BF.net Fan Community Top 25 Prospects Poll - 2017 Post-Season Edition - Voting is closed

[BlazingGunz]

1. Lewis Brinson

2. Keston Hiura

3. Corbin Burnes

4. Luis Ortiz

5. Brandon Woodruff

6. Brett Phillips

7. Monte Harrison

8. Lucas Erceg

9. Isan Diaz

10. Freddy Peralta

11. Trent Clark

12. Corey Ray

13. Troy Stokes

14. Tristen Lutz

15. Mauricio Dubon

16. Mario Feliciano

17. Trey Supak

18. Marcos Diplan

19. Jacob Nottingham

20. Jake Gatewood

21. Cody Ponce

22. Josh Pennington

23. Kodi Medeiros

24. Phil Bickford

25. Jordan Yamamoto

26. Zack Brown

27. Demi Orimoloye

28. Taylor Williams

29. KJ Harrison

30. Bubba Derby

[adambr2]

1. Corbin Burnes - After successfully making the jump to AA and continuing his dominance for Biloxi, I'm sold.

 

2. Lewis Brinson - The tools are there. Health concerns are starting to become somewhat of an issue and kept him out of my top spot.

 

3. Brett Phillips - This is higher than he'll go in most lists, but well-deserved. If September is a sign of what's to come for Brett, there's no reason to think he hasn't staked a legitimate claim himself as CF of the future here.

 

4. Freddy Peralta - Still IMO gets a bit overlooked and I'm not really sure why. The K numbers are elite, regardless of whether he ends up starting or relieving. He's a year and a half younger than Corbin Burnes and had an equally dominant 2017.

 

5. Keston Hiura - Might be the best pure bat in the system. Finally starting to play 2nd a bit.

 

6. Brandon Woodruff - His rough end to 2017 shouldn't change his outlook much after a dominant 2016 and good first few MLB starts.

 

7. Luis Ortiz - Not a particularly great season, but not a disappointing one either. Still middle of the rotation or better upside.

 

8. Isan Diaz - I was disappointed by his 2017 like many bats in Carolina, but he still offers some exciting upside as a big bat in the middle of the infield.

 

9. Trent Clark - I like him more than most. Still very young for his level, and the on base skills are as good as it gets.

 

10. Lucas Erceg - Little bit of a letdown season, but still carries a big potential bat at 3rd and I expect him to rebound in 2018.

 

11. Tristen Lutz - Another big bat, Lutz could be a fast riser in the system despite arriving straight out of high school.

 

12. Taylor Williams - Arms who seemingly profile as relievers tend to get overlooked on the lists, but Williams should be an exception. There's a reason he was added to the 40 coming off of injury.

 

13. Corey Ray - I really wanted to find a reason not to penalize Ray as much on this as I knew he would be. I thought maybe a hot start in the AFL might give me that reason. Then he went and did the opposite. The tools are there, but that's about the only thing keeping him this high at the moment.

 

14. Cody Ponce - Ponce is another arm to keep an eye on in 2018. Made the late season jump to Biloxi with success after a decent, but not great season in Carolina.

 

15. Monte Harrison - His fantastic athleticism tempts me to put him higher, but he still has a long ways to go at 23 and not much time to do it before the Brewers are forced to decide on his future. Still, a healthy 2017 was a step in the right direction and he's a candidate for a full breakout in 2018.

 

16. Mauricio Dubon - Dubon is a great story and I would have liked to rank him higher. I just don't see a tool that is going to make him a successful MLB starter. I think he has an MLB future, just as a 24th/25th man utility IF type.

 

17. Kodi Medeiros - Without a doubt, Kodi is one of the most frustrating prospects in the system, showing flashes of dominance combined with wild outings with command struggles. A full-time move to the bullpen may be in order to see if Medeiros can emerge one day as a 2017 Josh Hader.

 

18. Jake Gatewood - Another prospect from the 2014 class. Gatewood appeared on the verge of an offensive breakout in 2017 and somewhat faded in the second half. If he can build on it next year, he could be a fast riser in the rankings.

 

19. Trey Supak - His dominance in Appleton didn't quite carry over to Carolina, but there was a still a lot to like and still is regarding his arm and profitability.

 

20. Marcos Diplan - Diplan tumbles in most rankings after a tough 2017 season in Carolina. Like other arms such as Medeiros, Diplan might benefit from a full move to the pen.

 

21. Jacob Nottinghamm - By all accounts, Nottinghamm made strides in his defense in 2017. Unfortunately, his bat was rather mediocre and will make it hard to play at the MLB level if he can't stick behind the plate. The Brewers may look to move him in the off-season rather than dedicate potentially a 5th spot on the 40 to another backstop.

