2017-09-21: Cubs (Arrieta) at Brewers (Davies) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 5-3, 10 innings]

[Austin Tatious]

Good comments across the board. I agree with the sentiments. The hitting approach late is lacking, big time. You have to second guess Coles at this point.

 

Stearns needs to really improve that pen. Drake, Torres, Hughes, and Barnes should all be replaced. Yes, that's a whopping four spots but we have cash.

 

It's a combination of both, late inning pitching, and lack of hitting both late and with RISP.

 

Santana has had a nice year and hit well but there's still meat on the bone for big improvement. All he needed was a sac fly there and he didn't approach it right. You could see it. Heck, a squeeze might have done it but he probably couldn't execute it.

 

Brinson and Phillips may add nice juice to the lineup.

 

And Braun needs to wake up from his slumber.

[jerichoholicninja]

Turned off the game after that debacle of a 9th inning knowing there was no way they were going to win and just wanted to read about it in the morning. Was on my phone and forgot the MLB App would keep me up to date. Good thing my wife was sleeping next to me and I wasn't watching it because I have no idea how I would have reacted to actually watching Bryant hit that homer. You can blame Drake for giving up the runs, or Walker for screwing up the ground ball, or Counsell for how he managed the bullpen but this whole second half has been on the offense. Just pathetic approaches. I have never seen a whole team crap their pants anytime they come up with runners on like the Brewers do. You can say fire Coles all you want but this on the players. I can guarantee Coles isn't telling them to swing at anything with runners on base.

[Lathund]

That was a really tough loss to take, but I gotta say that was one hell of a game. If I was a neutral I would have enjoyed it a lot!

 

Zach Davies really impressed me (again); he got through 7 innings, with a pitch count in shape to likely go the full 9 if we hadn't needed offense. Cubs made a lot of contact, sure, but a lot of it weak. But that seemed to me a consequence of Zach knowing what he needed to do; With a depleted bullpen and in the first game of a tough 4-game series it was more important than ever to go deep into the game. So less nibbling, more strikes, consciously attempting to keep the pitch count low. You run the risk of giving up hits that way, but it's a necessary risk. Now obviously I don't know if this was actually what he was going for, but it seemed that way to me. The more I see him pitch, the more I start to think he's going to have a very long career (Unless injuries derail that), as he can flat out pitch. While the stuff isn't overwhelming, the overall command, poise and overall skillset (Including fielding and at the plate) makes him valuable. Likely never going to be a big star, more like a candidate for "Best player to never make an All-Star game" lists, but that's still very good.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

You guys really expected to win the division? Yes we blew two games in two nights but the Cubs are much better. I've been chasing the WC for the last 2 months.

[pacopete4]

You guys really expected to win the division? Yes we blew two games in two nights but the Cubs are much better. I've been chasing the WC for the last 2 months.

 

I just never understand these comments or thinking. Like, it's baseball man. The best team doesn't always win. It happens a lot actually that the right mix of guys win. Are the Cubs more talented? Probably. But to just disregard what the Brewers players have been doing all year is crazy. This team was a play or two away from winning the last two games and being right there to possibly knock off the Cubs. Now they will have to win the next three to have a chance but still, with 10 games to play and they had every opportunity to do it. Having low expectations leads to low results. I'm glad the Brewers players don't think that way or we'd probably have 90 losses at this point.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

"It's baseball" and there were 10 games left and the Brewers were essentially 4 back, with 4 against the Cubs and 3 against St. Louis. They had to sweep this series to REALLY make it realistic. Winning the division at this point in the season was a pipe dream.

[PlayerHader]

Cravy was already DFAed this year, no one wanted him so he had to stick around.

I'm pretty sure he was trying to get released, still would have collected a check for the season. Surprised Brewers brass didn't have the balls to release him.

Just keep him and send him to the instructional league for the whole year.

 

I read on Twitter (probably somebody on here) that Cravy had been live-tweeting the Rams/49ers game, and that comment was in reference to that. I'd hope that's the case.

[MoreTrife]

Good comments across the board. I agree with the sentiments. The hitting approach late is lacking, big time. You have to second guess Coles at this point.

 

Stearns needs to really improve that pen. Drake, Torres, Hughes, and Barnes should all be replaced. Yes, that's a whopping four spots but we have cash.

 

It's a combination of both, late inning pitching, and lack of hitting both late and with RISP.

