Keon Broxton to SF...who comes back?

[MrTPlush]

I'm really hoping Braun is the odd man out some how, some way... Trading Domingo at his age and control better bring in a MONSTER return or I wouldn't even consider it. If he has another year like this one, the sky is the limit with his value, especially to an American league team.

 

Trading Santana when we really don't know what we have in Brinson yet is a major risk imo. We know what we have in Santana, and I think he only gets better offensively.

 

Even if they went with Aguilar full time at 1B with a Thames/Perez platoon in RF, is that a much weaker lineup than with Santana and Thames? I don't think so.

 

Oh my...please no. Hernan Perez and Eric Thames are both terrible in the OF and not even better than Santana defensively. You are basically comparing the offense of Aguilar to Santana's. Aguilar full time would be lucky to be average.

 

How can one even flirt with trading Santana? We literally had two true impact bats in our lineup and you want to trade one of them? We need more above average bats not less! Even if you use Santana to help get Stroman, I mean great, but good luck ever scoring runs. We struggled this year because we had no OBP type guys. Now we trade our best bat?

 

Trading Santana is one of the worst ideas even being floated around. It doesn't even matter what the return is honestly. We cannot be getting rid of one of the only true hitters we have.

[clancyphile]

I'm really hoping Braun is the odd man out some how, some way... Trading Domingo at his age and control better bring in a MONSTER return or I wouldn't even consider it. If he has another year like this one, the sky is the limit with his value, especially to an American league team.

 

Trading Santana when we really don't know what we have in Brinson yet is a major risk imo. We know what we have in Santana, and I think he only gets better offensively.

 

Even if they went with Aguilar full time at 1B with a Thames/Perez platoon in RF, is that a much weaker lineup than with Santana and Thames? I don't think so.

 

Oh my...please no. Hernan Perez and Eric Thames are both terrible in the OF and not even better than Santana defensively. You are basically comparing the offense of Aguilar to Santana's. Aguilar full time would be lucky to be average.

 

How can one even flirt with trading Santana? We literally had two true impact bats in our lineup and you want to trade one of them? We need more above average bats not less! Even if you use Santana to help get Stroman, I mean great, but good luck ever scoring runs. We struggled this year because we had no OBP type guys. Now we trade our best bat?

 

Trading Santana is one of the worst ideas even being floated around. It doesn't even matter what the return is honestly. We cannot be getting rid of one of the only true hitters we have.

 

Troy Stokes looks to me to be an OBP guy with power, and his defense is better. Stokes had 63 BB in 579 PAs, he posted a .477 SLG on a .251 BA, and and OBP of .341 between Carolina and Biloxi. He's mostly played left, but some experience in center, and he played CF through high school. Guess he got bumped for Harrison or others in the Brewers' system, but he could handle right.

 

Maybe Stokes needs time in Colorado Springs, but why not give him a look in spring training? I think he not only adds a lot of what Santana does with the bat, he also provides good speed and OBP skills.

 

EDIT: For the right deal, Santana could be moved. Stokes has produced, and the power he developed this season could make dealing Santana easier.

[adambr2]

 

How can one even flirt with trading Santana? We literally had two true impact bats in our lineup and you want to trade one of them? We need more above average bats not less! Even if you use Santana to help get Stroman, I mean great, but good luck ever scoring runs. We struggled this year because we had no OBP type guys. Now we trade our best bat?

 

Trading Santana is one of the worst ideas even being floated around. It doesn't even matter what the return is honestly. We cannot be getting rid of one of the only true hitters we have.

 

Sorry, I totally disagree. It doesn't matter what the return is? So if the Rays came offering Archer for Santana straight up you'd just flat out turn it down? What if we did that and then signed JD Martinez? Wouldn't you agree we'd be improved overall?

 

IMO a good GM needs to consider all possibilities and remain open-minded to what helps long-term, and not worry about how one move might hurt in a vacuum. There's a lot of potential off-season moves coming, we'll have a full year of Brett Phillips and it's also important to remember we were a very good offense in the first half before for whatever reason things went downhill.

 

I'm not even necessarily saying we SHOULD trade Santana, just that we should be open to it and everything else if the return is right. IMO taking him off the table just because he was one of our best hitters is too simplistic of an approach.

[clancyphile]

Sorry, I totally disagree. It doesn't matter what the return is? So if the Rays came offering Archer for Santana straight up you'd just flat out turn it down? What if we did that and then signed JD Martinez? Wouldn't you agree we'd be improved overall?

