International Soccer Thread...

[FVBrewerFan]

Paul, do you think kids have any concept of what NBA players make vs MLS? They have no clue, they can't differentiate between a million and $50 million. Has absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides, the best soccer players in the world make more than anyone. It's as simple as your first point, cultural. Games aren't on TV, it's just not on the radar for kids.

 

Back to the WC, some great matches so far. Crazy goal that ref helped Senegal score against Polska.

[paul253]

Paul, do you think kids have any concept of what NBA players make vs MLS

 

Not really young ones maybe not but the teenagers? Absolutely. I bet if you surveyed teenagers in the inner city and asked who, on average, makes money, an NBA player or an MLS player I’d bet 90% of them would say NBA.

 

. Has absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides, the best soccer players in the world make more than anyone

 

And how many of them even know who the best players in the world are? I’m an educated sport lover who spends half his day looking at scores and browsing the internet and even I can’t name more than 10 professional soccer players in the world. Professional soccer has absolutely no draw to inner city kids.

[FVBrewerFan]

Paul, do you think kids have any concept of what NBA players make vs MLS

 

Not really young ones maybe not but the teenagers? Absolutely. I bet if you surveyed teenagers in the inner city and asked who, on average, makes money, an NBA player or an MLS player I’d bet 90% of them would say NBA.

 

. Has absolutely nothing to do with it. Besides, the best soccer players in the world make more than anyone

 

And how many of them even know who the best players in the world are? I’m an educated sport lover who spends half his day looking at scores and browsing the internet and even I can’t name more than 10 professional soccer players in the world. Professional soccer has absolutely no draw to inner city kids.

 

Agreed. But not because of money, and not limited to inner city kids. In a lot of suburban areas even sports like volleyball and lacrosse are more popular. Not much money in those sports.

 

If you don't grow up in a soccer family, very tough to get interested. Similar to baseball in that regard.

[Baldkin]

The reason why USA can’t compete with the other nations in offer is because our best athletes don’t play soccer....or they don’t continue it I should say. They play basketball.

 

Well, you're wrong.

 

If the best athletes play basketball, then how come the US has the best baseball teams? The best track and field program? The best swimmers? Consistently wins the most medals in the Olympics? The US doesn't win at soccer because black kids don't play soccer? That's a bit racist.

 

Inner city kids don't play soccer because it's EXPENSIVE. There is no field space in the inner cities, but there are basketball courts.

 

There is an absolutely huge amount of poor kids who love soccer and play it religiously who simply aren't given the opportunity to succeed at the highest levels. I'm not sitting here just making up reasons. I follow soccer, I played youth soccer at the highest levels when I was 10-14 (I'm almost 40 now), and it was a joke. The coaching wasn't there, there was a huge push to win rather than improve, to drill rather than be creative which resulted in a lack of growth and a lack of skill team-wide. This is still the case throughout the US.

 

http://theconversation.com/until-youth-soccer-is-fixed-us-mens-national-team-is-destined-to-fail-85585

 

For the past six years I have been researching and writing about the commercialized youth sports industry, including a youth soccer system that excludes low-income and nonsuburban families from participating at the same rate as higher-income families.

 

Many leave for financial reasons. Kids interested in playing soccer must increasingly pay for apparel, equipment, team fees, coaches, trainers, tournament travel and field space. It’s not unusual for families to spend over $10,000 per child per year to play organized youth soccer.

 

But this isn’t the only place where talent is identified. There’s a robust network of recruiters who still go to cramped high school gyms and neighborhood playgrounds teeming with skilled players. Low-income boys are 50 percent more likely to participate in basketball than in soccer, with participation rates identical between blacks and Latinos (despite cultural stereotypes that assume Latinos are more likely to play soccer).

