Portland and Montreal + Radical Realignment

[Warning Track Power]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/columnists/expansion-trigger-realignment-longer-postseason/?utm_content=buffer74167&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#Mbm5CdMxttImIi9F.97

 

I don't know what to make of this. I disagree with the proposed realignment plan so I will ignore it. 4 divisions of 8 teams would make some sense and would certainly work even if I were to prefer 8 divisions of 4 teams. I like some aspects of the elimination of the NL-AL as it will finally put all the big market east coast teams in one division (Yankees, Mets, Red Sox) but dislike it from a historical standpoint. With the advent of Interleague Play though, the NL-AL divorce is inevitable in my opinion especially once the DH is either universally adopted or abolished. I do think the placement of a team in Portland (a natural rival to Seattle) would be a good add, as well as adding a new (old) team in Montreal.

[madbad2000]

The alignment is interesting to play around with. I think Portland is a great choice. I used to be against the DH, but the game has changed. No way the Union lets the DH go away and it's inevitable that it will be universal. As fun as it is to watch a pitcher that can hit, the vast majority are too specialized and it can get pretty bad to watch at times.

[paul253]

I hate the idea of giving a franchise to a city who already lost a franchise due to lack of support. Do they really want a team or do they just miss having one? I’d prefer a team in Charlotte, San Antonio or even Las Vegas. Portland seems like a good choice though. Natural rivalry with Seattle.

 

As far as Division setup I’d prefer 8 four team divisions. I don’t think the two NY teams or two Chicago teams, not to mention LAA and LAD or Oakland and SF would ever agree to be in the same division. But I also like the idea of eliminating the whole AL/NL thing. I’ve always believed the AL teams have a huge advantage in terms of franchise building plus you’ve seen so many serious injuries involving pitchers while they are either batting or running.

[JosephC]

I don't like the idea of adding more teams. There were two teams last year that averaged under 20,000 fans per game and another five that were under 25,000 fans per game. I am not a fan of contraction but when looking at situations like Tampa Bay I have to wonder if it's really a good idea to have a team there? I'm not a fan of moving franchises either but it just seems like common sense for the Tampa Bay franchise to move to Portland rather than adding yet another team and thinning out the major league talent across the league.

[owbc]

32 teams is inevitable and one of them will be Montreal. There is plenty of evidence out there that baseball will succeed in Montreal...Jays' TV ratings, preseason attendance, etc. I'm not entirely convinced on Portland but they do have excellent fan support for the Blazers and Timbers. If an ownership group can get a retractable roof stadium built...why not. It's certainly a more interesting place than Charlotte or Indianapolis or another Texas team. The Rays situation is not as bad as it looks from attendance...TV ratings are fine although they will need a better-located stadium at some point.

 

The big selling points are really the realignment and 156-game schedule, both of which look like big pluses. Some teams (e.g. Seattle) are at a huge disadvantage right now because of the schedule.

 

This might be wishful thinking but I see this as an opportunity to get rid of the DH rather than implement it league-wide. The travel improvements + extra roster spots from expansion are big wins for the players, so maybe the usual argument about loss of position player roster spots would be easier to stomach. I also think that MLB defense has gotten too good and it would make things a little more interesting to get some questionable defenders in there rather than hiding them at DH. There's also the argument that expansion will probably increase offense so letting pitchers hit might offset that a bit.

 

Last thought...based on geography it is more logical for the Brewers, not the Twins to go to the north division. But I know I would be vehemently opposed to this (as I'm sure Twins fans are) if I knew the Brewers were going to be stuck with all those big market teams.

[Invader3K]

I like the plan a lot. Really, the AL and NL are relics of a bygone era. They aren't really needed anymore.

 

I love the idea of emphasizing the regional rivalries with the restructured divisions.

 

Montreal absolutely deserves the chance to have a team again. Washington lost a team (twice), but it seems like the Nationals are doing OK there right now. Portland also makes a ton of sense.

