Positive Feelings?

[rickh150]

I don't understand how artificially inflating attendance numbers would benefit the Brewers in any way.

 

If they were doing it as leverage in TV negotiations, that would be fraud, so no one would let them get away with that. MLB would have to know about it, and the Brewers' accountants and other outside vendors would have to be in on this, putting themselves in a position to face prison time right along with Attanasio and Schleisinger (or however you spell it).

 

Are you suggesting that they are committing fraud simply to get the fans to feel better about themselves for supporting a sports franchise?

 

How about if sponsors bought tickets that were never distributed?

[brwrsfan]

They can very easily track the number of tickets sold vs actual attendance - and they do. But all that matters is tickets sold.

 

They scan every ticket that comes in, that certainly gets monitored and tracked.

[OnTheBlack]

Literally every team in the league could have had more wins if they could use hindsight to base every decision on.

 

Some of us don't wait until the season is over to question decisions. I predicted the day it happened that letting Gennett go would come back and bite them, and that letting the Cubs fix their rotation coming out of the break by nabbing a guy the Brewers were interested in was a fatal mistake. I agree with the sentiment that when you miss by one game it's a major disappointment. We have no idea when things will fall into place and give the Brewers the kind of opportunity they had in 2017. Stearns made some small moves that helped but he hesitated on the big move they needed.

 

 

Wait....you wanted us to keep Gennett? I hadn't seen this take from you before....in every single thread for the last 200 days...

 

For what it's worth, keeping Gennett likely means that Aguilar is not on the opening day roster. Unlikely we keep a backup at 1st AND at 2nd who can't really play elsewhere in the field...so we would have lost out on a young guy like Aguilar in order to keep a guy who had done nothing to suggest he was anything more than a .265/.320 type hitter before the Reds MIF'ers BOTH had career years. Still....really fresh take on the whole Gennett situation here.

[dlk9s]

rickh wants to see the the Brewers' long-form attendance records.

[OnTheBlack]

Every team must count seats sold in attendance figures.

 

If someone buys a ticket and can't make the game the team can't be held responsible for every single empty seat in the stadium. If a company buys up 20 tickets for their employees and 18 want to go the team still sold 20 tickets.

 

It's impossible for a team to keep track of every single ticket sold for every single game with a person sitting in every single seat.

 

Makes sense to me.

Yea, every team in every pro sport does this.

 

Attendance is announced based on tickets sold, regardless of how many actually show up.

 

Given the Brewers are the smallest market in baseball, their attendance numbers for almost a decade now are pretty amazing and a credit to the fan base in the Milwaukee area.

 

Amazing in 2007 thru 2012ish...... not now.

 

Ticket sold does not equal an actual person off the street buying it, a ticket for actual person. The mainstream perception is that there must be many no shows (individuals/families with tickets bought in hand who decide not to come) up thru ten thousands people to explain the difference. Seems obviously false, in my opinion, with no real explanation on why tickets sold and actual attendance is so different. I would guess at attendance each game I go to before the four choices of attendance are revealed in the 8th inning. I usually guessed that Miller Park was in the 20,000 to 25,000 range, and the choices would be in the 30,000 to 35,000 range. Huge differences.

 

BP gas tickets also are free, but are they counting all the tickets BP gave out to customers or every last ticket BP got for the promotion, regardless of distribution? It probably is better business for the team (or sponsor) to buy a bunch of their own tickets at a $1 a pop, throw them to the curb, announce higher attendance numbers, give off a perception of a 30,000 plus avg game attendance, and take in the benefits of future sales/income. And of course the perception of higher attendance matters. People want to be where the action is, especially young adults with cash to burn. Sponsors will then pony up more $ for ads/ad space/signage when they believe a higher number of potential customer is there. Suites are sold better when the perception is that space is limited in the park.

All I'm saying is that the support of the team was not at 2.5 million or even 2 million fans in the ballpark. No one in the this thread argued against this point. I'm also saying that the amount of paid attendance versus in the park attendance had less to do with no shows. The gap in paid attendance vs actual attendance was way too large to offer as the only reason.

 

We had very solid support again this year, but 30,000 avg strong in paid attendance? No shows up in the five figures range in thrifty Wisconsin? All tickets sold at adverised pricing rates? Too many questions to not ask more questions. Inflated numbers can be expected everywhere. This year, especially, numbers seemed inflated to the point of questioning our intelligence.

