Chris Archer

[beekay414]

Archer is the most valuable option out of all those guys and it's not even close. That's accounting for contract and expected performance during his potential term with the Brewers. If Stearns can find a cost he's comfortable with to acquire him, I can't wait to get Archer on the mound for Milwaukee to show you all what we have. I too am cringing at the potential cost in terms of prospects it may cost to get him. But I think some of you guys are letting the cost to acquire him bleed into your expectations of performance. He'll be a clear ACE here in terms of stuff and results. Getting out of the AL East and into the NL will be a huge plus.

 

K-Rod feel, lol

 

Well said.

 

I'm more than okay giving up the prospects for Archer. You're not going to find that level of production for what he's getting paid. It's more than worth it as a small market chasing big dreams.

[Boomer5]

1. Arrieta

2. Cobb

3. Lynn

4. Darvish (Brewers would probably be his last choice and I don't trust him on his last big deal after that kind of disappointment)

5. Having Jared from Subway do bad things to my inner child and posting video of it online.

6. Trading Santana + Burnes + more top-20 prospects for Archer

 

I don't trust Archer at all. It always seems like just a matter of time before teams start crushing him. I kind of get that K-Rod feel from him. They're almost all bad bets value-wise IMO, but Archer is the worst IMO.

 

Why in the world would anyone want Arietta? He wants a monster payday which would be fine if he was in his prime. Which he isn't.

 

Or to put it another way, If the Cubs don't want him why would we?

[jjfanec]

The Archer and darvish/arreita pairing would fit what hgh heat is saying that the Brewers are looking for a cheaper and more expensive pitcher

[bill hAll Star]

Archer is the most valuable option out of all those guys and it's not even close. That's accounting for contract and expected performance during his potential term with the Brewers. If Stearns can find a cost he's comfortable with to acquire him, I can't wait to get Archer on the mound for Milwaukee to show you all what we have. I too am cringing at the potential cost in terms of prospects it may cost to get him. But I think some of you guys are letting the cost to acquire him bleed into your expectations of performance. He'll be a clear ACE here in terms of stuff and results. Getting out of the AL East and into the NL will be a huge plus.

 

K-Rod feel, lol

 

Honest question: how many guys throw 95 MPH their whole career? How many guys throw hard sliders their whole career and 95 MPH that don't slow down or get Tommy John?

 

I realize that Archer is only 29, but there's a real possibility that his arm starts to deteriorate in the near future.

 

Cost absolutely factors in for me. Everyone can get excited about Archer only making $7 million instead of Lynn getting $17 for instance, but you also have to factor in that you are giving up Burnes, who, (I realize this is also a risk) will essentially come up with a 6 year, $20 million contract if he performs well.

[Boomer5]

Archer is the most valuable option out of all those guys and it's not even close. That's accounting for contract and expected performance during his potential term with the Brewers. If Stearns can find a cost he's comfortable with to acquire him, I can't wait to get Archer on the mound for Milwaukee to show you all what we have. I too am cringing at the potential cost in terms of prospects it may cost to get him. But I think some of you guys are letting the cost to acquire him bleed into your expectations of performance. He'll be a clear ACE here in terms of stuff and results. Getting out of the AL East and into the NL will be a huge plus.

 

K-Rod feel, lol

 

Honest question: how many guys throw 95 MPH their whole career? How many guys throw hard sliders their whole career and 95 MPH that don't slow down or get Tommy John?

 

I realize that Archer is only 29, but there's a real possibility that his arm starts to deteriorate in the near future.

 

Cost absolutely factors in for me. Everyone can get excited about Archer only making $7 million instead of Lynn getting $17 for instance, but you also have to factor in that you are giving up Burnes, who, (I realize this is also a risk) will essentially come up with a 6 year, $20 million contract if he performs well.

 

Which is why signing most any pitcher to anything more than a 3 year deal is insane in the days of ultra high rpm pitching.

 

Still I think we all know the Brewers are in go for it mode so expect a whale of a move for a TOR guy.

[KeithStone53151]

Archer is the most valuable option out of all those guys and it's not even close. That's accounting for contract and expected performance during his potential term with the Brewers. If Stearns can find a cost he's comfortable with to acquire him, I can't wait to get Archer on the mound for Milwaukee to show you all what we have. I too am cringing at the potential cost in terms of prospects it may cost to get him. But I think some of you guys are letting the cost to acquire him bleed into your expectations of performance. He'll be a clear ACE here in terms of stuff and results. Getting out of the AL East and into the NL will be a huge plus.