 

22. Phil Bickford - A PED suspension is probably an unfair reason alone that this former top 100 prospect has tumbled down so many lists, but the reported decline in velocity and command don't help his cause.

 

23. KJ Harrison - His bat didn't disappoint in his rookie season in Helena. Like many offensive catching prospects, his value will depend greatly on his ability to stick behind the plate.

 

24. Josh Pennington - This is much lower than I would have liked to put the potential high leverage reliever from the Thornburg trade. Finally healthy, he flashed some of the power arm we hoped to see.

 

25. Bubba Derby - He gets the 25th spot just for being heroic. It does not hurt his cause that he had a very successful transition to starter which included success in Colorado Springs.

 

26. Mario Feliciano - He looked like a potential minor leaguer of the year early on before the bat tapered off late. Still very young, he gives the Brewers another exciting bat behind the plate in the farm system.

 

27. Aaron Wilkerson - Even being a soft tossed, there's no reason why Wilkerson should be ranked this low with his track record as he'll compete for a rotation spot in 2018. It speaks to the depth of our farm system.

 

28. Jordan Yamomoto - He spun a 9-4 record with a 2.51 ERA and 1.09 WHIP in 111 innings for the Mudcats this year, and struck out over a batter an inning. Frankly, I don't understand how this guy doesn't get more love than he does.

 

29. Larry Ernesto - Years away at his young age, the Brewers will hope Ernesto, who they liked enough for a big international investment, will develop into what they had hoped for from Corey Ray.

 

30. Carlos Herrera - The last piece in the Adam Lind deal rounds out the list, putting all 3 from the deal in my top 30. Still only 19, he posted very good BAA numbers and his remaining projectability could make him a fast riser in the future.

[LouisEly]

30. Carlos Herrera - The last piece in the Adam Lind deal rounds out the list, putting all 3 from the deal in my top 30. Still only 19, he posted very good BAA numbers and his remaining projectability could make him a fast riser in the future.

I don't know who you think the 3rd piece of the Lind deal is, but it was Daniel Missaki and he isn't on your list.

 

On a side note, I can't believe how many lists don't have Adrian Houser on it. He was in the majors at the age of 22 before getting hurt. Like Taylor Williams, there's a reason the Brewers protected him from the Rule 5 draft despite being unable to pitch.

[pacopete4]

These lists are always tough but they seem to be getting even tougher. That's a great problem to have. I also love that we do this because it forces me to look up guys I forget about during the season. Fun stuff!

 

1. Corbin Burnes

2. Freddy Peralta

3. Lewis Brinson

4. Brandon Woodruff

5. Brett Phillips

6. Keston Huira

7. Luis Ortiz

8. Lucas Erceg

9. Tristen Lutz

10. Monte Harrison

11. Taylor Williams

12. Isan Diaz

13. Trent Clark

14. Jake Gatewood

15. Corey Ray

16. Troy Stokes Jr.

17. Mauricio Dubon

18. Bubba Derby

19. Kodi Medeiros

20. Trey Supak

21. Josh Pennington

22. Jacob Nottingham

23. Mario Feliciano

24. KJ Harrison

25. Larry Ernesto

 

Missing Notables:

Marcos Diplan, Cody Ponce, Adrian Houser, Phil Bickford, Jordan Yamamoto, Jorge Lopez

[clancyphile]

^^^ Comically bad. It's ridiculous that it will weigh down the final numbers. Might be time to throw out the highest and lowest rankings on each player.

 

Give me a timeout, I'll accept it. That has to be trolling, a cry for attention, or both

 

First, I'll say that I have my issues with the lists that clancy submits and, frankly, I agree with what you are saying but at the end of the day he is entitled to his list. I guess you could argue that if he is entitled to his list then folks are entitled to criticize his list. I guess I just don't see the point and would rather folks just let him be like the crazy uncle at thanksgiving who spouts off about conspiracy theories. We all know the uncle is nuts, just carry on like nothing happened.

 

I don't get to see the prospects, so I just look at numbers. Sometimes, it doesn't go well, but then again... look at Brent Suter, who was a solid part of the rotation for the Crew this year - and I seemed to be the lone voice saying he'd be good. Yeah, Ronnie Gideon fell off from 2016.

 

I have Stokes higher than most on my list. But I'll lay it out: This guy broke out as a power hitter while he still maintained his OBP skills and speed. He did so while a year and a half younger than the average Carolina League player, and THREE YEARS YOUNGER than the average Southern League player.

 

I think he's for real.

