Chris Archer

[homer]

Looking at his k/9, bb/9, and whip... why is his era the last two seasons in the 4’s?

 

He's extremely tough to hit the first two times through the order. However, the third time through, teams hit .302/.366/.486 off him. The Rays treated him as their "ace" and so they weren't inclined to pull him when he got in trouble before the 7th inning. Used properly and with a good middle inning bullpen, he'd be closer to his FIP of 3.40. The Ray's pen wasn't very deep. No doubt the manager stuck with Archer a lot, and when he did get pulled, the pen let in his runners.

 

So while he's a very good pitcher, with excellent stuff, he's not a true ace as he's basically a 6 inning guy. I'd still be very interested with Santana as a part of a package if the plan is to sign another big bat like Hosmer which would allow them to move Thames to RF in platoon with Perez or use Phillips there when Brinson shows he can hit enough to play nearly every day in CF. A Thames/Perez platoon could be as productive as Santana alone. The key would be replacing the production at 1B.

 

 

As a Chris Archer fantasy owner, I concur with this assessment. Pretty sure he's got a lot of innings under his belt too.

[brewers888]

Brinson and Arcia are both replaceable IMHO. Dubon can take SS and the VERY popular Brett Phillips can man CF. Unless you are dipping into FA we are going to have to give something to get a #1 or #2. Monte Harrison is coming on big time, how many OF'ers can make the majors?

 

Arcia is probably the one guy in the organization that we cannot afford to trade and Dubon is certainly not capable of replacing him. Orlando Arcia is already a gold glove caliber defender and the bat is already pretty decent. I wouldn't trade Arcia straight up for Archer.

 

I don't understand the desperation to trade for a pitcher. We have some great young arms in the minors like Burnes, Ortiz, and Peralta to go along with Hader and Woodruff. For the first time maybe ever the Brewers have the potential to put together a mostly home grown staff full of guys with big upside.

 

Brinson can be moved in the right deal but Arcia should be kept and hopefully extended beyond the next 5 years.

[Warning Track Power]

I just don't think this is the right move for the Brewers to be making. This isn't 2010-2011 when the Brewers had known quantities like Fielder, Braun, Hart, Weeks in their prime and were setting up to make a serious World Series run. Clearing the farm (Brinson, Ortiz, etc...) or gutting the MLB roster (Santana, Arcia) for above average, not elite, pitching with a roster of one solid season under their belts (Shaw, Pina, Aguilar) seems premature at this point.

 

If the Brewers truly want to make a move for above average pitching, I would rather see them overpay an Arrieta than deal the organizational depth of Brinson, Ortiz, Diaz, etc... for Archer.

[pacopete4]

I think it is easier for people to want to go after a name brand like Archer rather than wait out the Brewers wave of players that are on their way. We have guys lighting it up in the minor leagues right now that is not too far off from being at the major league level and it is very easy to get impatient for that wave to come.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Looking at his numbers, I don't understand why everyone is so enamored with this guy...

 

4+ ERA the past two seasons. Yes, he strikes out a ton of guys, but I don't think this is an ACE type that we truly need.

 

Don't see any other numbers that scream we need to trade one of our best 2 bats for.

 

What am I missing?

 

 

Think Archer pitching in the NL, does that help?

[homer]

I'd be real hesitant to part with Arcia. I think he could be a star..

Much higher ceiling than Dubon.

[brewcrewdue80]

Come on Arcia and Brinson? plus sweetners? You're talking 2 top 15? prospects for Archer? Arcia already proving he's a guaranteed 2+War SS on his worst of seasons. I'm with the guy who said I wouldn't trade him alone for Archer. Saying Dubon can take over Arcia when he's a barely .700 OPS bat in the minors w/o the defensive prowess/power that Arcia brings.

 

I'm with the thought on adding a FA and using our own SP prospects over burning them to trade for Archer.

Tampa fwiw has a great current core in the OF. A top SS prospect(Thank heaven removes the idea of Arcia parting), some question marks for C, 1b, Pitching.

I'd assume you're talking Woodruff and Ortiz, Dubon and assume a Pina or Thames involved...If they traded for the needs.