[clancyphile]

I'm for adding two teams, but instead doing the divisions like this:

 

AL East: Boston, Yankees, Blue Jays, Orioles

AL West: Seattle, Angels, A's, Portland

AL North: Twins, Tigers, White Sox, Indians

AL South: Rays, Rangers, Royals, Astros

 

NL East: Mets, Phillies, Expos, Nationals

NL West: Dodgers, Giants, Padres, Rockies

NL North: Brewers, Cubs, Reds, Pirates

NL South: Cardinals, Marlins, Braves, Diamondbacks

 

Or better yet, go to two eight team divisions:

 

AL East: Boston, Yankees, Blue Jays, Orioles, Rays, Tigers, Indians, Royals

AL West: Portland, Seattle, Angels, A's, Twins, Rangers, Astros, White Sox

 

NL East: Mets, Phillies, Montreal, Nationals, Braves, Reds, Marlins, Pirates

NL West: Brewers, Cubs, Cardinals, Padres, Giants, Dodgers, Rockies, Diamondbacks

[trwi7]

They are not going to have a team in Phoenix in the same division as teams in Atlanta and Miami. That is insane.

 

AL East

 

New York

Boston

Toronto

Detroit or Cleveland

 

AL South

 

Tampa

Texas

Houston

Baltimore

 

AL North

 

Chicago

Cleveland or Detroit

Minnesota

Kansas City

 

AL West

 

Anaheim

Seattle

Oakland

Portland

 

NL East

 

New York

Philadelphia

Pittsburgh

Montreal

 

 

NL South

 

Miami

Atlanta

Cincinnati

Washington

 

NL North

 

St. Louis

Chicago

Milwaukee

Colorado

 

NL West

 

Los Angeles

San Diego

Arizona

San Francisco

[MrTPlush]

I support the set up with 4 teams per division more than the 8 team divisions. If I was a Minnesota fan I might as well just stop watching if I get put in a division with two NYC teams, Detroit, and Boston. How on earth is that a good idea?

 

Any expansion needs to focus on breaking up big markets in a realignment. Not that big markets don't have down years/times, but if you stack them that much a small market is pretty unlikely to ever win that division.

[pacopete4]

No divisions. AL and NL and take the top 5 teams. Play a balanced schedule so all are equal. Enough of teams catching breaks based on their schedules. Put the DH in the NL and start making some common sense decisions.

[bork]

I hate the idea of giving a franchise to a city who already lost a franchise due to lack of support.

 

Some would say baseball failed Montreal. They were on their way to the postseason and possibly their first World Series when the strike wiped out the World Series. They were also on pace to draw almost 2 million fans that year. Fan support dried up after the strike.

 

As for the realignment, I'm not a fan of being in a division with Colorado and the Texas teams, but not Cleveland or Detroit, from both a travel and tradition standpoint.

[Vgmastr]

The problem with eight four-team divisions is you either have to eliminate the wild card or expand the playoffs to 16 teams, neither of which is going to happen. With four eight-team divisions you get four division winners and eight wild cards with four wild card games. Four one game playoffs are the TV network's dream.

[jerichoholicninja]

The problem with eight four-team divisions is you either have to eliminate the wild card or expand the playoffs to 16 teams, neither of which is going to happen. With four eight-team divisions you get four division winners and eight wild cards with four wild card games. Four one game playoffs are the TV network's dream.

 

No. You just have each of the 8 division winners make the playoffs. I can't believe the ratings for the wild card games are that much more than a series. Maybe this year they are since the Yankees played in one.

[Vgmastr]

The problem with eight four-team divisions is you either have to eliminate the wild card or expand the playoffs to 16 teams, neither of which is going to happen. With four eight-team divisions you get four division winners and eight wild cards with four wild card games. Four one game playoffs are the TV network's dream.

 

No. You just have each of the 8 division winners make the playoffs. I can't believe the ratings for the wild card games are that much more than a series. Maybe this year they are since the Yankees played in one.

 

Then you'll get a .500 or under team making the playoffs while a 90+ win team misses out.

[Bombers]

I like Trwi7's alignment. The NFL has it right and just follow suit. (even for the playoffs: 6 teams.) People make the argument well teams don't want to sit, but they are already sitting. The season ended on Sunday and LAD, WAS and CHC didn't play until Friday. For playoffs take the top 4 division winners and 2 wild card teams and you can do a 3 game series for seeds 3 through 6. Seeds 1 and 2 get a "bye" and instead of starting on Friday, start on Saturday.