 

Dallas Carroll's higher, too, but I see a "Jeff Cirillo" profile that looks to fill a need.

 

Gabriel Garcia's higher than most ballots, too. But he's posted good numbers two years in a row, and I like the versatility. A valuable bench asset.

 

Yeah, I've got some odd names there, some of whom on the offensive side have drawn walks at an insane rate. Or pitchers who did very well in some places, like Bubba Derby at Colorado Springs. I have Woodruff high, and honestly, he'll be a success, even if he's a #5 starter, because the Crew won't be signing a Jeff Suppan or Matt Garza at $15 million per year to do that.

 

So, I'll just crunch numbers and make my best guess with what they tell me.

[82brewcrew82]

Clancy, you don't have to justify a single thing to me (or anyone else). It's your list and you have every right to put it out there. You were consistent and steadfast in your support for Brent Suter so kudos for that.

 

However, you have also had Michael Ratterree, Jorge Ortega, Jon Perrin, Ronnie Gideion, Dallas Carroll and Nate Greip ranked in your top ten. Not to mention prominent spots for guys like Greg McCall, Joan De La Cruz, Mark Williams, Matt Long, George Iskendarian, Colin Walsh, Garin Cecchini, Mitch Ghelfi and Cooper Hummel (among others) often ahead of players who have, or will have, gone on to have great success. You don't get to own one and not the others.

 

I do agree that extreme outliers affect the results and wouldn't mind at least considering measures to mitigate those outliers like throwing out the high and low. Barring that, I just hope as many people as possible vote as that is the second best way to mitigate outliers.

[clancyphile]

I'd say that the jury is still out on Ortega (arm injury), Perrin (who still is performing well), Gideon (still had monster 2016 season), Carroll (Who looked good so far), Griep (same as Carroll), Hummell, and Ghelfi. So, let's set those aside. My ballots outlined why I liked some of those prospects, and for the most part, those comment stand.

 

For some of the others:

Ratterree, who was at #8 in my pre-season 2015 ballot, had stats that showed power and very good OBP skills in 2013-2014. Didn't work out, but hey, how many folks have had Gilbert Lara in their top tens around that time? I'd say at least I could point to numbers for Ratterree then.

 

McCall had an OPS of .840 in 2014, and I rated him as a solid catching prospect.

 

De La Cruz had taken a step forward from the previous two years and racked up 10.4 K/9. He got derailed by an arm injury. Technically, the jury is out, but that injury had him off my list. I've had the same policy for other injured players, including Nathan Kirby and Jorge Ortega.

 

For Mark Williams, it was a 1.86 ERA in 2014, dramatic improvement over the previous three seasons. Kind of the same reason I've had Suter and Burnes as my top prospects.

 

Matt Long and Colin Walsh both fell in the same category of having versatilty and OBP skills.

 

George Iskenderian had versatility and he'd posted a .300 average in 2015. He was #15 on my 2015 post-season ballot.

 

Cecchini's stats looked promising prior to the 2015 slump. I thought he would rebound, but that didn't happen.

[CheeseheadInQC]

I do agree that extreme outliers affect the results and wouldn't mind at least considering measures to mitigate those outliers like throwing out the high and low. Barring that, I just hope as many people as possible vote as that is the second best way to mitigate outliers.

 

I think some of the outliers make things interesting. Let people stake out their positions on prospects they like more than most others and have it count in the final results. For the most part, they just end up being background noise anyway (I haven't managed to get Zack Brown into the top 25 yet). Rather than eliminating the outliers from the final counts, you could mitigate the effect (at least of the highs) by doing something like giving 30 points for first and going down to six for 25th. That way six votes in the 20s could outweigh one vote at No. 1 that gets left off of the other five ballots, although it would admittedly hurt the negative outliers a little more if they are left off the top 25 entirely.

[reillymcshane]

Thanks everyone for you input on things. I would ask that we keep the thread on target. I don't want to get things too much off in the weeds. Just let people post and then move on.

 

Ultimately, this is a community project and it's going to have some different thinking (sometimes very different thinking). Some people have different ways of ranking players. Some people have a lot more knowledge of the minor leagues than others. That's okay. We want people to participate. I never want this to be an elitist exercise. As I said, it's a community project. We watch the votes carefully, and while I've never thrown one out (except for incomplete ballots), I will do it if someone is just being a jerk or trying to manipulate the system.

 

In the end, if we have good participation, the high vote total will cancel out the weirder selections.

