2018 Brewers 25 Man Roster [Latest: Starting rotation set, post #445]

[adambr2]

I didn't say it was a good deal, I just am skeptical about Puig being a fit with the Brewers. I don't agree with what CHL121 said about Puig, by himself, being a much better option that Braun (bolded in the quote). The Dodgers are a 90+ win team every year and they have the veteran leadership to be able to handle the immaturities of Puig. I would be very hesitant to bring him to an inconsistent and young team.

 

To each their own, I personally think that kind of thing is a little overblown. The Dodgers are a veteran team to be sure, but they have some talent on the roster that is as young or younger than anyone we have in Seager and Bellinger. If Puig's presence was a distraction it certainly didn't affect those two.

[Lathund]

I have to admit that those of us who wanted to trade Braun for Puig were wrong on on one count though. We figured Braun would be a wasted roster spot, a walking injury, and a drag on the payroll when the Brewers were ready to contend again in a couple years. Turns out even we were overly optimistic, because they contended this year and Braun failed to even reach 1.0 WAR.

 

I don't disagree with the overall point about the trade, I wanted us to take the deal as well, but you're exaggerating how bad Braun was this season. From where do you get that he didn't accrue even 1 WAR? BBref has him at 1.2, Fangraphs at 1.5 and BP at 1.7.

[bill hAll Star]

I am not a Braun pessimist/hater and would've taken the trade, but I'm also not ribbing the Brewers in hindsight. I liked Puig as the wild card throw-in.

 

The Dodgers are the ones that backed out, so whatever.

[adambr2]

The Dodgers are the ones that backed out, so whatever.

 

Do you have a link to anything that indicates this?

 

Not to question your credibility, but I've just never heard that to be the case.

[OnaBadger58]

I didn't say it was a good deal, I just am skeptical about Puig being a fit with the Brewers. I don't agree with what CHL121 said about Puig, by himself, being a much better option that Braun (bolded in the quote). The Dodgers are a 90+ win team every year and they have the veteran leadership to be able to handle the immaturities of Puig. I would be very hesitant to bring him to an inconsistent and young team.

 

To each their own, I personally think that kind of thing is a little overblown. The Dodgers are a veteran team to be sure, but they have some talent on the roster that is as young or younger than anyone we have in Seager and Bellinger. If Puig's presence was a distraction it certainly didn't affect those two.

 

And I may be overblowing it, but it is just easier to mask chemistry issues from Puig A) when your consistently winning (winning cures all) B) when you have veterans to mentor Puig C) when he isn't expected to be "the guy" on his team.

[coolhandluke121]

 

I don't disagree with the overall point about the trade, I wanted us to take the deal as well, but you're exaggerating how bad Braun was this season. From where do you get that he didn't accrue even 1 WAR? BBref has him at 1.2, Fangraphs at 1.5 and BP at 1.7.

 

Baseball reference has him at 1.7 oWAR and -0.9 dWAR this year. Their WAR calculations are better because they confirm my pre-existing biases.

 

Seriously though, he's been pretty bad on defense for a while. I don't know how you can measure lack of instincts, but I do know that he's mostly been able to make up for it with speed in the past and that's gonna change real fast and real soon. It has probably started already. If you calculate the split-seconds lost by bad initial reads, you'd probably find that only the very fastest outfielders in all of baseball can consistently make up for it and be respectable defenders.

 

I know his salary isn't supposed to be so bad considering how few obligations they have, but it could be the difference between signing a great free agent vs. a good one. I know the thought is that Bryce Harper and Manny Machado will get way too much, but if you're getting so many other good players for so cheap, who cares? The Yankees and Red Sox don't have unlimited money. Without Braun, the Brewers might have had a rare opportunity to sign one of the best players in baseball in his prime.

 

I know he hit okay this year, but with all the questions marks, it's not worth it. The only way he can really be a big help is to move to 1b. They might have been just as good with a Phillips/Perez platoon in left, if not better. And my guess is that every year, there will be a bunch of bargain guys who could have been had for next to nothing who will be just as good as Braun. At least at 1b, he's not blocking any other prospects and might not be a negative defender.

[bill hAll Star]

The Dodgers are the ones that backed out, so whatever.

 

Do you have a link to anything that indicates this?

 

Not to question your credibility, but I've just never heard that to be the case.

 

I'll try to find the article that specifically says the Dodgers waited too long and the clock ran out, but this one notes that it got down to "the final prospect" in the trade discussions.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2663513-ryan-braun-was-reportedly-almost-traded-to-dodgers-for-yasiel-puig

 

But like I said, I am 99% sure I had read that the Brewers were waiting to hear back and the Dodgers never got back to them.

 

One could also say that Stearns should have just taken a lesser deal, but for all we know, the prospects could have been non-impact guys making the trade even less appealing back then.