 

K-Rod feel, lol

 

Honest question: how many guys throw 95 MPH their whole career? How many guys throw hard sliders their whole career and 95 MPH that don't slow down or get Tommy John?

 

I realize that Archer is only 29, but there's a real possibility that his arm starts to deteriorate in the near future.

 

Cost absolutely factors in for me. Everyone can get excited about Archer only making $7 million instead of Lynn getting $17 for instance, but you also have to factor in that you are giving up Burnes, who, (I realize this is also a risk) will essentially come up with a 6 year, $20 million contract if he performs well.

 

I'm open to Archer only in a very specific type of deal, and one that absolutely doesn't involve Burnes. For me, ortiz/bickford/santana are all spare parts if we build the team how we want to build it. I'll do an archer trade for that grouping of players with some smaller pieces added. If Tampa demands Burnes, we don't need to make that move. If the plan is to get a FA SP and trade for a SP, the trade could be a slightly lower aim like Duffy or Salazar and still field a solid team.

[bill hAll Star]

Archer is the most valuable option out of all those guys and it's not even close. That's accounting for contract and expected performance during his potential term with the Brewers. If Stearns can find a cost he's comfortable with to acquire him, I can't wait to get Archer on the mound for Milwaukee to show you all what we have. I too am cringing at the potential cost in terms of prospects it may cost to get him. But I think some of you guys are letting the cost to acquire him bleed into your expectations of performance. He'll be a clear ACE here in terms of stuff and results. Getting out of the AL East and into the NL will be a huge plus.

 

K-Rod feel, lol

 

Honest question: how many guys throw 95 MPH their whole career? How many guys throw hard sliders their whole career and 95 MPH that don't slow down or get Tommy John?

 

I realize that Archer is only 29, but there's a real possibility that his arm starts to deteriorate in the near future.

 

Cost absolutely factors in for me. Everyone can get excited about Archer only making $7 million instead of Lynn getting $17 for instance, but you also have to factor in that you are giving up Burnes, who, (I realize this is also a risk) will essentially come up with a 6 year, $20 million contract if he performs well.

 

Which is why signing most any pitcher to anything more than a 3 year deal is insane in the days of ultra high rpm pitching.

 

Still I think we all know the Brewers are in go for it mode so expect a whale of a move for a TOR guy.

 

So you're going to put all of your eggs in the basket of a guy you are admitting these issues with...

 

If Archer is hurt or ineffective, kiss the next 5 years goodbye. You've traded half of your farm system for him.

 

If you sign Lance Lynn and he's terrible on arrival, you still have hope of Corbin Burnes coming up and turning into a TOR pitcher next year.

 

I'm a huge proponent of free agency over gutting our entire farm for a guy that may or may not be an ace. I personally don't even care if in theory we sign Arrieta and he's terrible for the final 2 years of his 5 year contract. There's a good chance that the guys we didn't trade for Archer will come up and provide value.

[Warning Track Power]

I'm a huge proponent of free agency over gutting our entire farm for a guy that may or may not be an ace. I personally don't even care if in theory we sign Arrieta and he's terrible for the final 2 years of his 5 year contract. There's a good chance that the guys we didn't trade for Archer will come up and provide value.

This is where I am at and I really want Archer. Signing Arrieta and losing the pick or trading Santana, Ortiz and Burnes for Archer is an easy choice.

[NievesNoNO]

I like Archer quite a bit as well but Woodruff and Burnes would be off the table for me.

[Boomer5]

Oh I'm not disagreeing that pitching is hyper risky and trading the remaining talent on the farm for one is not smart especially when you have the guys we have ready go to soon in 2018 and more likely 2019.

 

But that is the direction they will go, big name expensive types who are ready to make a 2018 run.

[bill hAll Star]

Oh I'm not disagreeing that pitching is hyper risky and trading the remaining talent on the farm for one is not smart especially when you have the guys we have ready go to soon in 2018 and more likely 2019.

 

But that is the direction they will go, big name expensive types who are ready to make a 2018 run.

 

Right, and I'm just saying that unless Archer's cost is considerably lower to trade for than we know, I'd rather spend the extra ~$10 million/year on a free agent or bring in a salary dump.

 

I think Archer could be fine, but I think there are better ways to keep organizational depth and/or MLB depth by keeping the prospects.

