How Do We Feel About Corey Ray At This Point?

[MkeSouthSide]

From Fangraphs Prospect Chat today, with Eric Longenhagen:

 

Pablo

1:02 What caused Corey Ray's poor showing this year? What are you looking for from him in the AFL?

 

Eric A Longenhagen

1:03 I'm still not sure. He's very stationary at the plate, no stride. I'd like to see him more active in the box. This is an explosive guy, why not let him be explosive? He's been fine in CF here in my looks but reports from the season were mixed. His ball/strike recognition is good, the bat speed is fine, he's running fine. I still think he's going to be good. He is visibly frustrated, though.

[Lathund]

Reading the chat with Fangraphs' prospect guy Eric Longenhagen, and someone asked a question about Corey Ray's struggles;

 

"I'm still not sure. He's very stationary at the plate, no stride. I'd like to see him more active in the box. This is an explosive guy, why not let him be explosive? He's been fine in CF here in my looks but reports from the season were mixed. His ball/strike recognition is good, the bat speed is fine, he's running fine. I still think he's going to be good. He is visibly frustrated, though"

[reillymcshane]

From Fangraphs Prospect Chat today, with Eric Longenhagen:

 

Pablo

1:02 What caused Corey Ray's poor showing this year? What are you looking for from him in the AFL?

 

Eric A Longenhagen

1:03 I'm still not sure. He's very stationary at the plate, no stride. I'd like to see him more active in the box. This is an explosive guy, why not let him be explosive? He's been fine in CF here in my looks but reports from the season were mixed. His ball/strike recognition is good, the bat speed is fine, he's running fine. I still think he's going to be good. He is visibly frustrated, though.

Keith Law said something similar - looks like his approach has changed - and not for the better. Good bat speed, moving well, good defense, good at bats (but poor results). Not a lot of movement in the batter's box. Not hitting the ball hard.

[reillymcshane]

I didn't like the Ray pick, I've been critical, but I'm more at the "disappointing" part of the spectrum and hoping he turns it around.

This would sum up my thoughts also. I wasn’t a fan of the draft pick, but despite the disappointing results there are still elements of his physical abilities that leave hope he can develop into a major league contributor. It seems like scouts have always been higher on Ray than public opinion, and I think there are scouts that still see plenty of talent. That being said, I think next year is really important in terms of seeing improvements on the statistical end such as reducing his strikeout rate and elevating his on-base %.

I think both these comments hit things pretty well. You want someone special out of the #5 pick. Unfortunately, it was kind of a tough year to pick high in the draft. I think there was a lack of standouts compared to other years.

[AKCheesehead]

Agree with what is above. Wasn't a big fan of the pick, underwhelmed with results thus far. I took some time to look over the results for guys picked in the first round after our #5 Ray pick. Just from a statistical standpoint, Ray is very underwhelming as we all know, but so are quite a lot of the round 1 picks so far. At the time of the draft I was hoping we would take Puk. Now with hindsight, I wish we'd taken the #17 pick Forrest Whitley.

 

In any case, Ray is who we've got and I'm just hopeful he starts to put things together in 2018.

[clancyphile]

Right now, if he makes the majors, he's a 5th OF with some speed and defense.

 

Do I think he can put it together? Possible. While he didn't draw as many walks as Trent Clark, he did have 48 BB to 449 ABs. Probably should have started in Wisconsin in 2016, and then gone to A+ in 2017. As it is, Brevard County may have fouled him up a little.

[MilwaukeesBest]

Kind of just a philosophical question I guess because I don't pretend to know all the in's and out's of scouting and technical changes with a player, but with such a history of success at college's highest level matched with speed and consistent hard contact why do teams draft a player and then make large swing or stance adjustments immediately? I get trying to tap into some potential power or average or whatever but if a player has had consistent success and they're drafted very highly like Ray or Jungmann (and plenty of others) or traded for like Brett Phillips and immediately told to change, wouldn't that hurt their psyche? I think Ray could be a small adjustment away from sky high confidence and hard contact again but for all of these high profile prospects I always wonder what if a team hadn't tried to change everything about them and continue on their upward trajectory.

[Mass Haas]

Good stuff from Kyle here via BP Milwaukee -- DEVELOPING COREY RAY

[reillymcshane]

I wanted Groome, Puk, or Lewis over Ray.

I have to say that the 2016 draft has been pretty underwhelming (as far as players the Crew could have picked). A lot of the first rounders are pretty 'meh' looking thus far - including Ray. For the high school guys, you can expect that due to their age and experience level. But the college guys haven't even been that great (outside of Senzel, who we didn't have a chance to pick).

 

In retrospect, Puk would have been an interesting pick. But there were so many concerns about him coming out - it's understandable that teams soured on him.

 

I know that the Crew loved Delvin Perez, but that wasn't going to happen at #5 after the PED thing. Lewis had some poor pre-draft showings, and didn't particularly impress the club. There was some concern that his big college numbers were a result of a weaker competition (Southern Conference).

 

The club really liked Blake Rutherford as well - and if Ray had been off the board, he may have been our pick.

 

As for Groome, that wasn't going to happen due to his off the field concerns.

 

The guy that really intrigues me now is Taylor Trammel - the 35th pick in the draft (by the Reds). He looks like a 5-tool guy. But high school guys like him are so risky.

 

I've said this before - it wasn't a great draft class. But such is life. Hopefully, our guys come around down the road.