 

IMO a good GM needs to consider all possibilities and remain open-minded to what helps long-term, and not worry about how one move might hurt in a vacuum. There's a lot of potential off-season moves coming, we'll have a full year of Brett Phillips and it's also important to remember we were a very good offense in the first half before for whatever reason things went downhill.

 

I'm not even necessarily saying we SHOULD trade Santana, just that we should be open to it and everything else if the return is right. IMO taking him off the table just because he was one of our best hitters is too simplistic of an approach.

 

I agree.

 

That said, much depends on what is available. Santana is good, but to get a TOR guy with control... I'd make the move, and roll the dice with prospects.

 

We have Phillips, Brinson, Stokes, Harrison and Michael Reed in AA/AAA in 2018. Arguably, Brinson and Phillips are MLB ready in 2018. Reed could be a huge asset in AAA, alongside Stokes. Stokes had a huge breakout year. This guy's a legit offensive threat. The OBP and doubles were always there, speed was always there... now, he's adding homers. One of these guys could stick. Maybe Broxton rebounds.

[brewmann04]

what do you think we can get back in return.

[TURBO]

Sorry, I totally disagree. It doesn't matter what the return is? So if the Rays came offering Archer for Santana straight up you'd just flat out turn it down? What if we did that and then signed JD Martinez? Wouldn't you agree we'd be improved overall?

 

IMO a good GM needs to consider all possibilities and remain open-minded to what helps long-term, and not worry about how one move might hurt in a vacuum. There's a lot of potential off-season moves coming, we'll have a full year of Brett Phillips and it's also important to remember we were a very good offense in the first half before for whatever reason things went downhill.

 

I'm not even necessarily saying we SHOULD trade Santana, just that we should be open to it and everything else if the return is right. IMO taking him off the table just because he was one of our best hitters is too simplistic of an approach.

 

I agree.

 

That said, much depends on what is available. Santana is good, but to get a TOR guy with control... I'd make the move, and roll the dice with prospects.

 

We have Phillips, Brinson, Stokes, Harrison and Michael Reed in AA/AAA in 2018. Arguably, Brinson and Phillips are MLB ready in 2018. Reed could be a huge asset in AAA, alongside Stokes. Stokes had a huge breakout year. This guy's a legit offensive threat. The OBP and doubles were always there, speed was always there... now, he's adding homers. One of these guys could stick. Maybe Broxton rebounds.

 

Is Stokes size an issue, the dude is tiny...Says he's 5'8", but I've stood next to him, he doesn't look that tall. lol The Altuve of the outfield?

[nate82]

Another possible landing spot for Broxton could be the Mariners. A Vogelbach for Broxton trade would be close but I think the Brewers might have to throw in another player to complete this deal.

[pacopete4]

Everything I’ve read about Vogelbach says he’s a terrible athlete that is overweight and won’t even make it as a 1B.

[reillymcshane]

Everything I’ve read about Vogelbach says he’s a terrible athlete that is overweight and won’t even make it as a 1B.

Agree. Vogelbach would be a terrible fit for Milwaukee. Bad defense, one of the slowest runners in the game. And his bat isn't that good. He's what the DH was created for - and even then, there's questions of whether he will hit enough.

[OnTheBlack]

The Giants aren't rebuilding, they've said so. Even Bochy said he'll be back because he wouldn't stick around if they were. And for them to trade Panik for Broxton just fills one hole while creating another one.

 

 

They also said that they weren't "afraid" to trade a mainstay like Belt or Panik for an OF bat. The "they" in this instance being their CEO and one of their owners, so not Bochy or Sabean, but still. Don't know what they have at the MIF spots, but I could see them moving Panik and plugging in some unknown 2nd basemen in favor of upgrading the OF.

 

It's always kinda a crap shoot as to what the Giants are gonna do though.

[Warning Track Power]

Depending on Will Smith's health I think a Smith and a prospect from the low minors is what you can reasonably expect for Broxton. The free agent market is flooded with OF's which is going to hurt any trade value an OF will have.

 

I think a Will Smith and Kelvin Beltre / Miguel Gomez is a fair trade for Broxton. Smith won't be ready until after spring training so you are looking at a possible return around May/June or later. I don't see much of anything else that the Brewers could realistically expect in return for Broxton and I don't like the Giants farm system all that much. To me the Giants have the worst farm system in all of MLB right now.

I couldn't agree more with the idea of a Broxton-Will Smith deal. The Giants seem to be of the mindset that they do not need a full rebuild and acquiring a starting caliber CF in that cavern of an OF would be worth a reliever coming off an ACL tear.

 

You can win with a top 3 of Bumgarner, Cueto and the Shark. What you can't win with is an OF composed of Jarrett Parker, Gorkys Hernandez, and an aging Hunter Pence and Denard Span. I like the move for both teams.