[monkeyman343434]

1. Brandon Woodruff

2. Lewis Brinson

3. Brett Phillips

4. Keston Hiura

5. Corbin Burnes

6. Monte Harrison

7. Freddy Peralta

8. Lucas Erceg

9. Isan Diaz

10. Jake Gatewood

11. Tristen Lutz

12. Adrian Houser

13. Taylor Williams

14. Mauricio Dubon

15. Trent Clark

16. Luis Ortiz

17. Corey Ray

18. Troy Stokes Jr

19. Phil Bickford

20. Gabriel Garcia

21. KJ Harrison

22. Trey Supak

23. Jon Perrin

24. Nathan Kirby

25. Jacob Nottingham

 

26. Zack Brown

27. Cody Ponce

28. Kodi Medeiros

29. Marco Diplan

30. Devin Williams

31. Mario Feliciano

32. Jorge Lopez

33. Bubba Derby

34. Nate Orf

35.Larry Ernesto

36. Payton Henry

37. Caden Lemons

38. Carlos Herrera

39. Gilbert Lara

40. Josh Pennington

41. Demi Orimoloye

42. Nate Griep

43. Dustin Houle

44. Je’Von Ward

45. Nick Ramirez

46. Aaron Wilkerson

47. Angel Ventura

48. Angel Ortega

49. Forest Snow

50. Wuilder Rodriguez

51. Braden Webb

52. Thomas Jankins

53. Drake Owenby

54. Jose Gomez

55. Max Lazar

 

Had troubles ranking in order 26 - 55, it's more or less a "next group" type of list

[Kelbysdaddy]

Ratterree did have nice numbers and had won a minor league gold glove. Cant fault Clancy for thinking he could be a major league player. He also retired voluntarily.

[JosephC]

1. Lewis Brinson

2. Brandon Woodruff

3. Brett Phillips

4. Luis Ortiz

5. Isan Diaz

6. Keston Hiura

7. Corey Ray

8. Corbin Burnes

9. Trent Clark

10. Lucas Erceg

11. Mauricio Dubon

12. Freddy Peralta

13. Monte Harrison

14. Tristen Lutz

15. Marcos Diplan

16. Phil Bickford

17. Josh Pennington

18. Jake Gatewood

19. Jacob Nottingham

20. Cody Ponce

21. KJ Harrison

22. Trey Supak

23. Aaron Wilkerson

24. Taylor Williams

25. Bubba Derby

 

--------------------

 

26. Adrian Houser

27. Troy Stokes Jr.

28. Caden Lemons

29. Kodi Medeiros

30. Mario Feliciano

[Scooter102783]

1. Lewis Brinson, OF

2. Keston Hiura, 2B

3. Corbin Burnes, RHP

4. Brett Phillips, OF

5. Luis Ortiz, RHP

6. Isan Diaz, 2B

7. Brandon Woodruff, RHP

8. Monte Harrison, OF

9. Freddy Peralta, RHP

10. Lucas Erceg, 3B

11. Tristen Lutz, OF

12. Trent Clark, OF

13. Mauricio Dubon, SS

14. Cody Ponce, RHP

15. Corey Ray, OF

16. Phil Bickford, RHP

17. Jake Gatewood, 1B/3B

18. Mario Feliciano, C

19. K.J. Harrison, C/1B

20. Troy Stokes, OF

21. Jordan Yamamoto, RHP

22. Marcos Diplan, RHP

23. Trey Supak, RHP

24. Kodi Medeiros, LHP

25. Adrian Houser, RHP

 

26. Bubba Derby, RHP

27. Taylor Williams, RHP

28. Gabriel Garcia, 1B

29. Payton Henry, C

30. Josh Pennington, RHP

[FVBrewerFan]

This time around, Rodney Dangerfield Award clearly goes to Jordan Yamamoto.

[LouisEly]

As long as at least 30 people submit lists, one oddball list will not affect overall ratings.

 

But why someone would have Dallas Carroll ahead of Hiura - who hit much better at a much younger age at the same level - is beyond just looking at basic stats.

[zjl3]

1. Lewis Brinson

2. Corbin Burnes

3. Brett Phillips

4. Mauricio Dubon

5. Keston Hiura

6. Cody Ponce

7. Freddy Peralta

8. Brandon Woodruff

9. Luis Ortiz

10. Monte Harrison

11. Lucas Erceg

12. Tristen Lutz

13. Mario Feliciano

14. Isan Diaz

15. Trent Clark

16. Corey Ray

17. Josh Pennington

18. Phil Bickford

19. Jake Gatewood

20. Caden Lemons

21. Troy Stokes Jr.

22. Marcos Diplan

23. Trey Supak

24. KJ Harrison

25. Jordan Yamamoto

[clancyphile]

As long as at least 30 people submit lists, one oddball list will not affect overall ratings.