 

You realize you are describing a crime, right? Lying about customers in order to defraud your sponsors. And you're doing this because of the few games you went to, you didn't believe the number on the screen?

 

I did find this line funny though...

 

Too many questions to not ask more questions.

 

I think we need a Warren Commission like report on this!

 

Seriously though, I have season tickets...missed a lot of games this year, but of the games I went to, attendance looked strong. I didn't do a head count, but it looked close enough for me to not accuse the Brewers of fraud. I could certainly be wrong though.

 

I also wasn't all that upset with the letter by the Brewers in which they thanked me for the support

[FVBrewerFan]

Rich, with all due respect, have you considered you may just be wrong with your attendance estimates?

 

Just because it "seems to you" there's only 20,000 fans doesn't make it so. Think about it. With 30,000 fans, you are looking at 10,000 empty seats. That's a lot. 25% will give you huge areas of the terrace empty.

 

Plus, there's lots of suites, clubs, standing areas, etc where fans are gathered. Just saying, wouldn't hurt to admit just maybe you're wrong?

[liveforoctober]

Rich, with all due respect, have you considered you may just be wrong with your attendance estimates?

 

Just because it "seems to you" there's only 20,000 fans doesn't make it so. Think about it. With 30,000 fans, you are looking at 10,000 empty seats. That's a lot. 25% will give you huge areas of the terrace empty.

 

Plus, there's lots of suites, clubs, standing areas, etc where fans are gathered. Just saying, wouldn't hurt to admit just maybe you're wrong?

 

Not only that .. but if 30,000 fans are in attendance and you are doing a quick glance around the stadium ... how many fans are currently walking around the ballpark/standing in a concession line/bathroom/left early, etc? Couple thousand?

 

Just seems a stretch to accuse the Brewers of fraud.

[trwi7]

Even if a company buys 10K worth of tickets and throw them in the trash, they were still bought. Why wouldn’t they figure into the attendance? Makes no sense.

 

Exactly. It's not like this is a Brewers specific thing either. Look at the Giants this year. Announced sell out after announced sell out with thousands of empty seats pretty much every game. They were just terrible so people decided not to bother going even though they had already bought the tickets. It's the same thing for every team in every league.

[homer]

There's "sell out" where all tickets are bought. And there's in-game attendance which is how many people show up.

 

Quite frankly, between the expensive craft beer and food and the new netting it will be a wonder anyone shows up at all. They can watch the game at home with no net obstructing their view whilest eating a $2.50 Jack's pizza and drinking their $5 six pack of Natty Light.

[adambr2]

There's "sell out" where all tickets are bought. And there's in-game attendance which is how many people show up.

 

Quite frankly, between the expensive craft beer and food and the new netting it will be a wonder anyone shows up at all. They can watch the game at home with no net obstructing their view whilest eating a $2.50 Jack's pizza and drinking their $5 six pack of Natty Light.

 

I think it was the 2004 or 2005 season that my semi-daily routine on the way home from work was to pick up a 4 pack of Sparks and a Little Ceasars pizza and down them at home while I watched the game. It was a rough time in my life.

[monty57]

I don't understand how artificially inflating attendance numbers would benefit the Brewers in any way.

 

If they were doing it as leverage in TV negotiations, that would be fraud, so no one would let them get away with that. MLB would have to know about it, and the Brewers' accountants and other outside vendors would have to be in on this, putting themselves in a position to face prison time right along with Attanasio and Schleisinger (or however you spell it).

 

Are you suggesting that they are committing fraud simply to get the fans to feel better about themselves for supporting a sports franchise?

 

How about if sponsors bought tickets that were never distributed?

 

Then the sponsor overestimated and wasted some money. The Brewers still received that money.

 

If you sponsor an event, you want as many eyes as possible seeing your ads, so you wouldn't purposely do something that would result in fewer people in the park. Plus, what you are alleging is that the Brewers are artificially inflating attendance figures, which would increase the cost of sponsorship. If you think sponsors are buying loads of tickets that they have no intention of distributing, I'd ask why on earth would the sponsors willfully go along with the Brewers in an illegal scam that would result in higher prices for themselves and fewer people actually seeing their ads?

 

Crimes do occur, but there would be such limited upside to doing this and such a high probability of them being caught that it seems highly unlikely that this is going on.