 

There might be a reason for this: There are low-cost options for playing basketball (and being noticed), unlike in soccer. The U.S. men’s national basketball team does not systematically exclude an enormous swath of the population merely because it is poor. A bigger talent pool equals better teams.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/jun/01/us-soccer-diversity-problem-world-football

 

And yet a quarter of a century into soccer’s American boom, that hasn’t happened. Coaches, organizers and advocates say interest is there, especially among immigrants from Mexico and Central and South America, where devotion to soccer runs generations in families. But finding those kids is hard. Money has only hardened the divide between rich and poor, leaving the game to thrive in wealthy communities, where the cost of organized soccer has become outrageous, pricing out those in lower income neighborhoods.

 

They compared the background of each US men’s national team member from 1993 to 2013 to that of every NBA all star and NFL pro bowler over the same period, using socio-economic data from their hometown zip codes. They found the soccer players came from communities that had higher incomes, education and employment rankings, and were whiter than the US average, while the basketball and football players came from places that ranked lower than average on those same indicators.

 

I could go on and on and on. It's not that kid's aren't playing, it's that the system is stacked against those who don't have money.

[FVBrewerFan]

They found the soccer players came from communities that had higher incomes, education and employment rankings, and were whiter than the US average, while the basketball and football players came from places that ranked lower than average on those same indicators.

 

You proved yourself wrong without realizing it. Football is a more expensive sport than soccer, yet inner city kids are playing it. Why? Because they want to play basketball and football, not soccer.

 

If they wanted to play soccer, there would soccer fields in all the parks. Remember when baseball fields were everywhere? Not anymore, and not just in the inner-city. (At least in WI.)

[Baldkin]

They found the soccer players came from communities that had higher incomes, education and employment rankings, and were whiter than the US average, while the basketball and football players came from places that ranked lower than average on those same indicators.

 

You proved yourself wrong without realizing it. Football is a more expensive sport than soccer, yet inner city kids are playing it. Why? Because they want to play basketball and football, not soccer.

 

If they wanted to play soccer, there would soccer fields in all the parks. Remember when baseball fields were everywhere? Not anymore, and not just in the inner-city. (At least in WI.)

 

Where do the best football players come from? Their local high school teams. Fees are rarely over $200, and most of the additional budget comes from the $5 tickets sold on Friday nights, sponsorships and donations.

 

Where do the best soccer players come from? Traveling teams that cost thousands of dollars to play on every season.

[FVBrewerFan]

Where do the best soccer players come from? Traveling teams that cost thousands of dollars to play on every season.

 

You're talking about the higher levels. Inner city kids (and most suburban and rural kinds for that matter) have no interest in playing at the U7, U8, etc. level. It doesn't matter how much the traveling teams costs (which could subsidize a player if they're good enough anyhow.) If they're not playing when they're young, they certainly won't be playing on a traveling team later, even it was free. Cost has nothing to do with kids not wanting to play soccer.

[Baldkin]

Where do the best soccer players come from? Traveling teams that cost thousands of dollars to play on every season.

 

You're talking about the higher levels. Inner city kids (and most suburban and rural kinds for that matter) have no interest in playing at the U7, U8, etc. level. It doesn't matter how much the traveling teams costs (which could subsidize a player if they're good enough anyhow.) If they're not playing when they're young, they certainly won't be playing on a traveling team later, even it was free. Cost has nothing to do with kids not wanting to play soccer.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/9469252/hidden-demographics-youth-sports-espn-magazine

 

More kids play U7 and U8 Soccer than they do Basketball.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not sure I follow. This article specifically says 40% of kids play basketball, 20% soccer. Plus, you've been talking about inner-city kids. Inner-city kids do not play more soccer than basketball.

 

Your argument seems to be shifting. You've been saying inner-city kids can't afford to play soccer, now you're saying they play soccer more than basketball?

[Baldkin]

Not sure I follow. This article specifically says 40% of kids play basketball, 20% soccer. Plus, you've been talking about inner-city kids. Inner-city kids do not play more soccer than basketball.

 

Your argument seems to be shifting. You've been saying inner-city kids can't afford to play soccer, now you're saying they play soccer more than basketball?