 

If the Brewers miss out on free agency, I hope they do not get desperate and empty the farm for Archer. I like him. He's fine. He's not Chris Sale and there are some red flags with Archer as well.

[beekay414]

I like Burnes as much as the next guy but he's not an ace. His safe bet is a #3 starter who eats innings with the potential to, perhaps, someday be a #2 starter. Yeah, he's likely a safe prospect but he's still that...a prospect. Plus, I don't think you guys really have to worry about losing him due to HH19 saying that once the Rays added Burnes to the conversation, DS backed off.

 

Here's the question...would you rather the package be Santana, Burnes and A ball fliers or Santana, Ortiz, and top 30 depth (think guys like Ponce, Erceg, Pennington, Peralta, etc)? Because, if you remove Burnes, you're stuck giving up more on the back end of the trade. I think I'd rather have more chances at hitting on depth than I would worrying about losing one guy. Especially considering Burnes' ceiling isn't a TOR type ceiling.

[coolhandluke121]

 

K-Rod feel, lol

 

People would have reacted the same way if anybody had predicted a decline for K-Rod at the same age. Archer gives up a lot of hard contact and throws a lot of pitches. Of course the latter is true of all strikeout pitchers who throw ~200 innings, but he doesn't have the dominant stuff of guys like Sale and Verlander. Whenever I've seen him pitch, which admittedly isn't that often (who watches the Rays??), it seems like he's dancing around guys and laboring a bit, like Gallardo used to do. I always get the sense that offenses are about to break through against him. I'm not paying the cost.

[tigerbrew]

Corbin Burnes should be as untouchable as Hader, I absolutely would not trade Burnes for Archer.

 

I remember Stearns said in an interview that the Brewers plan to develop homegrown SPs, I really hope he sticks with the plan. Burnes could be very valuable in the Brewers rotation in the next 2-3 years.

[SRB]

How would we be trading half the farm by packaging Santana and 1-2 of our top prospects and a high-upside flier? We would still have multiple top-100 prospects, plus Hader, plus Phillips, plus an overall very deep farm system.

 

If Santana is the headliner than I would try to avoid including Hiura or Burnes, though as mentioned previously it's not clear to me why Tampa Bay would want Santana.

[beekay414]

Some of y'all are massively overrating Burnes.

[Mr Southpaw]

I like Archer quite a bit as well but Woodruff and Burnes would be off the table for me.

 

Bingo!

[Mr Southpaw]

Oh I'm not disagreeing that pitching is hyper risky and trading the remaining talent on the farm for one is not smart especially when you have the guys we have ready go to soon in 2018 and more likely 2019.

 

But that is the direction they will go, big name expensive types who are ready to make a 2018 run.

 

Right, and I'm just saying that unless Archer's cost is considerably lower to trade for than we know, I'd rather spend the extra ~$10 million/year on a free agent or bring in a salary dump.

 

I think Archer could be fine, but I think there are better ways to keep organizational depth and/or MLB depth by keeping the prospects.

 

If the Brewers miss out on free agency, I hope they do not get desperate and empty the farm for Archer. I like him. He's fine. He's not Chris Sale and there are some red flags with Archer as well.

 

If TB doesn't want to budge on Archer, just pay less for Jake Odorizzi. I kike the two year commitment better than the longer Archer deal.

[tigerbrew]

I'm getting a little worried. Seems like the Rays are looking to fleece the Brewers in this trade, my advice to Stearns is it's better to walk away than make a bad trade.

 

I'd much rather go with the pitchers we currently have than making a bad trade.

[jjfanec]

Some of y'all are massively overrating Burnes.

 

Agree 100 percent. Woodruff and Burnes are solid pitching prospects but some on this board treat them like top 10 prospects. To get a young, controllable, top of the rotation starter you are going to give up Burnes or woodruff for sure

[TURBO]

Some of y'all are massively overrating Burnes.

 

...and some of "y'all" are massively overrating Archer.

[trwi7]

To get a young, controllable, top of the rotation starter you are going to give up Burnes or woodruff for sure

 

You're talking about a young top of the rotation starter. We're all talking about Chris Archer.

[superfly]

Some of y'all are massively overrating Burnes.

 

Prospect hugging...brewerfan members are experts at it.

[brewmann04]

That what makes this board great how some value our prospects.

[MKEguy]

Some of y'all are massively overrating Burnes.

 

Prospect hugging...brewerfan members are experts at it.

 

I am guilty