Wisconsin Basketball Thread 2017-18

[pacopete4]

Well even before the season starts, we don't get great news. Herro de-commits as the rumors for Duke moving on it.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

It's never good to lose a guy like Herro. However, the incoming class looks promising, so maybe they can weather that a bit.

 

I'm interested in how this team develops this year. In particular, will Happ's rumored jump shot become a real thing? Can Trice manage the load as PG, or will Davison have to play significant minutes as a frosh? Which big man emerges as a secondary threat (Reuvers, Illikanen, Van Vliet, Thomas)? Is Iverson's game more complete and balanced? This feels like the first real Gard year to me, if that makes sense. This team is going to present challenges, so we'll see how the staff handles it.

 

One thing I'm excited about is the non-conference schedule. It seems to me like a really good challenge yourself without setting up for failure sched. Yale and Western Kentucky are good mid-major games (though the latter would have been better without their recent departures), and going to Temple is never easy. @ Virginia for the ACC challenge, Xavier and Marquette at home, and Baylor and Creighton/UCLA in the MTE. There are a few "guarantee" type games, but that's pretty good, even if I'd like one more true road game.

 

The guy I'm probably most interested in is Trice. Really looking forward to seeing the kind of player he is this year. He showed flashes last year before struggling at the end.

[Humans Need Water]

Well even before the season starts, we don't get great news. Herro de-commits as the rumors for Duke moving on it.

Won't be Duke. Herro is overrated anyway. Wisconsin's style aligns with his game and he's making a mistake going with a big name as he's not a 1 and Done player. But the whispers in his ear are saying such things, hence his announcement yesterday

[OnaBadger58]

Well even before the season starts, we don't get great news. Herro de-commits as the rumors for Duke moving on it.

Won't be Duke. Herro is overrated anyway. Wisconsin's style aligns with his game and he's making a mistake going with a big name as he's not a 1 and Done player. But the whispers in his ear are saying such things, hence his announcement yesterday

Not sure if he's overrated. He's a very good spot shooter, shooter off the dribble, ball handler, and passer. He doesn't have crazy athletesim or much defense at this point. I agree he fits Wisconsin's style of play so much better than UNC, Kentucky, or Oregon's style of play.

 

Does this suck, yes, but it's his decision. I'll take the players that truly want to be Badgers over players like Herro. I do get a annoyed with Herro decommiting a month before signing day when he's be "solid" for over a year. Now Wisconsin is left hanging.

 

If there is any silver lining it's that his position has good, young depth. It will obviosly hurt not having him, but having King and crew softens the blow.

[Humans Need Water]

Well even before the season starts, we don't get great news. Herro de-commits as the rumors for Duke moving on it.

Won't be Duke. Herro is overrated anyway. Wisconsin's style aligns with his game and he's making a mistake going with a big name as he's not a 1 and Done player. But the whispers in his ear are saying such things, hence his announcement yesterday

Not sure if he's overrated. He's a very good spot shooter, shooter off the dribble, ball handler, and passer. He doesn't have crazy athletesim or much defense at this point. I agree he fits Wisconsin's style of play so much better than UNC, Kentucky, or Oregon's style of play.

 

Does this suck, yes, but it's his decision. I'll take the players that truly want to be Badgers over players like Herro. I do get a annoyed with Herro decommiting a month before signing day when he's be "solid" for over a year. Now Wisconsin is left hanging.

 

If there is any silver lining it's that his position has good, young depth. It will obviosly hurt not having him, but having King and crew softens the blow.

His best asset is his shooting ability. He's solid handling the ball and passing but by no means is he very good in those areas. Someone like McCabe destroys him there. And as you mentioned he lacks the great athleticism that others possess at the schools he wants (KY, UNC, etc) and he won't hold up defensively because he also lacks the quickness. Factor all this in and that's why I say he's overrated - I think he's rated 27-38 area on most lists.

 

Reality is people are in his ear about being a 1 and Done and his eyes are widening. He thinks going to KY, UNC, etc give him a much better chance to become that 1 and Done. However, if you can play at that level it doesn't matter if you play for WI or KY. Additionally, if he wants KY, UNC he's also competing against the other 1 and Done kids who will be his teammates not to mention the next class of 1 and Done's if he stays beyond 1yr - all those kids are better players and athletes. Yes, it's his decision. But that doesn't mean he's making the best choice for his future.

 

I don't care if he plays for WI or not because his decision doesn't affect my life now or in the future. My issue is with kids, and their parents, who allow this type of nonsense to happen because all they see and hear is big money after freshman year when that's not going to happen.