Otherwise, I'd think a Brinson, Ortiz and Diaz. With the sweetner whomever that may be. That's 3 top 100 players 1 being in top 20 if not 15 as headliner. One could imagine with Hiura, Diaz becomes expendable, Burnes/Peralta/Ponce that depth makes Ortiz expendable, and Phillips/Harrison make Brinson expendable since you're getting a "3" BWar SP over last 2 seasons but 7.8 FWar.

 

I don't know, I could warm up to an Archer acquisition but it just depends on the cost. We have depth in the minors, but would be thinning it potentially by too much for 1 guy. I suppose you can always get back some value when 2 or 3 seasons go by if the depth and or team teamed sour.

[brewmann04]

Archer does now just blow me away

[brewmann04]

I have read some Talk the the Brewers Brass really like Dubon

[JohnBriggs12]

Brinson and Arcia are both replaceable IMHO. Dubon can take SS and the VERY popular Brett Phillips can man CF. Unless you are dipping into FA we are going to have to give something to get a #1 or #2. Monte Harrison is coming on big time, how many OF'ers can make the majors?

 

Dubon? Really? He had a .513 OPS on the road at AAA. If they did deal Arcia, which in my opinion would be a huge mistake, Perez/Sogard would be sharing SS. Dubon's ceiling is as a utility infielder.

[JohnBriggs12]

I have read some Talk the the Brewers Brass really like Dubon

 

He can't hit.

[brewcrewdue80]

Dubon to me just screams an in between Hernan Perez/Luis Sardinas. Which imo means a backup, not an everyday starter.

[KeithStone53151]

I have read some Talk the the Brewers Brass really like Dubon

 

He can't hit.

 

A .297 avg over his minor league career just screams of a guy that can't hit. How in the world did this guy make it to AAA with such terrible numbers?

[KeithStone53151]

Come on Arcia and Brinson? plus sweetners? You're talking 2 top 15? prospects for Archer? Arcia already proving he's a guaranteed 2+War SS on his worst of seasons. I'm with the guy who said I wouldn't trade him alone for Archer. Saying Dubon can take over Arcia when he's a barely .700 OPS bat in the minors w/o the defensive prowess/power that Arcia brings.

 

I'm with the thought on adding a FA and using our own SP prospects over burning them to trade for Archer.

Tampa fwiw has a great current core in the OF. A top SS prospect(Thank heaven removes the idea of Arcia parting), some question marks for C, 1b, Pitching.

I'd assume you're talking Woodruff and Ortiz, Dubon and assume a Pina or Thames involved...If they traded for the needs.

Otherwise, I'd think a Brinson, Ortiz and Diaz. With the sweetner whomever that may be. That's 3 top 100 players 1 being in top 20 if not 15 as headliner. One could imagine with Hiura, Diaz becomes expendable, Burnes/Peralta/Ponce that depth makes Ortiz expendable, and Phillips/Harrison make Brinson expendable since you're getting a "3" BWar SP over last 2 seasons but 7.8 FWar.

 

I don't know, I could warm up to an Archer acquisition but it just depends on the cost. We have depth in the minors, but would be thinning it potentially by too much for 1 guy. I suppose you can always get back some value when 2 or 3 seasons go by if the depth and or team teamed sour.

 

I think the Arcia/Brinson price is what it takes to get Archer. He's a big name, solid pitcher on a very team friendly deal for 4 more years. If you want to avoid Arcia, then I would assume Brinson/Burnes/Diaz/and a couple smaller pieces. Tampa isn't going to let him go cheap, they have no reason to. All that said, I'm not advocating for any of these deals. I don't think Archer is quite enough of a game changing talent where we should include Brinson. Close, but not quite.

[brewcrewdue80]

Come on Arcia and Brinson? plus sweetners? You're talking 2 top 15? prospects for Archer? Arcia already proving he's a guaranteed 2+War SS on his worst of seasons. I'm with the guy who said I wouldn't trade him alone for Archer. Saying Dubon can take over Arcia when he's a barely .700 OPS bat in the minors w/o the defensive prowess/power that Arcia brings.

 

I'm with the thought on adding a FA and using our own SP prospects over burning them to trade for Archer.

Tampa fwiw has a great current core in the OF. A top SS prospect(Thank heaven removes the idea of Arcia parting), some question marks for C, 1b, Pitching.