 

Santana has had a nice year and hit well but there's still meat on the bone for big improvement. All he needed was a sac fly there and he didn't approach it right. You could see it. Heck, a squeeze might have done it but he probably couldn't execute it.

 

Brinson and Phillips may add nice juice to the lineup.

 

And Braun needs to wake up from his slumber.

 

The problem with Brinson and Phillips is they are both in the mold of feast or famine, high K rate. Getting real real sick of it.

[Fear The Chorizo]

"It's baseball" and there were 10 games left and the Brewers were essentially 4 back, with 4 against the Cubs and 3 against St. Louis. They had to sweep this series to REALLY make it realistic. Winning the division at this point in the season was a pipe dream.

 

Winning 3 of 4 in this series, with the Cubs having to immediately travel to STL for another 4 game series against a team still chasing a playoff spot, is still a very real scenario to win the division - it wasn't sweep or bust.

 

That said, losing last night's game coupled with the night before in Pittsburgh in the fashion they did really does hamper the division chances, since they now need STL to beat up on the Cubs next week...something they've proven incapable of doing so far this season.

 

At this point, the ideal scenario for Milwaukee is heading into Monday's off day at least even with colorado for the 2nd WC lead, still 1-2 games up on STL recordwise, and within 1.5 games of the Cubs for the division. Then if they take care business against the Reds while the Cards and Cubs battle each other, they'll still have a shot at both the 2nd WC and NL Central title going into that series in STL.

[Lathund]

Good comments across the board. I agree with the sentiments. The hitting approach late is lacking, big time. You have to second guess Coles at this point.

 

Stearns needs to really improve that pen. Drake, Torres, Hughes, and Barnes should all be replaced. Yes, that's a whopping four spots but we have cash.

 

It's a combination of both, late inning pitching, and lack of hitting both late and with RISP.

 

Santana has had a nice year and hit well but there's still meat on the bone for big improvement. All he needed was a sac fly there and he didn't approach it right. You could see it. Heck, a squeeze might have done it but he probably couldn't execute it.

 

Brinson and Phillips may add nice juice to the lineup.

 

And Braun needs to wake up from his slumber.

 

The problem with Brinson and Phillips is they are both in the mold of feast or famine, high K rate. Getting real real sick of it.

 

Brinson has ~20% strikeout rate over the last two years in the minors. While it's at close to 30% in the majors so far, that's in 55 rather sporadic PAs, so at this point I'd rely more on the minors numbers. After maybe 200 PAs or so in the majors I'll start to lean more on those numbers.

 

I'll grant you Phillips though. Again caution with the MLB numbers so far, due to the tiny sample size, but his numbers in the minors would suggest, in terms of BB% and K%, something in the mould of Santana. Strikes out a fair bit, but shows patience at the plate and will draw walks. Even if he find a lot of success I'd imagine the K% will remain above average.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't think a couple tough losses will dampen their spirits. They'll come out firing today. I'm very frustrated by the managerial decisions last night. Counsel played way too fast and loose with his chips yesterday and it cost us. If any of Villar/Berry/Keon are available in the 9th to run, we win on the shaw single. Santana's at bat was just awful. Why is he trying for 4 runs when all we need is 1? Anything in play, anything! Make them make a play. Also frustrating is how many softly hit RBI's the cubs had early in the game. That's just bad luck though.

 

Today is a new day. I'll be at the game for this one, here's hoping we bounce back with a big win.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Counsel played his chips fine last night. Jeffress threw a pitch that ends the game 9/10 times, last night the guy hit it.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

While I do hear you on the Shaw single and think maybe Counsell waited a bit to pinch run for Walker, I'm just not sure anyone scores on that base hit. It was a rope, and the RF (Happ at that point, right?) fielded it with his momentum coming in. The throw was good, and I just don't see it without a superhuman jump. Maybe Byron Buxton or Billy Hamilton score on that play. Maybe. Even then, it's a risky send, one that would be sure to bring out the windmill Eddie talk.

 

On Santana, I'm with you. Worst part is, most of those pitches weren't really close to strikes.

[KeithStone53151]

Counsel played his chips fine last night. Jeffress threw a pitch that ends the game 9/10 times, last night the guy hit it.