[JackNicholson1974]

More power to him. Does it disappoint me as a Wisconsin homer that he is leaving? Hell yes. But I also am confident in where this program is that not only will WI be fine without him, buy they would probably beat the team he signs with.

 

I grew up here in Wisconsin, I went to Madison for school. Its a really good football, basketball and academic school. An incredible college atmosphere and town. I could not imagine anything better than playing for that school. But not all people that grow up here feel the same way, and I understand that.

[Humans Need Water]

More power to him. Does it disappoint me as a Wisconsin homer that he is leaving? Hell yes. But I also am confident in where this program is that not only will WI be fine without him, buy they would probably beat the team he signs with.

 

I grew up here in Wisconsin, I went to Madison for school. Its a really good football, basketball and academic school. An incredible college atmosphere and town. I could not imagine anything better than playing for that school. But not all people that grow up here feel the same way, and I understand that.

You forgot hockey too! I think Women's VBall has been great as well (at least recently).

 

Herro is a WI fan, which is why he committed over a year ago. What's changed is he's being fed he's a 1 and Done and that's just not what the WI bball program does. That's what KY and such do and that's why his interests changed. It is what it is. As everyone's mentioned there's still good talent and depth at the guard position for the next 3yrs without him and they'll add additional talent there over the next couple years too.

[OnTheBlack]

 

I don't care if he plays for WI or not because his decision doesn't affect my life now or in the future. My issue is with kids, and their parents, who allow this type of nonsense to happen because all they see and hear is big money after freshman year when that's not going to happen.

 

You're saying "my issue is" but then not saying what your "issue" with it actually is. And this "nonsense" is him picking from all the top programs in the country and trying to find the one that gives him the best chance to go into a profession in which he'll make more in 2-3 years than most of us will make is a lifetime and he can have a whole other career and start collecting...70K or whatever it is exactly at age 50(plus health which is like another 30K a year)...and that's if he just hangs around and doesn't do anything in the league. And since that's kinda the whole point of college...to improve your future potential earnings...I can't see how you could in good conscious advise him to do anything but that. Duke...Kentucky, UNC, Nova, Arizona...all schools who have clearly done a better job of developing and showcasing NBA talent than Wisconsin. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't and can't produce NBA talent....it's just that they don't nearly as much as those other programs. I actually think Gard's system will end up showcasing guys moreso than Ryan did, but they still operate in a much different fashion.

 

I would obviously rather see him become a Badger because I have a rooting interest of the team. But if a kid wanted to go into Law, wouldn't you recommend he go to school that is going to be the most advantageous for him? I don't see why this would be any different.

 

The one thing I do wish these leagues could/would do is try to find some way to help these kids invest their money more wisely...but that's impossible to do other than just telling them and pointing them in the right direction. At least the NBA has a great pension plan(they should all be thanking Bob Cousey for founding the NBAPA). But I digress.

[igor67]

The point of going to college is not to increase future earnings. In any endeavor that belief is bad for education.

[bani1717]

The point of going to college is not to increase future earnings. In any endeavor that belief is bad for education.

 

In some cases your first sentence might be true, but it is certainly not true in all cases. Maybe in your opinion that's not the point of going to college, but for a lot of people, it is (whether you think that's bad for education or not).

[DHonks]

The point of going to college is not to increase future earnings. In any endeavor that belief is bad for education.

 

is this meant for basketball or for all areas? The purpose of college is to increase human capital, which should result in higher future earnings. Anyone not choosing to utilize college to better themselves and their situation is making a terrible mistake. For a college basketball player, the goal should be to learn, get stronger, and perform in such a way as to increase their earning potential, including draft position.

[ZBTMP]

I can't see how you could in good conscious advise him to do anything but that. Duke...Kentucky, UNC, Nova, Arizona...all schools who have clearly done a better job of developing and showcasing NBA talent than Wisconsin. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't and can't produce NBA talent....it's just that they don't nearly as much as those other programs. I actually think Gard's system will end up showcasing guys moreso than Ryan did, but they still operate in a much different fashion.

 

Im not sure I can agree with this statement. Since Ryan took over, Wisconsin has had (1) McDonald's All-American, yet has still produced 4 NBA first rounders. Other guys like Steisma, Leuer, Butch, Landry, and even Dukan have made NBA rosters.

 

I don't think there is much evidence to say Wisconsin is "worse" at developing NBA talent, it just isn't landing as much of it as those programs. There are certainly many reasons why, but playing the game at reduced possessions as well as zero tolerance for turnovers are amongst them.