 

Here is an example

Season ends on a Sunday.

Monday is open for tie breakers. but would need to figure out how to break multiple ties. Could always push 3 game series start to Wedensday - Friday on this rare scenario

Division winner would get all 3 games at home, start on Tuesday, done by Thursday. Win the division. Wild cards don't get home games. 6 @ 3, 5 @ 4

Would need Friday open for rain makeup.

Then start playoffs on Saturday. (pushes divisional round back 1 day). Seed 6, 5 or 4 @ 1 and then seed 5, 4 or 3 @ 2.

[Bombers]

While I like Trwi7's alignment we could just go for State / Border Battles and re-do this whole thing:

Used this map: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e6/85/81/e6858111aff2517276dc4874331094ae.jpg

 

North East: New York, New York, Boston, Montreal

East: Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Washington

North: Detroit, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Toronto

Midwest North: Minnesota, Milwaukee, Chicago, Chicago

 

Texas vs Florida: Florida, Tampa, Texas, Houston

Midwest: Atlanta, Kansas City, St Louis, Colorado

North West: Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Oakland

South West: Los Angeles, Anaheim, San Diego, Arizona

[gregmag]

I hate the idea of giving a franchise to a city who already lost a franchise due to lack of support.

 

Some would say baseball failed Montreal. They were on their way to the postseason and possibly their first World Series when the strike wiped out the World Series. They were also on pace to draw almost 2 million fans that year. Fan support dried up after the strike.

 

I may have talked about this before here, but Olympic Park in Montreal was probably the most depressing building of any kind that I've ever been in. Including hospitals and funeral homes. It was (is?) a giant cement mausoleum. It made the Metrodome look like Camden Yards.

 

Anybody who attended a game in that hellhole had to love baseball more than their own sanity. I can't imagine why any casual fan would have set foot in the place more than once. The strike reaming is one great reason to cut Montreal some slack, and the fact that their ballpark needed Prozac concession stands is another.

[homer]

The downtown ballpark proposal that fell through in Montreal looked amazing. That's a great city and would have been a terrific road trip. Olympic stadium is way out in the boonies and there's nothing around it (although that may have changed in the last five years since I was there).

[jerichoholicninja]

The problem with eight four-team divisions is you either have to eliminate the wild card or expand the playoffs to 16 teams, neither of which is going to happen. With four eight-team divisions you get four division winners and eight wild cards with four wild card games. Four one game playoffs are the TV network's dream.

 

No. You just have each of the 8 division winners make the playoffs. I can't believe the ratings for the wild card games are that much more than a series. Maybe this year they are since the Yankees played in one.

 

Then you'll get a .500 or under team making the playoffs while a 90+ win team misses out.

 

It happens.

 

If that's a concern then ditch all forms of dividing teams up and have everyone play each other the same amount of times and the top whatever teams make the playoffs.

[Warning Track Power]

My proposal would go something like this:

 

WEST DIVISION #1

Los Angeles Dodgers

Los Angeles Angels

San Diego Padres

Arizona Diamondbacks

 

WEST DIVISION #2

San Francisco Giants

Oakland Athletics

Seattle Mariners

Portland

 

MIDWEST DIVISION #1

Milwaukee Brewers

Minnesota Twins

Chicago Cubs

Chicago White Sox

 

MIDWEST DIVISION #2

St. Louis Cardinals

Kansas City Royals

Colorado Rockies

Texas Rangers

 

SOUTH DIVISION #1

Houston Astros

Atlanta Braves

Miami Marlins

Tampa Bay Rays

 

SOUTH DIVISION #2

Washington Nationals

Baltimore Orioles

Pittsburgh Pirates

Cincinnati Reds

 

EAST DIVISION #1

New York Yankees

New York Mets

Boston Red Sox

Philadelphia Phillies

 

EAST DIVISION #2

Toronto Blue Jays

Montreal Expos

Detroit Tigers

Cleveland Indians

 

PLAYOFFS:

-Division Winners make the playoffs

 

-4 Wild Cards (best record of team in West, Midwest, South and East divisions to not win division)

 

-Wild Card winner plays the Division winner within their Division with worst record. For example, the Brewers win the Midwest #1 Division and Rockies win the Midwest #2 Division, with the Brewers having the better record between the two. The Twins have the best record of the teams in the Midwest Divisions that didn't win the division. Twins play @ the Rockies in a play-in game to determine who moves onto the Divisional Series to play the Brewers.