[pacopete4]

It's the Brewers job to sell tickets. It's NOT their job to hold the people's hand that they sell the tickets to get them to the ballpark. To be honest, I cannot believe this is really even a discussion.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It's the Brewers job to sell tickets. It's NOT their job to hold the people's hand that they sell the tickets to get them to the ballpark. To be honest, I cannot believe this is really even a discussion.

 

Agreed! This is the Positive Feelings thread, not the "go on and on about the legitimacy of the attendance number" thread.

[rcc]

It's the Brewers job to sell tickets. It's NOT their job to hold the people's hand that they sell the tickets to get them to the ballpark. To be honest, I cannot believe this is really even a discussion.

 

Agreed! This is the Positive Feelings thread, not the "go on and on about the legitimacy of the attendance number" thread.

 

Thank you.

[clancyphile]

Here are the reasons I have positive feelings about this season:

 

1. The Brewers saw two pitchers from the farm system, Brandon Woodruff and Brent Suter, show clear potential to be solid contributors in the starting rotation. This is key: At worst, they mean the Brewers don't spend $10-15 million/year on a Suppan, Wolf, Lohse, or Garza.

 

2. Hot young prospects shooting their way up, Corbin Burnes and Troy Stokes are two I am particularly excited about. The former is dominating in the stats even more than Suter did, and the latter showed he had power in addition to OBP skills, speed, and the abiloty to hit doubles.

 

3. The emergence of a "bench mob" lead by Hernan Perez and Jon Villar for the 2018 season.

 

4. A bullpen that is much more likely than not to hold a lead after a starter gives the Crew six good innings.

 

5. Craig's Crushers on offense.

[monty57]

1. The Brewers saw two pitchers from the farm system, Brandon Woodruff and Brent Suter, show clear potential to be solid contributors in the starting rotation. This is key: At worst, they mean the Brewers don't spend $10-15 million/year on a Suppan, Wolf, Lohse, or Garza.

 

This is a really key point. You need stars to win, but you still need 25 men on the roster. When you can fill your "role player" positions (back-of-the-rotation starters, bullpen, bench, etc.) with MLB-caliber talent playing for league minimum, that leaves you with more payroll to afford your stars. When you give eight figure deals to second-tier free agents, it's easy to max out your payroll with "B" or "C" level talent, and you end up with big holes you can't afford to fill.

 

We have some star caliber players in the minors, but I'm also excited that we have a lot of players who should be able to contribute to the MLB team in a lesser manner. These guys should allow for us to always have a lot of guys playing for league minimum, keeping the payroll lower so we can afford some higher-priced guys, whether that be free agent signings or extensions to our own star players.

 

Stearns looks to be building the franchise like the Astros, where we will hopefully have excess talent in the minors. Some of this will be traded for MLB help, while the rest will keep a steady stream of pre-arby talent making its way to the MLB roster. Some of these guys will be stars, and others will be role players, but they'll all help the team.

[adambr2]

It's the Brewers job to sell tickets. It's NOT their job to hold the people's hand that they sell the tickets to get them to the ballpark. To be honest, I cannot believe this is really even a discussion.

 

Agreed! This is the Positive Feelings thread, not the "go on and on about the legitimacy of the attendance number" thread.

 

Thank you.

 

I do have to point out here that it's actually 'Positive Feelings? and was started by that very poster inferring that he should in fact not actually have positive feelings.

[FVBrewerFan]

Correct. Do not confuse this thread with the "optimism" thread. Despite the name of this thread, OP has no positive feelings. Brewers are bad, they sell too many tickets to fans who don't go to games, or they lie. Or something.

[rickh150]

Correct. Do not confuse this thread with the "optimism" thread. Despite the name of this thread, OP has no positive feelings. Brewers are bad, they sell too many tickets to fans who don't go to games, or they lie. Or something.

 

Something like that..... Brewers blew it again, Brewers fans had a down year in energy and attendance, simple observation shows paid attendance was quite different from actual attendance (dare I say apparently) and no shows can't bridge the gap imo, and our best, most loyal fans are looking forward to getting their Cubs tickets for 2018!

I'll be excited again in 2018, a lot to like about the turnaround from 2016 to 2017 plus, just bummed. So close to playoffs. Bought (refunded) tickets to Game 4 of NLDS. Yankees proving that wild card teams can do damage in the playoffs.... would have been fun to get in.