[coolhandluke121]

I believe that's going to come back to haunt the Brewers many times in the coming years. I guess I've said my piece and don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's gonna be debated again many times before his deal is up. Really hope he plays 1b next year.

[bill hAll Star]

I believe that's going to come back to haunt the Brewers many times in the coming years. I guess I've said my piece and don't want to beat a dead horse, but it's gonna be debated again many times before his deal is up. Really hope he plays 1b next year.

 

We've discussed this on RGM. You win some, you lose some. Stearns could have given up Lucroy earlier than he did. Waited it out and won. Braun was playing well and at the time, the Dodgers trade probably just looked something that slashed Braun's '19 and '20 salary from the books with the Puig wild card thrown in. It's possible that Puig and McCarthy wouldn't have recovered their value in Milwaukee as they just did in 2017.

 

The no trade thing is an issue, but it's possible that Stearns can still shed a year or two of the salary if they really need to or maybe flip him before 2019 for an overpaid, older back-end starting pitcher or infielder that fits our needs better while they other team could use a DH.

 

Stearns has timed almost every trade perfectly and for all we know, the Dodgers jobbed him at the deadline in 2016 (we were likely only talking to 1-2 teams about Braun given his trade constraints). For those reasons, I'm not losing sleep over it.

 

He seems to hold out for maximum value (Boston/SF/Rangers trades) and has walked away with a steal every time. The downside of doing that is every once in a while you hold off too long on a different trade that backfires. That's how it goes. Maybe he could have just done McCarthy/Puig and called it a day but thought he could get more and the Dodgers just hung up the phone at 11:30 PM on deadline night.

[BrewCrewBlueDevil]

SP: Anderson, Chacin, Davies, Guerra, Woodruff

RP: Suter, Williams, Barnes, Logan, Jeffers, Hader, Knebel

C- Pina, Vogt

1B- Thames, Aguilar

2B- Villar

3B- Shaw

SS- Arcia

UT- Perez, Sogard

OF- Braun, Santana, Yelich, Cain

 

RHP

Yelich .310, 25 HR

Cain .285, 20 HR

Braun .260, 25 HR

Shaw .270, 35 HR

Thames .240, 25 HR

Pina .240, 12 HR

Villar .235, 18 HR

Arcia .250, 15 HR

Pitcher

 

LHP

Yelich

Cain

Braun

Shaw

Aguilar .240, 15 HR

Pina .240, 8 HR

Perez .265, 10 HR

Arcia

Pitcher

[brwrsfan]

The roster might be accurate, but I have to imagine if Braun and Santana are on the roster, that Braun will be playing 1b against lefties with Santana in the OF. Hard to imagine the Brewers want one of those bats on the bench on an every day basis.

[pacopete4]

If the NL only had a DH. Like it should.

[NYChez]

Gallardo likely fits in there, too.

[SomewhereInTime]

I don't think there is any chance Guerra is in the rotation to start the season.

[djoctagone]

my stab at it:

 

c: manny pina and stephen vogt (andrew susac is dfa'd, claimed and optioned; jett bandy is dfa'd and outrighted to the minors)

1b: eric thames

2b: jonathan villar

ss: orlando arcia

3b: travis shaw

of: sees a rotation of ryan braun, christian yellich, lorenzo cain and brett phillips (keon broxton is optioned but recalled if braun gets injured; domingo santana is traded)

position player group: hernan perez, jesus aguilar, eric sogard

 

rotation: chase anderson, jhoulys chacin, zach davies, yovani gallardo, brent suter (suter is optioned or takes guerra's spot in the bullpen if santana nets a starting pitcher)

bullpen: jacob barnes, oliver drake, junior guerra, josh hader, jeremy jeffress, corey knebel, boone logan

 

10-day disabled list (mind you that two catchers have been cut from the 40-man already, so no need to utilize the 60-day dl): jimmy nelson

[StearnsFTW]

my stab at it:

 

c: manny pina and stephen vogt (andrew susac is dfa'd, claimed and optioned; jett bandy is dfa'd and outrighted to the minors)

1b: eric thames

2b: jonathan villar

ss: orlando arcia

3b: travis shaw

of: sees a rotation of ryan braun, christian yellich, lorenzo cain and brett phillips (keon broxton is optioned but recalled if braun gets injured; domingo santana is traded)

position player group: hernan perez, jesus aguilar, eric sogard

 

rotation: chase anderson, jhoulys chacin, zach davies, yovani gallardo, brent suter (suter is optioned or takes guerra's spot in the bullpen if santana nets a starting pitcher)

bullpen: jacob barnes, oliver drake, junior guerra, josh hader, jeremy jeffress, corey knebel, boone logan

 

10-day disabled list (mind you that two catchers have been cut from the 40-man already, so no need to utilize the 60-day dl): jimmy nelson

 

Good effort. On my quibble would be Santana traded for nobody on the 25 is incredibly unlikely in my opinion. Can't really see Woodruff out of the rotation in this scenario either.