[monty57]

what do you think we can get back in return.

 

Broxton is interesting. In only 414 AB, he was a 20/20 guy who plays a premium defensive position, and he has tons of potential. But, he strikes out in about 1/3 of his plate appearances and has tremendous hot & cold streaks.

 

I think he needs to be shopped around. Some teams wouldn't touch him, while others would salivate over his potential. If Stearns can find one GM who thinks he could be a star we could get a decent return. I just don't know if that GM will be out there looking for a CF this offseason.

[adambr2]

what do you think we can get back in return.

 

Broxton is interesting. In only 414 AB, he was a 20/20 guy who plays a premium defensive position, and he has tons of potential. But, he strikes out in about 1/3 of his plate appearances and has tremendous hot & cold streaks.

 

I think he needs to be shopped around. Some teams wouldn't touch him, while others would salivate over his potential. If Stearns can find one GM who thinks he could be a star we could get a decent return. I just don't know if that GM will be out there looking for a CF this offseason.

 

I can agree with this. I think it's also possible to sell that Broxton's defensive blunders in 2017 were more of an aberration. It's tough to peg his value. 20/20 is a nice selling point that demonstrates both power and speed tools, but I think most GMs these days are a little bit too smart to be swayed by arbitrary benchmarks.

 

You're not going to be able to ask for the world, but I wouldn't just give him away especially with 5 years of control. If I had to peg it, I think something along the lines of two prospects -- headlined by a top 12-15 organizational prospect, along with a reliever prospect like Barnes would have been a few years ago, seems about right to me.

 

I'd still be opening to moving Brinson instead for a much higher return if the right deal came along this off-season, and move forward with Phillips and Keon.

[pacopete4]

My only beef with keeping Keon is will his K rate ever improve enough where he's not a black hole if he's not in one of his crazy hot streaks? The Keon's of our team really do make it hard on our lineup. It would be great to move away from this type of player if we could. If we believe he can, I'm all for moving Brinson. I have said in other posts that I'm just not a believer that this guy will stay healthy so if we can get a huge return for him, let's do it.

[JohnBriggs12]

Put me down in the Santana could definitely be traded this offseason, but only for elite starting pitching. If two of Braun, Brinson, Broxton, Phillips are terrible or hurt, that would just mean more time for Perez and Thames (and maybe Villar) in the outfield and picking up an OF at the deadline if we are in it.

 

I know it would hurt our offense, but it would also be nice to be able to get to flies that are outside of a jog radius from where the OF stands.

 

The answer is to sign Hosmer or Duda to play 1B and move Thames to RF. That would make up for the bulk of lost offense.

[adambr2]

I think Thames as a full time RF would probably make Santana look like a gold glover.

[bill hAll Star]

If the Brewers can make it work (Braun and/or Santana moving to 1B) and keep him, they can make Broxton very useful, a la Kike Hernandez.

 

.251/.364/.829. Those are his splits against lefties.

 

The issue is the logjam at CF. I'm sure all can and will play a corner spot, but given that you want Brinson to be more of an everyday player, you are now moving Broxton over a lot.

 

Against lefties, if you could have Brinson, Broxton, Santana, and Braun all in the lineup, the Brewers will absolutely crush it. That lineup will win a lot of games.

 

Against righties, Phillips, Thames, Brinson/Santana, Braun/Santana is still good.

 

They can still do pretty well with platoons without Broxton, but it does make some sense to just keep him as a cheap, useful player.

 

I think most teams will value Broxton in trades as that. A lot of GMs might be looking to give him the Austin Jackson Cleveland role, Kike Hernandez, Chris Young, etc. Not an incredible amount of value, but most GMs will give him some value with those platoon splits.

[reillymcshane]

Put me down in the Santana could definitely be traded this offseason, but only for elite starting pitching. If two of Braun, Brinson, Broxton, Phillips are terrible or hurt, that would just mean more time for Perez and Thames (and maybe Villar) in the outfield and picking up an OF at the deadline if we are in it.

 

I know it would hurt our offense, but it would also be nice to be able to get to flies that are outside of a jog radius from where the OF stands.

 

The answer is to sign Hosmer or Duda to play 1B and move Thames to RF. That would make up for the bulk of lost offense.

Duda needs a platoon partner (hit .188 against them last year) is not a very good defensive player, he doesn't run well, at 32 is on the downside of his career, and has had quite a few injuries over the last couple of years, including a back injury. His ability to hit 30 HR and takes some walks is great, but when he hits .217 and .229 like he has the past two years, that really sucks the wind out of his value.