 

I never once said anything about inner city kids. I said POOR kids cannot afford to play high level soccer, and that is why our national team is struggling. The pay to play structure and focus on winning above all else at youth levels has broken the pipeline of talent.

 

You brought up U8 kids. There is a graph in that article that shows more kids play U8 soccer than basketball.

 

http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=%2Fmagazine%2Fipad%2Fissues%2FYouthWebGraphic12.jpg&w=1140&cquality=40

[FVBrewerFan]

You brought up U8 kids. There is a graph in that article that shows more kids play U8 soccer than basketball.

 

Not even close, way more kids play basketball. Ultra-organized teams/leagues have nothing to do with it. Kids that age are playing basketball on the playground, each other's house, etc. None of this is even a debate really.

 

I said POOR kids cannot afford to play high level soccer, and that is why our national team is struggling.

 

The problem isn't financial. The best athletes choose other sports. If soccer was uber-popular, the best athletes would play it and USA would be dominant.

[paul253]

Well, you're wrong.

 

If the best athletes play basketball, then how come the US has the best baseball teams? The best track and field program? The best swimmers? Consistently wins the most medals in the Olympics? The US doesn't win at soccer because black kids don't play soccer? That's a bit racist

 

I had to read this a few times to make sure you weren’t joking. It’s “racist” to say our best athletes play football and basketball. Um yeah.....this isn’t the political board so I’ll leave that one alone.

 

Innner city kids don't play soccer because it's EXPENSIVE.

 

And yet the poorest of the poor in countries like Mexico, Nigeria, Ghana....well pretty much any country in Europe, South America and Africa.....manage to afford to play. Explain that. What equipment do you need to play soccer? You need goal, which is usually provided by the city. And you need a ball. Pretty much the same expense as basketball.

 

There is no field space in the inner cities, but there are basketball courts

 

Soccer fields are almost exactly the same size as football fields and yet tons of the best football players in the country come from low income and poor neighborhoods. Use common sense before you make these arguments.

 

The coaching wasn't there, there was a huge push to win rather than improve, to drill rather than be creative which resulted in a lack of growth and a lack of skill team-wide. This is still the case throughout the US.

 

And this is different than every other major organized sport how? I’ve been around a lot of little league baseball and a lot of youth basketball. Seems to me that winning sure beats out helping kids improve there too

 

There might be a reason for this: There are low-cost options for playing basketball (and being noticed), unlike in soccer. The U.S. men’s national basketball team does not systematically exclude an enormous swath of the population merely because it is poor. A bigger talent pool equals better teams

 

Why do you think there is a better chance to be noticed in basketball than in soccer? Because Basketball is infinitely more popular and is a much bigger deal for colleges, professionals, and even high schools so those institutions have more incentive to go out and find the best players. Colleges make tons of money off of basketball. And I’m guessing almost all of them lose money off of soccer. So common sense dictates it would make more sense to advocate resources to going out and finding the best basketball players vs the best soccer players. It has nothing to do with how much it costs to play soccer.

 

I could go on and on and on. It's not that kid's aren't playing, it's that the system is stacked against those who don't have money

 

With all due respect you have to be blind if you actually believe this. Soccer is far and away the least popular of the five major sports in America. Even as an avid, life long sports fan I cannot name five MLS players. I’m not even exaggerating. The other sports, particularly football and basketball are so much more popular, as are the individual athletes. You cannot honestly believe that if soccer club teams didn’t cost as much money that the top athletes in America would all of a sudden switch over to soccer.

 

Where do the best football players come from? Their local high school teams

 

It’s a little more complicated than that. In order for many of these football players to get noticed they have to travel to all different types of camps and pay their own way for unofficial visits. Plus, to my knowledge traveling football teams aren’t really a thing so High School is pretty much the only chance for scouts to see the players in action.

 

Additionally, where are all the best baseball players noticed? Apparently they have the same type of expensive traveling teams that soccer has. But even more poor kids continue on in baseball than they do in soccer.