[DHonks]

I think Woodruff, Gallardo, Suter, and Wilkerson all have a better chance at the rotation than Guerra.

[coolhandluke121]

Aguilar should not get a roster spot. How can you think a guy who OPS'ed .800 in 4,000 milb pa's would duplicate last season's success? He's Matt Clark and Jason Rogers all over again. If you disagree, please don't just tell me his stats last year because I know. Try to make a meaningful argument why last year was a more accurate indication of his talent than 4,000 pa's as a minor league player. (I bet you can't.)

 

And I'd bet money Braun will be a better 1b than Thames or Aguilar. Range and mobility matters, even at first, and he also has better reach. His biggest problem at 3b was throwing accuracy but that will be mitigated at 1b.

 

No way Yelich is in right. That kind of a range with a somewhat questionable arm belongs in left. I'm sure they want to play Phillips in rf, as they should. Yelich and Phillips can both play center if Cain is out, and Braun and Perez can cover the corner outfield spots if anyone is missing there.

 

I'd rather keep 13 pitchers. Vogt can be the emergency 1b. I could live with Braun in rf and Phillips as the 4th outfielder, but another reliever would be a better use of a roster spot than Aguilar.

 

Pina/Vogt

Thames/Braun (Vogt)

Sogard/Villar (Perez)

Arcia (Sogard/Villar)

Shaw (Perez)

Yelich/Cain/Phillips (Braun/Perez)

Utility: Perez

 

Keep Bandy/Susac, Broxton, and some kind of Aguilar-type (pretty sure he's out of options, right?) in AAA for emergencies. If they can't find a trade for Santana, then they can trade Phillips, though that's definitely not my preference.

[pacopete4]

It’s fine to see Aguilar as low man on the totem pole but to completely dismiss his 2017 season is awfully silly imo.

[wallus]

If you don't feel Aguilar is worthy of a roster spot, why not have Perez be that half of the platoon? I'm not saying his splits are great for it but how many lefty starters do we face? Also, I would imagine he would be a pretty good defender.

[DHonks]

I really loved Aguilar’s approach at the plate. He reminded of Pujols...he often would spit on pitches, but then when he swung the ball just jumped off his bat. We really need the DH!

[coolhandluke121]

If you don't feel Aguilar is worthy of a roster spot, why not have Perez be that half of the platoon? I'm not saying his splits are great for it but how many lefty starters do we face? Also, I would imagine he would be a pretty good defender.

 

I wouldn't quite see he should be that half of the platoon, but with Braun/Thames at 1b, he would clearly be a better option as an emergency 1b. With Braun and Thames you have two guys who can be borderline regulars at 1b, and one of them will be available to pinch-hit almost every game. There's no reason to waste a roster spot on such a limited guy like Aguilar as a 3rd-string 1b and pinch-hitter.

 

Vogt can be the emergency LHB 1b and Perez the emergency RHB 1b. Both of those guys are infinitely better uses of a roster spot because of what else they can do. Perez's value on defense and the basepaths is so much better that it could almost close the gap with Aguilar even regardless of the fact that he can play 4 other positions well. You can probably even add 2 more positions that he plays about as well as Aguilar plays 1b.

 

They need the extra reliever, period. Suter (or Hader) won't give you many innings per start, and guys like Anderson, Davis, and Chacin aren't exactly big innings-eaters either. Woodruff will probably have an innings limit as a young player, and Nelson will too when he comes back. This is one of the easiest offseason choices they will make.

[coolhandluke121]

It’s fine to see Aguilar as low man on the totem pole but to completely dismiss his 2017 season is awfully silly imo.

 

Dismissing his minor league track record is literally more than 10x sillier when projecting his value next year. I would be fine with him in a platoon but if you're trying to be serious about winning, you'd be a fool not to keep trying to improve that roster spot, which they are clearly doing.

[JohnBriggs12]

If the season started today, assuming they keep 12 pitchers here's my breakdown of the 13 position players:

 

Locks (8): Cain, Yelich, Santana, Braun, Shaw, Arcia, Pina, Thames

 

Near locks (2): Vogt, Sogard

 

Guys fighting for 3 remaining spots (5): Perez, Villar, Phillips, Broxton, Aguilar

 

Trade possibles (5): Broxton, Santana, Perez, Villar, Aguilar, Thames

 

Phillips has options. Broxton does not. Opportunity for Phillips to play everyday at AAA and options might be deciding factor. Only one of two make team out of Arizona. I give Perez the edge over Villar for versatility and ability to hit LH pitching and play all 3 OF spots. Both could make the team only if Aguilar does not.

[pacopete4]

How would Vogt not be a lock? Did we acquire a catcher I am not remembering?