 

I couldn't disagree more on how he played his chips. The squib hit was incredibly annoying, but Counsel played his chips like a fool. Berry pinch running in the 7th with sogard up was just plain silly. He was behind someone, he couldn't be used to steal anyways. Was he hoping Sogard would hit one in the gap...not likely? broxton pinch hitting for phillips was also dumb, phillips is the superior player and has fine splits against lefties, save broxton for running. And I'm not sure why Drake was allowed to face Bryant. It would have made more sense to use torres against the first 2 guys and drake against rizzo only(or keep Torres in if he gets the first 2 guys). Drake should never ever ever face a RH hitter, especially Bryant.

 

I get that Shaw hit a rope, maybe the runner is held. If we had other options on the bench, we could have had Perez PH for Santana in that spot in the 9th. Perez has been clutch and is a contact guy. Heck he could even safety squeeze and probably get the run home. I get there's a force, but with the infield in and Broxton/Berry/Villar on 3rd...I believe that person with a huge lead could get home faster than 3b could field a bunt and make a throw home.

 

Regardless of the what-ifs, clearly in this case counsel used all his chips way way way too early and it cost us.

[hurricanecrush]

There is no way anyone scores from 2nd on that play, it was hit so hard that any runner would have had to freeze to make sure it's down. Look at it again, Walker was barely at third and the catcher had the ball, I just don't see any way anyone would have scored on that.

 

The thing that is unfortunate is that the Pirates tied it on a chopper between the pitchers mound and home. The Cubs tied it on a infield single, a groundout and a "routine" ground ball hit to where the SS would normally play on a great pitch. And we can't score on a scorched single by Shaw.

 

We were two outs away from a one game lead in the WC and 1.5 games behind the Cubs. I think the'll bounce back though and still make a run for at least a WC.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He used his chips early because he wanted the game to end sooner. It was kind of a necessity given how taxed the bullpen is. And it worked. These were high percentage situations that the players choked in. I'm genuinely flabbergasted at how someone can pin last night on Counsell. The players should have ended that game about four separate times.

 

The Shaw hit is moot. Nobody in baseball scores on that play.

[KeithStone53151]

He used his chips early because he wanted the game to end sooner. It was kind of a necessity given how taxed the bullpen is. And it worked. These were high percentage situations that the players choked in. I'm genuinely flabbergasted at how someone can pin last night on Counsell. The players should have ended that game about four separate times.

 

The Shaw hit is moot. Nobody in baseball scores on that play.

 

Maybe not. And the players absolutely could and should have won the game. Using his players early cost us a better chance in the 9th and the 10th and didn't benefit us at all. The Berry pinch run had very little chance to provide any benefit. Broxton PH for phillips was slightly more understandable but again, Phillips is the superior player. And the Drake decision was terrible, I have no qualms about his bullpen usage prior to that.

 

And the guys that he generally uses are taxed, but we have many other arms in that bullpen. Literally every single other bullpen arm is a better option against bryant than Drake, except maybe wang. Williams, Torres, Hughes, heck even Guerra/Garza. The dude is awful awful against RH hitting, and Counsel knows it. Putting Drake in felt like a white flag.

[buckybrewer232]

The things I didn't agree with were pinch hitting Broxton for Phillips and allowing Drake to pitch to Bryant. Righties KILL Drake but Counsell allowed him to pitch to one of the best in the game.

 

I would've gone Hughes to start the inning, take your chances with him against Jay, have him face Bryant and then bring Drake in to face Rizzo. Jay most likely isn't going to hurt you like Bryant or Rizzo can.

 

I also think Counsell is too obsessed with clearing his bench to platoon when relievers come in, although he kept Thames in last night which worked. Seems like every 6th or 7th inning Counsell clears his bench by swapping Thames/Aguilar, Broxton/Phillips, Sogard/Perez/Arcia, Vogt/Pina. Then, Villar pinch hits for the pitcher. Only leaving hopeless bats like Bandy & Susac.

 

I get it for certain matchups, but I don't think it's necessary to do it for every one of those guys IMO. At least, please no more subbing Broxton for Phillips. He hits lefties just fine!

[Fear The Chorizo]

Last night's game isn't on Counsell - the combination of baseball bounces in the wrong locations (weak Cub hits scoring runs, loud Brewer outs or Shaw's line shot single preventing a run from scoring), and moreso the Brewers' inability to come through in multiple late inning situations with RISP with a big hit or run-producing play cost them. Santana's AB with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 9th was horrible - I think he may have gotten 1 actual strike in that AB and he wound up striking himself out.