 

But why someone would have Dallas Carroll ahead of Hiura - who hit much better at a much younger age at the same level - is beyond just looking at basic stats.

 

It's the walk and strikeout rates.

 

Carroll: 28 BB and 40 K in 233 ABs

Hiura: 13 BB and 37 K in 167 ABs

[Brewerswillsurprise]

1. Brett Phillips

2. Corbin Burnes

3. Lewis Brinson

4. Keston Hiura

5. Brandon Woodruff

6. Cody Ponce

7. Freddy Peralta

8. Mauricio Dubon

9. Luis Ortiz

10 Monte Harrison

11.Lucas Erceg

12.Isan Diaz

13. Mario Feliciano

14.Tristan Lutz

15. Trent Clark

16. Corey Ray

17. Josh Pennington

18. Phil Bickford

19. Jake Gatewood

20. Caden Lemons

21. Troy Stokes Jr.

22. Marcos Diplan

23. Trey Supak

24. KJ Harrison

25. Jordan Yamamoto

[reillymcshane]

As long as at least 30 people submit lists, one oddball list will not affect overall ratings.

 

We are at 25 replies - so we should make 30+ by next week.

 

Thanks for everyone who's replied thus far.

[ZBTMP]

1) Brinson

2) Woodruff

3) Hiura

4) Burnes

5) M. Harrison

6) Clark

7) I. Diaz

8) Phillips

9) F. Peralta

10) L. Ortiz

11) Bickford

12) Dubon

13) Lutz

14) T. Williams

15) Stokes

16) Ray

17) Erceg

18) Yamamoto

19) Ponce

20) Herrera

21) J. Lopez

22) M. Feliciano

23) Wilkerson

24) Medeiros

25) Carmona

[Lathund]

1) Lewis Brinson

2) Keston Hiura

3) Corbin Burnes

4) Monte Harrison

5) Luis Ortiz

6) Tristen Lutz

7) Brandon Woodruff

8) Brett Phillips

9) Isan Diaz

10) Trent Clark

11) Lucas Erceg

12) Corey Ray

13) Mauricio Dubon

14) Freddy Peralta

15) Phil Bickford

16) Adrian Houser

17) KJ Harrison

18) Jordan Yamamoto

19) Jake Gatewood

20) Cody Ponce

21) Cooper Hummel

22) Mario Feliciano

23) Troy Stokes

24) Nathan Kirby

25) Marcos Diplan

 

26) Gabriel Garcia

27) Payton Henry

28) Bubba Derby

29) Carlos Herrera

30) Jacob Nottingham

 

This is one deep system. Some guys I have just outside this list wouldn't look out of place in the top 20, many of them are in the same tier pretty much. While I'm pretty set with the top 4 or so, the next 10 or so are very difficult to order as well. Luckily this is a combined effort, which compensates for that difficulty of individual ordering somewhat!

[Brewerswillsurprise]

Out of curiosity what constitutes a "odd ball list? Seems like you can personally rank these lists anyway you want based on how has a player played overall since getting drafted compared to the others? How has a player played just this past-season? Who is your favorite players? Which player do you think will out perform all others in the next few season? Seems very subjective. I suggest you clarify the parameters of how you want posters to rank the propsects such as using percentages of different categories and come up with a realistic scale so everyone is on the same page. I see nothing odd ball on any list so far as it depends on what data the poster is using. A argument can be made for or against every list posted so far.

[FVBrewerFan]

It is meant to be subjective. We all have our own criteria for ranking prospects. You can value results, weigh results from last season more than others, look at potential based on skills, take into account park factors, etc. Further, some posters will have much lower rankings for bullpen arms, guys they project to be bench players, etc.

 

Dictating how we rank them is probably not a very good idea. Actually, when I look at various prospect lists that get published I think ours ends up looking the best.

[reillymcshane]

Up front, we acknowledge that there are different ways to rank players. Everyone has their preferences. Some people love upside. Some people love production. Some people weigh performance in the upper minors more than others. Some people follow the minors closely, watch videos and read scouting reports. Others simply read a few prospect lists and move from there.

 

All is good.

 

I really want to stress that it is for fun - and it's a community thing. There will be some oddball lists (usually that's more like some selections very, very different than the rest of the voters) - but again, that's okay. The board is to engage Brewer fans and generate interest in the minor league area. I think that works - and having as many people as possible involved is great (in my opinion) even if I might not agree with some of their decisions.

 

As noted, I think we usually end up doing pretty well.

[LouisEly]

Are the first two lists on this page the same person? Seem eerily similar to me, and the bottom halves exactly similar.