[nate82]

I can't see how you could in good conscious advise him to do anything but that. Duke...Kentucky, UNC, Nova, Arizona...all schools who have clearly done a better job of developing and showcasing NBA talent than Wisconsin. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't and can't produce NBA talent....it's just that they don't nearly as much as those other programs. I actually think Gard's system will end up showcasing guys moreso than Ryan did, but they still operate in a much different fashion.

 

Im not sure I can agree with this statement. Since Ryan took over, Wisconsin has had (1) McDonald's All-American, yet has still produced 4 NBA first rounders. Other guys like Steisma, Leuer, Butch, Landry, and even Dukan have made NBA rosters.

 

I don't think there is much evidence to say Wisconsin is "worse" at developing NBA talent, it just isn't landing as much of it as those programs. There are certainly many reasons why, but playing the game at reduced possessions as well as zero tolerance for turnovers are amongst them.

 

That statement isn't entirely false. While Wisconsin has done a good job at developing players they are not all that good at showcasing that talent. Wisconsin has gotten a little bit better at it but they are no where near a Duke and Kentucky in terms of showcasing the talent that they have. This is really where Wisconsin has missed out on players and I think this is fine for Wisconsin basketball.

 

I believe a school like Wisconsin and Michigan State are best when they are targeting players that they know are going to be committed to the team for at least 3-years. The system and the style that Wisconsin and Michigan State run is just a better match for someone who is going to be there for at least 3-years. Bringing in someone that is going to be there for a 1 and done just doesn't really fit into the system that Wisconsin and Michigan State run. This also makes the player more complete when they enter the draft and helps them out more and the players are already more acclimated to an NBA like program for players who go to Wisconsin or Michigan State than if they go to Kentucky or UNC.

[Humans Need Water]

 

I don't care if he plays for WI or not because his decision doesn't affect my life now or in the future. My issue is with kids, and their parents, who allow this type of nonsense to happen because all they see and hear is big money after freshman year when that's not going to happen.

 

You're saying "my issue is" but then not saying what your "issue" with it actually is. And this "nonsense" is him picking from all the top programs in the country and trying to find the one that gives him the best chance to go into a profession in which he'll make more in 2-3 years than most of us will make is a lifetime and he can have a whole other career and start collecting...70K or whatever it is exactly at age 50(plus health which is like another 30K a year)...and that's if he just hangs around and doesn't do anything in the league. And since that's kinda the whole point of college...to improve your future potential earnings...I can't see how you could in good conscious advise him to do anything but that. Duke...Kentucky, UNC, Nova, Arizona...all schools who have clearly done a better job of developing and showcasing NBA talent than Wisconsin. It's not like Wisconsin doesn't and can't produce NBA talent....it's just that they don't nearly as much as those other programs. I actually think Gard's system will end up showcasing guys moreso than Ryan did, but they still operate in a much different fashion.

 

I would obviously rather see him become a Badger because I have a rooting interest of the team. But if a kid wanted to go into Law, wouldn't you recommend he go to school that is going to be the most advantageous for him? I don't see why this would be any different.

 

The one thing I do wish these leagues could/would do is try to find some way to help these kids invest their money more wisely...but that's impossible to do other than just telling them and pointing them in the right direction. At least the NBA has a great pension plan(they should all be thanking Bob Cousey for founding the NBAPA). But I digress.

Huh? Is this real life? I clearly stated the "issue" I had with it and why.

 

Herro committed to WI over a year ago. The past couple months people have been in his ear telling him he's a ONE AND DONE candidate because of his recent showings. As a result, he backed out of WI and is targeting KY (his top choice) but is also interested in UNC, AZ (+ others but those are the top 3) but he still needs official offers from them - I thought he already had AZ a long time ago but haven't paid attention to any updated offers. But he's interested in those programs because they do a much better job at getting players to the next level than WI. But if people weren't in his ear about ONE AND DONE then he'd still be committed to WI.

 

He's not a ONE AND DONE kid though. He's not an elite HS player. As a freshman you need to be elite - you need to be a top 2 option on your team and have a great year showing great potential to continue to grow. How is Herro going to be a top 2 option on KY, UNC? Guess what happens when he's not a ONE AND DONE? The following year he's now competing against the incoming Top 10 elite players coming out of HS and that will be an annual trend at those programs. He's a 6'5 guard - there's a ton of guards his size and bigger who are quicker, faster, better ball handlers, better passers, better rebounders, better shot creators (Herro is a legit shooter though). Again, he's not targeting those schools to help him develop into a NBA player after 3-4yrs. He's targeting them now because he's being told he's a ONE AND DONE. Hence the "nonsense" comment. He hears that and sees dollar signs (so does his family). Same with Diamond Stone. He wasn't a ONE AND DONE to the point he could contribute in the NBA as a 19yr old. He should have stayed at least one more year to refine his game, put up much better numbers as he could have been a 1st Rd pick and been set for life with a guaranteed rookie contract. Instead he went in the 2nd Rd and has been cut 3x in the past calendar year.

