonks]

I thought I saw he got rid of the golf grip a while back.

 

I still don’t know why this is a big deal to some people. Despite the media never reporting it, JJ Hardy has had a very nice career with a golf-like grip (thumbs straight down the bat). As a scratch golfer, it’s something I’ve always noticed.

[JCREW]

Anybody have thoughts on the Trent Grisham write-up in the FanGraphs All-KATOH Team?

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-2018-all-katoh-team/

 

I'm not sure what to make of the extreme outlier data. It makes me kind of excited that he might be something special.

 

 

 

(Also, mods, how about a name change on the thread title)

[stalton]

Strictly looking at the data, he hits it to center (seemingly more than anybody) but gets out more frequently than the trend. So that would mean alot of flyouts to CF and grounders up the middle? For those that have seen Grisham play, do opposing teams shade up the middle in the infield?

[WV Brew]

I saw him play quite a bit last year. IMO he is not a centerfielder. Ray and Harrision were both way beyond what Trent could do in CF. That said, I don't remember anybody in the Brewers organization who has his plate discipline. This is within the strike zone as well as balls and strikes. He rarely swings at a ball he can't handle, at least until strike two. I think he should work on his strike two hitting in order to cut down a bit on his K rate. If he can up his batting average 20 or 30 points he will be a good player I think.

 

Despite getting many stolen bases I wouldn't call him fast. He just has a baseball IQ on that and hitting. Some scouts have dinged him for his arm but I think it's around average. He did lead the Carolina League in OF assists for much of last year.

[KeithStone53151]

I saw him play quite a bit last year. IMO he is not a centerfielder. Ray and Harrision were both way beyond what Trent could do in CF. That said, I don't remember anybody in the Brewers organization who has his plate discipline. This is within the strike zone as well as balls and strikes. He rarely swings at a ball he can't handle, at least until strike two. I think he should work on his strike two hitting in order to cut down a bit on his K rate. If he can up his batting average 20 or 30 points he will be a good player I think.

 

Despite getting many stolen bases I wouldn't call him fast. He just has a baseball IQ on that and hitting. Some scouts have dinged him for his arm but I think it's around average. He did lead the Carolina League in OF assists for much of last year.

 

Would you say he strikes out looking more than he should? Or is he moreso expanding the zone and swinging at bad pitches from what you've seen? It is altogether possible he's making too much bad contact, I can't imagine it's a ton of line drives going right to the CF. This definitely gives me some reason to hope though.

[jerichoholicninja]

Anybody have thoughts on the Trent Grisham write-up in the FanGraphs All-KATOH Team?

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-2018-all-katoh-team/

 

I'm not sure what to make of the extreme outlier data. It makes me kind of excited that he might be something special.

 

 

 

(Also, mods, how about a name change on the thread title)

 

I read the article and I still don't understand how him being an outlier when looking at two random stats shows anything.

[StearnsFTW]

Anybody have thoughts on the Trent Grisham write-up in the FanGraphs All-KATOH Team?

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-2018-all-katoh-team/

 

I'm not sure what to make of the extreme outlier data. It makes me kind of excited that he might be something special.

 

 

 

(Also, mods, how about a name change on the thread title)

 

I read the article and I still don't understand how him being an outlier when looking at two random stats shows anything.

 

I think there's is correlation between hitting the ball to center field and high BABIP. But not in this case which is weird.

 

As for Clark, I love him as a prospect. Can't teach those OBP skills at that age. Obvious swing-and-miss problems, but I'm optimistic he'll turn the corner there.

[jerichoholicninja]

Anybody have thoughts on the Trent Grisham write-up in the FanGraphs All-KATOH Team?

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-2018-all-katoh-team/

 

I'm not sure what to make of the extreme outlier data. It makes me kind of excited that he might be something special.

 

 

 

(Also, mods, how about a name change on the thread title)

 

I read the article and I still don't understand how him being an outlier when looking at two random stats shows anything.

 

I think there's is correlation between hitting the ball to center field and high BABIP. But not in this case which is weird.

 

As for Clark, I love him as a prospect. Can't teach those OBP skills at that age. Obvious swing-and-miss problems, but I'm optimistic he'll turn the corner there.

 

I get that but is the writer pointing out that Cody Bellinger was an outlier too and therefore Trent might be good like him?

[JCREW]

 

I read the article and I still don't understand how him being an outlier when looking at two random stats shows anything.

 

I think there's is correlation between hitting the ball to center field and high BABIP. But not in this case which is weird.

 

As for Clark, I love him as a prospect. Can't teach those OBP skills at that age. Obvious swing-and-miss problems, but I'm optimistic he'll turn the corner there.

 

I get that but is the writer pointing out that Cody Bellinger was an outlier too and therefore Trent might be good like him?

 

The outlier exists in one variable only, hits to center. That’s awesome if its hard contact, but terrible if, like someone else said, he’s hitting weak grounders to second. That’s where the eye test comes into play. I’d also like to know who some of the other players are who have such high center field percentages.

[wallus]

Just a reminder he was only 20 last season. To me he is Michael Brantley 2.0

[jerichoholicninja]

The outlier exists in one variable only, hits to center. That’s awesome if its hard contact, but terrible if, like someone else said, he’s hitting weak grounders to second. That’s where the eye test comes into play. I’d also like to know who some of the other players are who have such high center field percentages.

 

Exactly why I wish it was explained more. Who are all the other outliers on that graph and what is the theory that the information means anything?

[TJseven7]

While the batting numbers don't pop, the fact that he's in carolina which seems to be depressing all batter numbers gives me a lot more faith in him. I worry about his fit on an mlb roster though. I think the bat will prove it can play as will the obp... but if he's not a great defender in CF and his arm isnt good enough for RF, so that leaves LF and I just dont see his offense being as good as you'd want there.

[Lathund]

The outlier exists in one variable only, hits to center. That’s awesome if its hard contact, but terrible if, like someone else said, he’s hitting weak grounders to second. That’s where the eye test comes into play. I’d also like to know who some of the other players are who have such high center field percentages.

 

Exactly why I wish it was explained more. Who are all the other outliers on that graph and what is the theory that the information means anything?

 

It's not really the outliers that are interesting, it's the fact that there's a pretty strong correlation between hitting a lot of balls to CF and a high BABIP. A career low BABIP for Clark in 2017 despite hitting more balls to CF than anyone would suggest that even if he changes nothing, and maintains the same batted-ball profile, his offensive stats should improve. Obviously it's not the only factor; other things changed as well, such as an increased fly ball rate which tends to lower BABIP too. In this specific context it's also perhaps illustrating part of why KATOH likes Clark, despite the less than (at a first glance) impressive stat line.