 

I don't even care much about the move to bring Drake in to start the 10th - although leaving him in to face Bryant was silly when Counsell could've played righty lefty matchups with other relievers in the pen and still had Guerra/Garza for long late-inning relief had the game continued past 10 innings. Aside from that move, I thought Counsell did just fine with substitutions throughout the game - knowing that he was shorthanded in the pen due to key reliever overuse, he had to pull out all the stops to try and win the game in 9 innings.

 

At some point, the onus has to fall on the players and not the coaches to actually come through in crunch time. In big games, the offense seems to generate the least # of runs possible in various situations aside from hitting solo home runs. Shaw got unlucky with the line shot single in the 9th, but aside from that Braun, Shaw, and Santana have been awful in big situations lately - a team that expects to be a playoff contender can't have their 3-4-5 hitters provide nothing when key late season games are on the line. In that last Pirates loss, that combination left THIRTEEN runners on base. Last night it was NINE. Braun has stranded twelve of those runners by himself over these 2 losses. Never thought I'd say this, but I'd almost prefer seeing him get tonight's game off to get another lefty bat in the lineup against Lackey. I know it's not every time in every game, but it's disappointing nonetheless.

[3and2Fastball]

Would've liked to see a hitter like Nate Orf up and pinch hitting instead of Susac. You are in a playoff hunt and you have Susac pinch hitting in the clutch. There are better hitters in the organization you can utilize there. There is no need to have 4 catchers up right now.

[OnaBadger58]

Would've liked to see a hitter like Nate Orf up and pinch hitting instead of Susac. You are in a playoff hunt and you have Susac pinch hitting in the clutch. There are better hitters in the organization you can utilize there. There is no need to have 4 catchers up right now.

Agreed 100% with this. When you're in the playoff hunt, you need to call up anyone that could be a help to this team. If you're going do this platoon every night, call up a couple more positional players to cover yourself for days like Wednesday and Thursday. Susac (and Bandy) should not have any AB's this month.

[KeithStone53151]

Last night's game isn't on Counsell - the combination of baseball bounces in the wrong locations (weak Cub hits scoring runs, loud Brewer outs or Shaw's line shot single preventing a run from scoring), and moreso the Brewers' inability to come through in multiple late inning situations with RISP with a big hit or run-producing play cost them. Santana's AB with the bases loaded and 1 out in the 9th was horrible - I think he may have gotten 1 actual strike in that AB and he wound up striking himself out.

 

I don't even care much about the move to bring Drake in to start the 10th - although leaving him in to face Bryant was silly when Counsell could've played righty lefty matchups with other relievers in the pen and still had Guerra/Garza for long late-inning relief had the game continued past 10 innings. Aside from that move, I thought Counsell did just fine with substitutions throughout the game - knowing that he was shorthanded in the pen due to key reliever overuse, he had to pull out all the stops to try and win the game in 9 innings.

 

At some point, the onus has to fall on the players and not the coaches to actually come through in crunch time. In big games, the offense seems to generate the least # of runs possible in various situations aside from hitting solo home runs. Shaw got unlucky with the line shot single in the 9th, but aside from that Braun, Shaw, and Santana have been awful in big situations lately - a team that expects to be a playoff contender can't have their 3-4-5 hitters provide nothing when key late season games are on the line. In that last Pirates loss, that combination left THIRTEEN runners on base. Last night it was NINE. Braun has stranded twelve of those runners by himself over these 2 losses. Never thought I'd say this, but I'd almost prefer seeing him get tonight's game off to get another lefty bat in the lineup against Lackey. I know it's not every time in every game, but it's disappointing nonetheless.

 

You can say that about every game, the onus is on the players, bad bounce here, whatever. The manager should be putting the players in the best possible position to succeed, and Counsel did not do that yesterday...not by a long shot. This can in part be traced back to the pittsburgh series as well and that none of our top 3 relievers were available.

[Baldkin]

 

You can say that about every game, the onus is on the players, bad bounce here, whatever. The manager should be putting the players in the best possible position to succeed, and Counsel did not do that yesterday...not by a long shot. This can in part be traced back to the pittsburgh series as well and that none of our top 3 relievers were available.

 

And if they win 8-2 yesterday, and win a nail biter in Pittsburgh, do you give Counsell credit for using his best pitchers to win the day, instead of resting them with an unknown outcome the next game?

 

This is a 12 game season. You play the cards you're dealt. You cannot play for tomorrow. You cannot play for extra innings when you're LOSING in the 7th inning. You put your team in the best position to succeed.