 

6'4" and 250+ pound guys rarely age well. The guy has had injuries, his batting average has dropped. He's begging to play for Boston or Texas or someone like that - where he can DH and play some 1B.

 

Plus, Thames shouldn't be in the OF. He's a terrible outfielder.

[TURBO]

Against lefties, if you could have Brinson, Broxton, Santana, and Braun all in the lineup, the Brewers will absolutely crush it. That lineup will win a lot of games.

 

 

Assuming of course, that Brinson is the hitter we all hope he is...

[bill hAll Star]

Against lefties, if you could have Brinson, Broxton, Santana, and Braun all in the lineup, the Brewers will absolutely crush it. That lineup will win a lot of games.

 

 

Assuming of course, that Brinson is the hitter we all hope he is...

 

Even if he's not, you'd have to think he'll still at least have decent splits against lefties. True, though, we are still waiting on returns from him in the majors.

[monty57]

Against lefties, if you could have Brinson, Broxton, Santana, and Braun all in the lineup, the Brewers will absolutely crush it. That lineup will win a lot of games.

 

 

Assuming of course, that Brinson is the hitter we all hope he is...

 

That can be said of just about any player in the game. There are very few sure things. At some point, you just have to take the chance on a guy who is expected to be a very good baseball player. The "problem," which is a good problem to have, is that we have a lot of MLB ready outfielders. Stearns just has to decide the best move for the franchise from a lot of possible options. It will likely involve trading someone.

[reillymcshane]

Against lefties, if you could have Brinson, Broxton, Santana, and Braun all in the lineup, the Brewers will absolutely crush it. That lineup will win a lot of games.

 

 

Assuming of course, that Brinson is the hitter we all hope he is...

 

That can be said of just about any player in the game. There are very few sure things. At some point, you just have to take the chance on a guy who is expected to be a very good baseball player. The "problem," which is a good problem to have, is that we have a lot of MLB ready outfielders. Stearns just has to decide the best move for the franchise from a lot of possible options. It will likely involve trading someone.

Yeah, this is so true.

 

Sign Eric Hosmer for $150M over six years 'assuming' he continues to hit like he did in 2017. Or sign Lucas Duda 'assuming' he hits 30 HR again and NOT .220 (or whatever he hit last year).

 

Of course, major league production is going to provide a much better barometer of future production than minor league numbers - but like you said, at some point you have to take a risk with young guys. I've said this before - the Brewers are ALWAYS going to have to take this risk. They are always going to have to live through some growing pains of talented young players. It is the nature of our market. We need as much low cost production as possible due to limited payroll.

 

By nature, human beings are risk adverse. We are more afraid of lose than gain. Baseball management isn't immune to this affect. They will often take a known quantity - even if that players isn't that good - over a 'risky' player who may offer far more upside (but more downside).

[JosephC]

I'm still trying to figure out where all of these major league ready outfielders are?

 

1 - Braun, 2 - Santana, 3 - Broxton, 4 - Phillips, 5 - Brinson

 

Who else?

 

Looks like there are 5 MLB ready outfielders and since most teams carry 5 outfielders I would say the Brewers have just the right number.

 

Considering Braun's injury problems and the idea that between Broxton, Phillips, Brinson...one of them is likely not to have a good MLB year next year...I would think there would be enough outfield at-bats to go to the players that are playing well. I like the idea of keeping all five. Braun and Santana are penciled in for starting spots, and playing time goes to the centerfielder who earns it in spring training. About the only negative (and I think it's a minor point), is that if Phillips wins the starting spot then both backup outfielders are right-handed bats. But if Broxton or Brinson wins the spot, then one bench outfielder swings left-handed and the other swings right-handed, and both could play any of the outfield spots. Real good situation to be in. I don't understand why there would be a need to trade any of them.

 

With the way things go it's a darn near lock that is one is traded, then Braun will get hurt right away and one of the remaining three completely bombs which means they would only have two outfielders that can play and then Brewer fans will get to see Hernan Perez rack up over 400 plate appearances again next year.

[trwi7]

I'm still trying to figure out where all of these major league ready outfielders are?

 

1 - Braun, 2 - Santana, 3 - Broxton, 4 - Phillips, 5 - Brinson

 

Who else?

 

Looks like there are 5 MLB ready outfielders and since most teams carry 5 outfielders I would say the Brewers have just the right number.

 

We would be stupid to waste service time on Phillips and/or Brinson as part time outfielders.

[Brewer Fever]

The answer is to sign Hosmer or Duda to play 1B and move Thames to RF.

 

This only question this is the answer to is "how can we make the Brewers worse in 2018?".