I'd assume you're talking Woodruff and Ortiz, Dubon and assume a Pina or Thames involved...If they traded for the needs.

Otherwise, I'd think a Brinson, Ortiz and Diaz. With the sweetner whomever that may be. That's 3 top 100 players 1 being in top 20 if not 15 as headliner. One could imagine with Hiura, Diaz becomes expendable, Burnes/Peralta/Ponce that depth makes Ortiz expendable, and Phillips/Harrison make Brinson expendable since you're getting a "3" BWar SP over last 2 seasons but 7.8 FWar.

 

I don't know, I could warm up to an Archer acquisition but it just depends on the cost. We have depth in the minors, but would be thinning it potentially by too much for 1 guy. I suppose you can always get back some value when 2 or 3 seasons go by if the depth and or team teamed sour.

 

I think the Arcia/Brinson price is what it takes to get Archer. He's a big name, solid pitcher on a very team friendly deal for 4 more years. If you want to avoid Arcia, then I would assume Brinson/Burnes/Diaz/and a couple smaller pieces. Tampa isn't going to let him go cheap, they have no reason to. All that said, I'm not advocating for any of these deals. I don't think Archer is quite enough of a game changing talent where we should include Brinson. Close, but not quite.

 

And Arcia is more valuable than Brinson so to suggest both is over estimating what Archer will command. Archer most definitely isn't a game changer to the Brewers when it'd take away their best SS up the middle defender, and then highest talented OF. The ripple effect on now having to play others at SS vs being a backup would just hurt the team more than the help 34 Archer starts provides. Dubon is the best SS in the Brewers near major league system. By the time he's likely to make a decent impact vs negative we'll be in our 3rd year of 4 with Archer.

[mlloyd10]

Im trying to think why the Rays would want Arcia? They have Willy Adames waiting to take over at SS and Wander Franco, who was the top internation prospect at SS also.

[JosephC]

Orlando Arcia isn't going anywhere. Proven MLB everyday player with considerable upside under control for 5 years and 2 of those years at near minimum salary pay.

 

Agree with the previous post, Rays also have top prospect Willie Adames ready to play shortstop in the majors. While Arcia would have value to any major league franchise, the Rays would likely be less interested in him than most teams. It doesn't make much sense for Arcia to head there. I think their DH spot is open, but who wants a young shortstop DH'ing? I've seen comments the Rays don't need an outfielder, but they only have 4 outfielders on their 40 man roster and picking up another young outfielder will fill a 25 man spot and could end up filling the DH spot (likely one of their current outfielders moves into that spot). Corey Dickerson had by far the most DH at-bats for the Rays (55 games, 229 at bats) so if he sees more time there it definitely opens up playing time for another outfielder.

 

On the last page I thought the swap would be something like Archer for Lewis Brinson/Luis Ortiz/Isan Diaz. Now I think the Brewers would have to swap out Luis Ortiz and insert Brandon Woodruff instead. With Cobb out and potentially Odorizzi out too, it's hard for me to believe the Rays would move Archer and not get an immediate rotation arm back in the deal. Maybe Davies instead? But I would think the Rays would rather gamble on 6 years of Woodruff rather than take the safer route with Davies for 4 years.

 

Personally, I'm not big on an Archer acquisition. It sucks because the Brewers do have a gap and appear to be short on pitching in 2018. But with Burnes and Ortiz right around the corner, and hopefully Nelson back at full strength in 2019, I'm more for bridging the gap with cheaper options in 2018 rather than making a big-splash type trade.

[Warning Track Power]

I just don't think the Brewers are at the point in the build that they should be dealing the top end prospects for Archer. If they somehow could get him for Brinson and say Diplan, then do it. However, I am interested in the Brewers sustaining winning for seasons and that only occurs through depth in the system.

[billymac]

I don't think its a good idea right now, I just don't see him as an ace that we'd have to pony up to get him for. I think you can spend some money and get 2 quality SP's and 1-2 quality RP's right now. If we are in contention mid season, that is when I would pull the trigger on a trade if we are looking for a starting pitcher. If you got 2 of Lynn/Chatwood/Cobb without giving away any prospects, the club is in much better shape come deadline time.