 

I never once said anything about inner city kids

 

Yeah....you did: “ inner city kids don't play soccer because it's EXPENSIVE. There is no field space in the inner cities, but there are basketball courts”

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

Umm....the World Cup is amazing. So much drama. Germany looks beat and out and then steals a goal on an excellent free kick at the very death.

 

I know you can't sell this sport to the average fan without the US being good, but this is NCAA Tournament on steroids every 4 years. Love the storylines and emotion.

 

Cannot wait to hear what the Men in Blazers say in the next pod. Those guys just kill it every time.

[homer]

Wow that German goal was amazing.

 

I do think the current US squad is poised for some big things going forward. Pulisic is probably going to end up as the greatest American player of all time once it's all said and done.

[Jimbo]

Germany. Wow.

[stoutdude04]

Umm....the World Cup is amazing. So much drama. Germany looks beat and out and then steals a goal on an excellent free kick at the very death.

 

I know you can't sell this sport to the average fan without the US being good, but this is NCAA Tournament on steroids every 4 years. Love the storylines and emotion.

 

Cannot wait to hear what the Men in Blazers say in the next pod. Those guys just kill it every time.

 

Average fan, true. But the US bought the most world cup tickets outside of Russia this year. Pretty incredible I think.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

That is incredible. It does seem like there is a thriving soccer subculture, at least. As I go to teach, I see more soccer jerseys than ever, so interest is there!

 

Excited for Group H games tomorrow. I am fascinated by the Poland, Japan, Senegal, Colombia grouping.

[trwi7]

Umm....the World Cup is amazing. So much drama. Germany looks beat and out and then steals a goal on an excellent free kick at the very death.

 

I know you can't sell this sport to the average fan without the US being good, but this is NCAA Tournament on steroids every 4 years. Love the storylines and emotion.

 

Cannot wait to hear what the Men in Blazers say in the next pod. Those guys just kill it every time.

 

Average fan, true. But the US bought the most world cup tickets outside of Russia this year. Pretty incredible I think.

 

We're the third largest country in the world with what should be one of the easiest roads to qualification. I don't think it's any surprise that we bought the most outside of Russia.

[stoutdude04]

Umm....the World Cup is amazing. So much drama. Germany looks beat and out and then steals a goal on an excellent free kick at the very death.

 

I know you can't sell this sport to the average fan without the US being good, but this is NCAA Tournament on steroids every 4 years. Love the storylines and emotion.

 

Cannot wait to hear what the Men in Blazers say in the next pod. Those guys just kill it every time.

 

Average fan, true. But the US bought the most world cup tickets outside of Russia this year. Pretty incredible I think.

 

We're the third largest country in the world with what should be one of the easiest roads to qualification. I don't think it's any surprise that we bought the most outside of Russia.

 

I agree. I was just pointing out that it did sell well even though the US wasn't in it. I have no idea how many of those tickets were sold before the US choked.

[FVBrewerFan]

Pretty fun watching Argentina self destruct.

[paul253]

Down goes Germany. Who’d have thought.

 

I’m probably rooting for England. And man, looking at the bracket stack up it sure looks like it would behoove them to lose to Belgium and take second in their group. It would get them away from a potential matchup with Brazil in the quarterfinals.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

England Belgium is going to be ugly. Both teams incentivized to lose and foul the crap out of each other. They would be better off flipping a coin than actually playing.

[Jimbo]

Whomever could have predicted the outcomes of this morning's matches needs to go out and buy lottery tickets. Loved the high drama considering even going into stoppage time a German goal would changed the fate of so many.

[FVBrewerFan]

Belgium down 2-0 and looking every bit as bad as that, then turns it on and scores 3 goals including one in the last minute of stoppage time. WOW. Not sure if Japan's coach knows the rules, but someone probably should have told him they ARE allowed subs.

 

The two shoot-outs on Sunday were high drama too.

[Jimbo]

Croatia may have had the better "team" and was more fun to watch, but France had the three big guns including the $20-million nineteen year old. The most entertaining and memorable final I've probably seen.