 

-Winner of the West and Midwest Divisional Series & the winner of the South and East Divisional Series play in the League Championship Series.

 

-Winners of those meet in World Series.

 

EXAMPLE PLAYOFF (assumes second team in Division Winners has the worse record of the division winners)

 

West Division Winners: Giants and Padres

West Wild Card: Athletics

West Wild Card Winner: Padres

West DLS: Padres @ Giants

West DLS Winner: Padres

 

Midwest Division Winners: Brewers and Rockies

Midwest Wild Card: Twins

Midwest Wild Card Winner: Twins

Midwest DLS: Twins @ Brewers

Midwest DLS Winner: Brewers

 

South Division Winners: Nationals and Astros

South Wild Card: Orioles

South Wild Card Winner: Orioles

South DLS: Orioles @ Nationals

South DLS Winner: Nationals

 

East Division Winners: Phillies and Indians

East Wild Card: Tigers

East Wild Card Winner: Indians

East DLS: Indians @ Phillies

East DLS Winner: Indians

 

LEAGUE CHAMPIONSHIP SERIES

West vs. Midwest: Padres vs. Brewers

Winner: Brewers

South vs. East: Nationals vs. Indians

Winner: Indians

 

WORLD SERIES

Brewers vs. Indians

 

I would love to see this proposal play out. The advent of the Wild Card by division would hopefully eliminate those teams which are divisional winners with possible .500 or so records as they will have to play in a Wild Card play-in game. Additionally, you still have somewhat of a regional rivalry with other teams in your "division". Think of the two divisions per geographical area as the B1G West and East with a Conference Championship game. So while the Dodgers-Giants and Cubs-Cardinals are not in the same division, they do play in the same "division." This proposal makes so much sense to me and I would love to see it implemented.

[owbc]

I don't see the point of doing a radical realignment with 4-team divisions. I would add both Portland and Montreal to the AL and send the Astros back to the NL (or potentially the Royals or Twins). One of the central time zone teams still gets stuck with eastern time zone teams, but at least there are only 4 team divisions so it's not as bad as it otherwise could be.

[FVBrewerFan]

Random thoughts about this.

 

Would Portland work? NBA and MLS work in Portland because it's a very young city. Just not sure the city would really embrace MLB, I don't know, just doesn't seem like a baseball city.

 

Why not Indy? Whenever expansion comes up, or teams moving, seems Indy never comes up. History of AAA ball there, and I could see the whole state backing them- similar to the Brewers and Twins. Maybe they even market hard in Louisville and develop a fan base coming up from there.

 

As far as divisions go, for selfish reasons I would like to see the Brewers in a "small market division" with any of Minn, KC, Pitt, Cincy, etc.

[patrickgpe]

I understand why MLB and MLBPA would want to expand, but it will be as the risk of their product. Everyone knows there are not enough MLB quality pitchers to staff 30 MLB pitching staffs, much less 32.

 

Secondly besides being able to see out a baseball game every spring Montreal has done nothing to deserve getting a new team. With San Antonio getting AAA baseball after next season, I don't see them being an option unless that team is moved elsewhere. Portland is very intriguing as the Blazers are well supported.

 

Personally I'd rather go to Mexico City rather than Montreal if they are truly desperate to add 2 teams. Charlotte would be a good option too

[Invader3K]

re: Montreal, don't forget that a couple years ago there were a couple exhibition games played there, and they drew huge crowds. The people in Montreal will support a team again, if given the chance and assuming they can build a modern stadium.

[MadThinker88]

re: Montreal, don't forget that a couple years ago there were a couple exhibition games played there, and they drew huge crowds. The people in Montreal will support a team again, if given the chance and assuming they can build a modern stadium.

 

They have also been having end of spring training exhibitions in San Antonio for the past few years with some similar success.

Anyone know if they have been doing anything similar in Portland?

 

On a side note I am surprised that MLB is not looking to put a major league team in Charlotte. City/ Area has grown immensely since the last round of expansion....