[adambr2]

Orlando Arcia isn't going anywhere. Proven MLB everyday player with considerable upside under control for 5 years and 2 of those years at near minimum salary pay.

 

Orlando Arcia probably isn't going anywhere, but I'm of the belief that we should always be open to every possibility, because sometimes surprising opportunities present themselves unexpectedly.

 

I'm sure most Brewer fans didn't think Alcides Escobar was going anywhere after 2010.

[brewcrewdue80]

Orlando Arcia isn't going anywhere. Proven MLB everyday player with considerable upside under control for 5 years and 2 of those years at near minimum salary pay.

 

Agree with the previous post, Rays also have top prospect Willie Adames ready to play shortstop in the majors. While Arcia would have value to any major league franchise, the Rays would likely be less interested in him than most teams. It doesn't make much sense for Arcia to head there. I think their DH spot is open, but who wants a young shortstop DH'ing? I've seen comments the Rays don't need an outfielder, but they only have 4 outfielders on their 40 man roster and picking up another young outfielder will fill a 25 man spot and could end up filling the DH spot (likely one of their current outfielders moves into that spot). Corey Dickerson had by far the most DH at-bats for the Rays (55 games, 229 at bats) so if he sees more time there it definitely opens up playing time for another outfielder.

 

On the last page I thought the swap would be something like Archer for Lewis Brinson/Luis Ortiz/Isan Diaz. Now I think the Brewers would have to swap out Luis Ortiz and insert Brandon Woodruff instead. With Cobb out and potentially Odorizzi out too, it's hard for me to believe the Rays would move Archer and not get an immediate rotation arm back in the deal. Maybe Davies instead? But I would think the Rays would rather gamble on 6 years of Woodruff rather than take the safer route with Davies for 4 years.

 

Personally, I'm not big on an Archer acquisition. It sucks because the Brewers do have a gap and appear to be short on pitching in 2018. But with Burnes and Ortiz right around the corner, and hopefully Nelson back at full strength in 2019, I'm more for bridging the gap with cheaper options in 2018 rather than making a big-splash type trade.

 

To the bolded part, that was my suggestion without Woodruff, because the Brewer needs are filling out a 5man rotation. Woodruff I see as #5 in that equation give or take #4 depending on how we deal with Hader. So, including Woodruff in the deal would lead to another hole to plug. I'd just think Stearns would make a hard line on that with the knowledge to Tampa that swapping Woodruff/Ortiz at this moment is in the prospect world even only Ortiz is younger with potentially higher ceiling. Tampa would be nitpicking on essentially just 1.3 seasons away over currently ready in missing on this deal, which for Milwaukee is a deal made to improve for 2018 season and Tampa to improve it's Future.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Why is the world would the Brewers trade Davies in an Archer deal. That kind of defeats the purpose of trading for him doesn't it. I'm going to stop before I say something unfriendly to a fellow posters

 

 

Brewers are very high on Dubon. Arcia's defense is NOT elite

[PlayerHader]

Arcia's defense is not elite? He had a pretty high E total, but he's got all the tools to be perhaps the best in the league.

[KeithStone53151]

Why is the world would the Brewers trade Davies in an Archer deal. That kind of defeats the purpose of trading for him doesn't it. I'm going to stop before I say something unfriendly to a fellow posters

 

 

Brewers are very high on Dubon. Arcia's defense is NOT elite

 

Well not really actually. Davies could easily be included in a trade for Archer. I don't think we would do that, but it isn't impossible. In reality I don't think Archer ends up moving, and if he does it's going to be for a mega-haul. A team like the Rays won't trade a #2 caliber starting pitcher on a team friendly deal with 4 years of team control for a mediocre-above average package. The Chris Sale package is likely what they are targeting, not the Gray package or the Quintana package. If they don't get it, might as well keep him and improve elsewhere.

[KCBrewerfan34]

Arcia's defense is not elite? He had a pretty high E total, but he's got all the tools to be perhaps the best in the league.

 

 

I've seen articles were Arcia's defense (and reputation) are overrated so pick you poison but your statement "but he's got all the tools" to be perhaps the best in the league" is based on what?

 

Swanson and Arcia had 20 errors each, next guy had 12 please elaborate on the tools. Thanks.