[jerichoholicninja]

Kind of just a philosophical question I guess because I don't pretend to know all the in's and out's of scouting and technical changes with a player, but with such a history of success at college's highest level matched with speed and consistent hard contact why do teams draft a player and then make large swing or stance adjustments immediately? I get trying to tap into some potential power or average or whatever but if a player has had consistent success and they're drafted very highly like Ray or Jungmann (and plenty of others) or traded for like Brett Phillips and immediately told to change, wouldn't that hurt their psyche? I think Ray could be a small adjustment away from sky high confidence and hard contact again but for all of these high profile prospects I always wonder what if a team hadn't tried to change everything about them and continue on their upward trajectory.

 

I've never understood this either. Unless a pitcher's mechanics are just totally awful and he's only been successful because he can throw it by high school kids, let them play and make changes when needed.

[narwhalattack]

From Fangraphs Prospect Chat today, with Eric Longenhagen:

 

Pablo

1:02 What caused Corey Ray's poor showing this year? What are you looking for from him in the AFL?

 

Eric A Longenhagen

1:03 I'm still not sure. He's very stationary at the plate, no stride. I'd like to see him more active in the box. This is an explosive guy, why not let him be explosive? He's been fine in CF here in my looks but reports from the season were mixed. His ball/strike recognition is good, the bat speed is fine, he's running fine. I still think he's going to be good. He is visibly frustrated, though.

 

I wonder who told him to change his approach. Did he make the change himself, or was it encouraged by the coaching staff?

[LouisEly]

I've said this before - it wasn't a great draft class. But such is life. Hopefully, our guys come around down the road.

That's so Brewers. The year they get the #2 overall pick ends up being perhaps the weakest draft class of the last 20-30 years. Weeks was a good pick - the 7th highest bWAR of that first round (#7 of 37 picks, with one of the players ahead of him being pick #37) and by far the highest bWAR of any of the top 6 picks.

 

Meanwhile, when the Cubs get the #2 overall pick, Kris Bryant is sitting there. Sigh.

[Mass Haas]

Corey Ray confident he’ll bounce back this season

By Dan Zielinski III, the3rdmanin.com

[Boomer5]

The Brewers think it's over or they wouldn't have given away 4 key prospects, $80M, and a high draft draft pick for the type of players Ray was supposed to be.

 

For an advanced college bat, 2018 should have been his ETA and the Brewers clearly gave up on him with their actions this offseason.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

The Brewers think it's over or they wouldn't have given away 4 key prospects, $80M, and a high draft draft pick for the type of players Ray was supposed to be.

 

For an advanced college bat, 2018 should have been his ETA and the Brewers clearly gave up on him with their actions this offseason.

 

I hope he can recoup enough value this year to make himself a trade chip.

[Lathund]

I don't think the moves made so far say anything about giving up on Ray. In 2016 you might have said 2018 was the ETA, but even if you believe in Corey Ray and think he's going to be a good MLB player it's pretty obvious at this point that the ETA isn't 2018. Nor do most prospects, even very good ones, arrive in the majors like Judge or Bellinger did; it often takes some time to adjust. So if you want to win in 2018 and 2019, you get the established players who you know (Well, as certain as you can be) will contribute in those years. If anything, the outfield being settled for a few years now gives Ray a chance to develop in peace, no need to rush things. He may bounce back, or he may not, either way the future of the franchise doesn't hinge on it.

 

FWIW I think we'll see a much better 2018 from Corey Ray. Enough to put him back to the pre-draft view of him and regain top prospect status? I doubt that, but speed on the bases being at least an average defender in CF means that being even an average hitter could make him a valuable player. Giving up on him at this point would be a very poor decision; he likely doesn't have much trade value at this point, so why not see how things develop? Won't impact any kind of roster crunch for a couple of seasons yet.

[pacopete4]

The Brewers think it's over or they wouldn't have given away 4 key prospects, $80M, and a high draft draft pick for the type of players Ray was supposed to be.

 

For an advanced college bat, 2018 should have been his ETA and the Brewers clearly gave up on him with their actions this offseason.

 

Disagree. I think the Brewers saw a great opportunity to add a great ballplayer in Yelich and did it. If Ray becomes a stud, they will either play him with Yelich or a guy like Yelich will be moved for other resources. I don't think you make these moves having one thing depending on the other. The Yelich deal, for me, was a no-brainer, for what they gave up.

[TJseven7]

Older than Grisham, and behind Grisham. Not high on him at all and hoping he's not a bust.

[sveumrules]

The Brewers think it's over or they wouldn't have given away 4 key prospects, $80M, and a high draft draft pick for the type of players Ray was supposed to be.

 

For an advanced college bat, 2018 should have been his ETA and the Brewers clearly gave up on him with their actions this offseason.

 

Ray was not an advanced college bat. He was a college bat & selected with a high pick, but he was always more of a tools guy than a production guy. I don't remeber the poster, but there was one who constantly mentioned how poor Ray's production was relative to other college OFs/high picks after he was selected.

[LouisEly]

I mentioned how poor his production was relative to his teammates.

[StearnsFTW]

Yeah, Ray was always a guy who was going to have to develop in the minors despite being a high pick college guy.

 

This is a make-or-break year for him. Need to see some improvement.

[Yolk]

I was disappointed in the pick at the time as he seemed like another 4th outfielder. Now fourth oufielder seems optimistic.

[Mass Haas]

Hope still shines for Corey Ray after disappointing year in Brewers system

David Haugh, Chicago Tribune

[Mass Haas]

Prospect Ray healthy, looking for results

After tough 2017 season, outfielder feels improved entering '18

Adam McCalvy, MLB.com

[wallus]

What are the reports of his defense in center?