 

And you can't understand how someone, in good conscience, could advise him NOT to head to KY or UNC? My goodness. He's not a Top 10 elite player. He's an overrated guard who's rated as highly as he is solely because he's been on the circuit for 4yrs compared to someone like McCabe who just joined the circuit, which is why he's rated much lower. My advice to any kid is to choose the right program for their style of play, coaching staff, team around them, school, etc etc. Choose the right fit. Not choose the best of the best solely because people are putting garbage thoughts in your head.

[homer]

So they've now beaten Mizzou (pre season top 10) and UNI (pre season #2 pick for MVC) in scrimmages. I think this team and a few of the freshmen are really going to surprise people.

[ZBTMP]

Wisconsin looked strong last night. Kobe King has a pretty looking jumper and impressive athleticism. Can create his own shot and will draw a lot of fouls putting defenders in awkward positions (plus he’ll actually make free throws…) Even looked comfortable with the ball in the post. If there are 41 true freshman sg better than him well.. recruiting rankings are imperfect; there aren’t 41 sg better than him.

I cringe at possessions ending with Iverson or Ford putting up a 3, but if they can make 40% of wide open looks and force teams to defend that; Wisconsin will win a lot of games. Van Vliet wasn’t perfect tonight but he looked passable defensively and can cause problems for teams defensively.

Cautiously optimistic right now, the offense will go through shooting slumps and Im still not sure what the offense is at the end of the shot clock. Trice hasn’t shown he can consistently make shots isolating or working off ball screens. But the defense seems good enough they should be competitive.

[pacopete4]

It doesn't shock me that Wisconsin gets overlooked to start the season. It's pretty much a given at this point. And when they knock off a few teams to begin the year, I won't be shocked at that either. They will have some bumps due to inexperience but Gard will have them where they need to be come Big 10 play.

[MrTPlush]

So they've now beaten Mizzou (pre season top 10) and UNI (pre season #2 pick for MVC) in scrimmages. I think this team and a few of the freshmen are really going to surprise people.

 

Mizzou is a Top 10 team where?

[pacopete4]

So they've now beaten Mizzou (pre season top 10) and UNI (pre season #2 pick for MVC) in scrimmages. I think this team and a few of the freshmen are really going to surprise people.

 

Mizzou is a Top 10 team where?

 

In Missouri.

[homer]

So they've now beaten Mizzou (pre season top 10) and UNI (pre season #2 pick for MVC) in scrimmages. I think this team and a few of the freshmen are really going to surprise people.

 

Mizzou is a Top 10 team where?

 

My bad. I read it wrong. Top 10 recruiting class per some people. They are in the "also receiving votes" category of the AP pre season top 25.

[ZBTMP]

I just noticed that the Badgers play conference games the first week of December including a game against OSU the same day as the Big Ten football championship. If it happens, Im guessing it is the first time that the football and basketball team played the same school on the same day. I presume this has something to do with the BTT a week early at the Garden.

[homer]

Kobe King and Brad Davison might be really good.

[pacopete4]

Kobe King and Brad Davison might be really good.

 

I'm very excited for these two but they won't be facing UNI/Stout anymore so we'll find out in a hurry how much they will contribute. Hoping for big things and the next wave of great Wisconsin players.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Had a chance to watch the Stout exhibition. Granted, you can't tell much from a game like that, but a couple of observations.

 

Van Vliet looks improved. Looking forward to seeing how he handles tougher competition.

 

King is both talented and athletic. He could be really good.

 

Ilikanen is in the doghouse, for sure.

 

Davison can shoot, but his ballhandling looked really shaky, even against the Stout press. This team is going to be thin at point guard again, which is scary.

 

Getting Trice healthy is going to be important. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if Yale beats Wisconsin without Trice. With him, I feel much better about the Badgers' odds.

 

Pritzl, King, Iverson, and whoever else plays the 2 or 3 are all going to have to hit 3s off the double. Happ is going to be doubled a lot, and this team probably goes as far as jump shooting takes them.

[pacopete4]

Badgers on BTN Plus. Such crap. My excitement for the opener didnt last long.